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5561  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitfury: "16nm... sales to public start shortly" on: May 10, 2016, 06:54:13 AM
Anyone notice that hashrate has started climbing fairly fast again, after almost a month of near-flat?

 Smells a bit of SOMEONE bringing some new gear online somewhere.....
5562  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: How will this change the world of mining?? GTX 1080 / 1070 on: May 10, 2016, 06:51:47 AM

this does not mean that they will be not faster by 50% in other algo, there is not only ethereum out there

edit, some research lead to a 42% on the access memory, so this is more than 30MH/s versus a 970(22MH/s) with a consumption of 120w versus 160w

so 40% increase in hash and 25% decrese in consumption, very good for me, they will be surely worth 50% more the price

 Actual numbers on both sides are likely lower (well, will be for the 10x0) - you're quoting TDP figures but real world Ethereum mining seems to run somewhat under max TDP on my current 9x0 cards (more so on the 960s, which don't seem to be very efficient at Ethereum than on the 950s that hash almost as fast).

 Still should be a noticeable power usage drop AND should be at least a small speed increase.

 I suspect there might be a small "premium" on the pricing initially, but that should ramp down fairly quickly. Unfortunately, 9xx pricing doesn't seem to have moved yet - guess there's too much stuff in the channel still, and possibly some folks haven't HEARD about the 10x0 being due so soon yet.



 PoS date seems to still be up in the air, the issue at this point is the difficulty rampup, apparently at least in part due to more and more folks finding out about Ethereum and pointing rigs at it. I hesitate to wonder what that would be like if it had a 32-bit version, though the limit on required RAM on your vidcard provides SOME limitations (I'd love to point my 7750s at Ethereum, even if they only managed 3-5 MH/s they're CHEAP cards to run).

5563  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Cheap electricity for mining Bitcoin on: May 10, 2016, 06:35:42 AM
If your 20,000 USD rig consumes 6,000 W of electricity, it would cost you only 860 USD per month total to host it with me.

 Which works out to a hair under 20 cents/KWH which is way expensively high.
 Too many already existing hosting centers with existing GOOD REPUTATIONS that will host for a third or so of that.

5564  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Antminer S8 ? on: May 10, 2016, 06:29:01 AM
In theory, if you set up a miner with a buck setup to run a string of the new BitFury chips, it COULD hit the mystical 100w/TH mark - but I suspect most miners using it will opt for fewer chips = higher hashrate per chip = lower $/hash at the cost of efficiency.

 Same reason you don't see the BM1585 (or any other mining chip Bitmain made) getting close to IT'S max efficiency - fewer chips = lower cost per TH = bigger performance = more folks WANT the miner even if it's not max on efficiency (which is what killed Spondoolies, they made GOOD tuneable miners but too many folks wanted low cost/MH).
5565  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Antminer S8 ? on: May 09, 2016, 05:35:42 AM

Dragon A2's were beasts I'm not knocking them I know some data centers they were put on a ton of stress... and lived.  They were really good miners, only thing they lacked was a nice PSU.  Assuming LKETC a2 eventually a PSU dying was kinda common.


 Yeah, I've had one PS die already (no idea how old the miner was, used unit from Zoomhash PS died on first turning - they DID compensate me for it, bit of miscommunication issues but no real hassle).
 I find a Seasonic X1250 is a VERY VERY good fit in place of the stock unit - it's a bit longer, but the fan lines up with the hole in the side of the case well and the modular connectors you NEED to put in have enough clearance to work well.
 EVGA 1300 G2 does NOT fit well (it's a little longer than the X1250), the fan hole doesn't line up nearly as well *AND* clearances on the cables are so bloody tight you pretty much would have to move the controller board to avoid shorting stuff out from cables rubbing against sharp things pretty quickly.

 Both have PLENTY of power to run A2 Mega Terminator units as a nicely high overclock.



 I don't think an S9 by July is likely - but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, and it's certainly not impossible (Bitmain DID announce they were working on their next-gen chip at the same time as they released the S7 after all).

5566  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: How will this change the world of mining?? GTX 1080 / 1070 on: May 09, 2016, 05:27:05 AM
My current planning is to build a new GTX970 rig (triple or quad, not sure yet, finding a GOOD triple-card motherboard is proving impossible as NOBODY wants to put slots in SANE places to allow for all 3 cards to get cooling air).

 I'll try it on Ethereum just to see, but it's not INTENDED to be an Ethereum miner except perhaps as a short-term "make back a little of the cost to build it" idea before I put it into it's REAL intended usage (similar to my existing triple GTX950 and double GTX960 rigs, but they'll have a couple months longer of mining before I switch them).


What I'm going to be REAL curious to see is what AMD comes up with on their top-end ZEN APUs for an on-chip GPU. Given the amount of shrink 14nm FinFet allows over their existing process, I would be supprised at less than 1024 stream units, and wouldn't be shocked at 1500ish...

 ... DESPITE announced plans to make the first Zen APUs at least octocore.


 With the clock rate increases the new process allows, I expect AMD to at least match NVidia's 30-40% clock rate jump on their next-gen gear - GPUs as well as CPUs/APUs - pretty much across the board, even on the first gen at the new node.



 Picture this for AMD's next "flagship" product. 6144 Stream units. Base clock around 1400 Mhz, boost more like 1600. Minor increases in IPU efficiency from already-announced "tweeks" to the architecture adding another 5-10% performance. TDP 20-40% lower than a Nano.

 Then they build the "dual" version, having to downclock 5% or so to avoid overheating.

 Remember, you read it here first!



 Yes, 2016 and 2017 look to be VERY interesting times for new hardware in the cryptocoin mining arena.
5567  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: ethminer-0.9.41-genoil-1.0.7 on: May 08, 2016, 08:25:04 AM
 GTX 1080 is GDDR 5x, has a noticeable increase in memory bandwidth. 1070 is GDDR5 at similar bandwidth to the 980ti from what I've seen.

 I'd guess 40% faster just from the increase in clock rate for either.

 Probably 30-50% lower power consumption, at a guess.

 I'd guess don't bother with the GTX 1080, for whatever reason the Nvidia cards scale up even worse than AMD cards (the Nano in theory should kick serious hashrate on Ethereum, but in fact it's barely if any better then the R9 380).


 It's not a question of Etherminer supporting them, the question is "when will NVidia drivers get updated to support them" (answer - should be by the time the cards are released).



 I'm planning to build a multi-970 machine in June, not for Ethereum-specific but I'll probably try mining on it to see how well they do. I just wish I could find a SANE motherboard with 16x slots at positions 1/4/7 instead of the stupid common 2/5/7 spacing MOST 3-slot motherboards have - but as cool as these cards are supposed to run I might go 4x with one of the 1/3/5/7 MBs around (Biostar "Racer", MSI and ASUS and I think Gigabyte have same config on slots on at least one MB each and I'm not real fond of Biostar or the fancy wastage on fancy LED lights with the Racer boards).

 I DID finally find a few viable cases for such a build, and a couple of them are even somewhat affordable - but I'm sure I'll want to install some REAL fans, not the junk low-flow "quiet" wastage most case makers put in their boxes.



 Anyone else notice that the GTX 1080 reference designs are only using a SINGLE 8-pin PCI-E power connector?
 I think I saw 180 watts TDP mentioned somewhere too, but not sure if that was the 1080 or the 1070....

5568  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Best GPU's For Mining? on: May 08, 2016, 08:09:39 AM
 Uh, no. Release date on the GTX 1080 is late May (25th? I forget offhand) and GTX 1070 on June 10th (I HATE that delay between the 2).

From the benchmarks I've seen to date, the GTX 1070 should be a little faster than the GTX 980ti, the GTX 1080 30-40% faster than that - BUT they need some architecture changes that might not have happened for some of that to translate to Ethereum mining.
 The increased clock rates should translate directly which would make them at least 40% faster.
 The move to a new node appears to be most of the reason they're also a LOT lower power consumption despite their significant performance jump.

 
 For reference, my GTX950s hash at almost the SAME rate as my GTX960s (the 960s are right about 10% faster) at essentially identical clocks, even though the 960s have a LOT more CUDA units and more memory.


 Folks that use NVidia cards where they are efficient (they're not real efficient on Ethereum for some reason, possibly for similar reasons to why a Nano doesn't even come close to scaling vs lower-end AMD cards on Ethereum when factoring Stream units x clock rate) should find the new 10xx cards kick some serious numbers for relatively low power usage.
5569  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: How will this change the world of mining?? GTX 1080 / 1070 on: May 08, 2016, 07:55:59 AM
More like 40% more speed at half the power of current NVidia cards used in mining, from the early benchmarks I've been seeing, *IF* their mining potential matches their increased clockrate.

 Have to see if the changes to the archetecture make them more efficient on some coins that current higher-end NVidia cards do NOT mine efficiently on like Ethereum.

5570  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BEST COMPUTERS FOR BTC MINING on: May 08, 2016, 07:53:09 AM
There are quite a few coins that are profitable to GPU mine - Ethereum is probably the leader right now, but that's subject to change.

 I am wondering how well the GTX1070 and GTX1080 will do on it - if the 1070 can just MATCH the best AMD cards, it's power efficiency will kick some serious ...


 I also suspect those cards might put a bit of hurt into X11 ASIC folks, though I'm pretty sure the ASIC stuff will still be more efficient - just not by as wide a margin over current GPUs.
5571  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Ethereum mining still profitable? on: May 08, 2016, 07:38:56 AM
Gonna be interesting to see how well the GTX 1070 and 1080 mine Ethereum.

 I just wish they were releasing them at the same time - the extra 2 week or so wait for the 1070 is gonna su..... er, be irritating.



 Also going to be interesting how soon and how far pricing on the higher end GTX 9xx series tanks, especially the 970/980/980ti and the Titan....

5572  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Ethereum mining still profitable? on: May 06, 2016, 06:51:40 AM
Nanos aren't all that efficient at mining Ethereum - probably for similar reasons anything much past the R9 280/380 aren't either.

 They're OK on a hash/W basis but pretty bad on a hash/$ basis - R9 280 / R9 280x / R9 380 are all a TON better on hash/$ while being competative on hash/W.

 My triple GTX950 soaks a little under 350 watts to do a bit over 30 MH/s - but that's with an A10-7860k running Prime95 on all 4 CPUs *AND* dnetc RC-5 on the GPU (it doesn't have enough memory to mine with) so if I went to a more efficient build I could get that under 300 watts without trying hard.



 AMD cards are definitely the way to go for Ethereum on a Hash/$ basis, but Nvidia Maxwell cards (other than the 750Ti, not enough memory) are pretty competative on Hash/W basis despite being way down on hashrate vs "comparable" AMD cards.



 Only reason I went Nvidia on the 2 machines I have mining Ethereum is that the ORIGINAL plan for those machines was FAH - where Nvidia DOES blow AMD out of the water (a GTX970 is capable of better PPD per every comparison I've seen to ANYTHING AMD has out currently except the dual Fury card and MAYBE the Nano/Fury - for LESS power usage).
 
AMD on the other hand blows Nvidia off the bloody PLANET on RC5 work, my ancient HD7870 outhashes my GTX970s by about 15% when both are not OC despite being a 5+ year OLDER design and having the same number of Stream units as the 970s have CUDA units - keep in mind that AMD cards have 1.5-2X the Stream units vs the "comparable" NVidia card.
5573  Economy / Speculation / Re: How many "halving" threads will there be before we get to the halving? on: May 06, 2016, 06:36:06 AM
Too many - but that's a sucker bet as there are ALREADY too many.

 8-O
5574  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: AntMiner S7 > BW 14 nm? on: May 06, 2016, 06:30:56 AM
The B-Eleven based on it's published specs falls more-or-less in the same efficiency range as the S7 - DEPENDS a lot on which S7 batch though, some are a hair more efficient some are a hair less.

 The big difference is that the S7 is based on the BM1385 FULL CUSTOM 28nm optimised design, the B-Eleven uses the LK-1401 which is NOT a full custom design (their LK-1402 next-gen chip IS supposed to be full-custom with specs competative to the announced Bitfury 14nm chip).


 At your electric cost, you might want to consider Litecoin mining for the short term - if you can get some used A2/Alcheminer/Titan hardware cheap enough. Innosilicon's announced A4 miner might make that idea kinda iffy though, *IF* they actually get the miners shipping by July as they have said they will (Innosilicon has a pretty good track record that way, though it's not their norm to pre-announce stuff before it's actually ready to ship).

 It's probably too late to get into Ethereum, unless you already have most of the hardware on hand or can get used pieces VERY cheap. Diff is rising pretty fast, rewards are dropping, it's profitable for now but making RoI on new gear is looking decidedly iffy.


 Even the next-gen Bitcoin miners might be marginal with your electric cost - it's not HIGH, but it's definitely not cheap. We don't have enough information on cost of miners or miner-level efficiency to even make an informed guess at this point.


5575  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: After the halving will bitcoin mining become not viable? on: May 06, 2016, 06:21:53 AM
The existance of halfings at an estimated every 4 year interval (with some variation depending on hashrate variance) was part of the ORIGINAL Bitcoin announcement, years ago.
 This will be the SECOND Bitcoin halfing, not the first - and there's no suprise involved, and no it's not enjoyable to see the income drop but it's been VERY LONG TIME anticipated and expected.
 There was *NO* "sudden announcement" - this is VERY OLD LONG KNOWN NEWS, just because YOU didn't know about it doesn't mean it's new or sudden.


 Just bad timing that the S7 generation showed up when it did, but folks bought them ANYWAY knowing the halfing was comming - the huge hashrate runup was NOT widely anticipated though, and made them unable to achieve RoI for most folks long before the halfing would have done so for many folks anyway.


 My own calculations at MY electric rate (around 8c/kwh most of the year) and as I recall I was initially figuring a 4% rate of diff increase per increase came up with "this thing MIGHT break even. Barely. Forget ROI on the power supplies" even on the initial date of it's release - and every calc I've done SINCE then showed the situation being WORSE, which makes me happy I ignored that generation.

 The NEXT generation though, coupled with my planned move to a land of VERY VERY cheap electric, should make the NEXT generation of Bitcoin miners viable for me.



 Then there's the wild cards - altcoin mining options.
 Litecoin in particular actually has gotten MORE profitable from the timeframe about 2 months before it's halfing last summer (when it was running about $1 per coin) to now (it's been consistantly over $3 for about a YEAR now, got there just before it's halfing and has stayed, even pushing $4 occasionally the last couple months).

 I don't anticipate that happening to Bitcoin, which is a MUCH larger ecosystem, but I do anticipate SOME price increase between now and the halfing, probably with a little fallback afterwards.


 The most recent Bitcoin "wild card" was around Novemberish last year, when the Chinese exchanges suddenly started being "able to accept fiat payments" again - and tons of Chinese cash poured in and more-or-less doubled the price of Bitcoin over the course of a couple weeks, which price has since slipped back down a bit but is STILL right around double what is was last summer - and made up for most of the climb in difficulty (and for a while MORE than made up for it) since Bitmain started shipping the S7.
 I dont' anticipate anything like THAT happening again - but one never knows when the next major news that directly affects Bitcoin will happen to push the price around....

5576  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need help with mining rigs on: May 06, 2016, 06:08:06 AM
X11 is still GPU viable (DASH) - for now - if you have an efficient rig (NVidea and AMD both do well on X11 mining, NVidia wins for now due to lower power usage but it's close, and the next-gen of both should make it interesting).
5577  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Mining Hardware Comparison on: May 06, 2016, 06:06:39 AM
My pair of 970s are running well under that 160 watts mining Ethereium - complete system with an A10-5700 and 2 of those cards is only around 300 watts (yeah, the A10 is overkill but I already HAD the system and it's 2-slot mATH motherboard up and running).

 I'd GUESS they're pulling 100-120 watts or so, though they're only pulling about 20.5Mh/s

 My triple GTX950 system pulls a bit over 30MH/s on a TOTAL consumption of under 350 watts (that's an A10-8760K that's running Prime95 on the CPUs, Dnet on the GPU, as well as the Nvidias themselves - guessing 80-90 watts each for the cards at most).


 I do wish I could get my HD 7870 to do Ethereum though - but it keeps hanging on the "can't load the full core" part then the miner just SITS there, left it on overnight once and it still didn't go - same system with one of the GTX970s and NVidea drivers instead of fglrx ran fine, abet it took forever generating the first couple DAG files (Semperon 3000 with 1 Gig ram, yeah it's kinda funny the vid cards have twice the ram the SYSTEM does).
 I might try it on a "bigger" system at some point to see if the hangup is the limits of the CPU/system ram not the GPU - I've got a 5050e 2Gig system I'm in process of shutting down MPrime on with plans to put some sort of vidcards in it to mine with instead.

 For now, the poor 7870 folds for Curecoin.....
5578  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Internet to SP30 via laptop on: May 05, 2016, 07:08:26 AM
Undervolt so you're not tripping breakers 'till you get a more permanent solution in place?
I seem to recall the SP30 is supposed to be similar to the SP20 on voltage setting configurability....
5579  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Mining Hardware Comparison on: May 04, 2016, 07:56:59 AM
The NVidia maxwll cards can't match the hashrate of AMD cards - but they're more power-efficient, on a hash/W basis they actually don't fare too badly (except the 750ti which doesn't have enough RAM to work well IF at all on Ethereum).

 On a hash/$ basis they .... well, get them used they might be in the same ballpark as the USED AMD cards a lot of folks keep talking about buying.

5580  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: Need help with mining rigs on: May 04, 2016, 07:34:46 AM
Just need a good case to handle the airflow needed to deal with the heat.

 After some digging, I DID find a few "designed to mount 4 dual-slot card" cases, ALL of which seem to be at least somewhat serious about the capability to move massive amounts of air through them.

 I even went to through the process of putting together a planned buy for a new 4-card rig - but then ran across a couple articles about Pascal and Polaris, and decided to put off buying ANYTHING for a couple months as the first of the next-gen GPU cards are being talked about as available sometime this summer (NVidia has specifically stated "before back to school season" which specifies August timeframe at the LATEST for their first Pascal releases).

(Edit - late May for the GTX1080 and June 10 for the GTX-1070 - I'm now VERY HAPPY I decided to wait!)

 Since both NVidia AND AMD are finally going to the 14/16nm process node this generation, we should see some killer improvement in efficiency from both, and likely some significant increases in performance as well.



 As far as my existing cards go - the FIRST thing I did with EVGA PrecisionX was to DROP the target temp, make it PRIORITY, and kick the fan profiles up to something sensible (100% by 75C, among other things - their STOCK profile was a pathetic joke that seems to be intended to deliberately overheat the cards if they're used 24/7 for anything seriously demanding).
 There's a REASON I'm to the point "ball bearing fans or I won't even LOOK at your stuff".



 On the good news side - figured out my HD 7870 is actually fine, it just had issues 'cause the power supply I was trying to run it on was flaky. It's pumping 1050Mhz quite comfortably the last week running on one of my Seasonic X1250s. Currently building up another Xubuntu64 with AMD drivers right now in the hopes of getting it running Ethereum - if that won't work, worst case I'll start folding with it for now (the Nvidia version I have on one of the other machines wouldn't clone properly, think it was a conflict with the Nvidia drivers not letting the AMD card work right).

 (Edit - hashing Ethereum at a little over 12Mh with 1200/1250 clock the last 2 days, comfortably cool despite yesterday getting WARM. VERY VERY picky about the memory clock - higher gets WORSE fast, lower gets WORSE fairly fast - not picky about cpu clock other than higher = faster).

 Sadly, the 7850 I have appears to have been damaged after all when that power supply got flaky, or *IT* flaked out badly and damaged the PS when it did. Still runs, but anything over about 550Mhz and it's crash city. Only a 1 Gig card though, so it's happy running dnetc probably for the rest of it's life.
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