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321  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Anyone for backgammon? on: July 25, 2010, 12:51:34 AM
Hmm, fibs.com says winfibs is no longer available for download.

try 3d fibs ... it's good!
322  Economy / Marketplace / Re: BitCoin Merchant Service on: July 24, 2010, 04:04:09 PM
Looks very cool.

Im at the checkout ... should I go further?
323  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There might be another bitcoin bubble.... on: July 24, 2010, 03:56:03 PM
Price has stayed very consistent for the last two weeks since the surge in demand.
Not really. The price is slowly but steadily dropping. Production costs have increased, but there's more than enough existing supply to meet demand. It'll take quite a while for demand to outstrip existing supply, but if and when it does, the price should start to rise back up toward the cost of production.

I think production value is only one price driver.

Here's my other suggestions:

What's the value?

+ Utility of a digital coinage system
+ Utility of zero cost transactions
+ Intangible Brand value
+ Collector item value
+ Community value / Network effect
+ Mind share of paradigm / habit forming
+ Philanthropy / Altruistic dividends
I agree that those are the qualities which give the currency value, but production cost provides somewhat of a loose fitting price cap. The current price is much higher than the production cost was for a long time, so a lot of people are selling their previously generated bitcoins at a profit. Once they slow down or run out of bitcoins to sell, the price will start to go up again. But I honestly have no idea how long that will take.

I'd argue that production costs MORE than electricity / CPU.  It's also the work needed to set things up ... time taken to create ... time spent learning how to do things ... time spent watching, time taken to trade etc ... these things are not frictionless and that I think makes the cap higher, particularly as we dont have huge mass producers all over the place...

EDIT: I dont see much wrong with a fair value of $1 USD for each bitcoin ...
324  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: There might be another bitcoin bubble.... on: July 24, 2010, 03:37:42 PM
Price has stayed very consistent for the last two weeks since the surge in demand.
Not really. The price is slowly but steadily dropping. Production costs have increased, but there's more than enough existing supply to meet demand. It'll take quite a while for demand to outstrip existing supply, but if and when it does, the price should start to rise back up toward the cost of production.

I think production value is only one price driver.

Here's my other suggestions:

What's the value?

+ Utility of a digital coinage system
+ Utility of zero cost transactions
+ Intangible Brand value
+ Collector item value
+ Community value / Network effect
+ Mind share of paradigm / habit forming
+ Philanthropy / Altruistic dividends

 
325  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoins and Philanthropy on: July 24, 2010, 12:38:44 PM
If a philanthropist wants to give away bitcoins to the bitcoin community, I'd be happy to reset the Bitcoin Faucet rules to whatever the philanthropist would like.

Could be:  donate 10,000 Bitcoins and then have the Faucet distribute 10 per IP address (regardless of whether or not they got coins from the Faucet before) until they're gone.


I was thinking it would be neat to give away like .1% of available coins to any new IP address. As it is any donation that puts it over 500 just gets eaten quickly (maybe by people who do IP magic).

You could make a lottery system.  Dontators donate at random to an address.
326  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Anyone for backgammon? on: July 24, 2010, 10:43:48 AM
I use javafibs on linux, but winfibs is good on windows

Would love to play ... let's see if we can hook up! Smiley

I'd still like to do this sometime. I've played some games though and it's gotten stuck between moves. What client should I use?
327  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoins and Philanthropy on: July 23, 2010, 04:38:05 PM
Although I would love to sell all by bitcoins for $100 each, putting in a very high bid would be an inefficient investment. It would be much more beneficial if they always bid a little high and asked a little low. It would eventually result in a very low spread and high confidence in the value of bitcoins. The price of bitcoins is not what's important, it's the confidence in knowing you'll be able to convert currency in and out of bitcoins with as little loss as possible and at as steady a price as possible.

It's not about buying coins.  You would put the coins back into the system.  It's about altruism and supporting a community.  Think of it as a dividend to the community.

Let's say I am a billionaire and I want to give every bitcoin holder on average $100 ... there should be market mechanisms to do this.   And simply the *idea* someone may do this (I must say it's a tempting idea), will lead to upward price valuations of the coins ...
328  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoins and Philanthropy on: July 23, 2010, 04:19:34 PM
Ah, yea, that'd work. =)

Feel free to donate money Wink  Lemme know, I'll sell you every coin I have.

If you're gonna donate after you die, what have you got to lose? Smiley
329  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoins and Philanthropy on: July 23, 2010, 04:01:46 PM
How would that work?  How do you distribute money over all existing bitcoins? >_>

See my EDIT

Put a high priced bid (eg $100 per coin) into the market place and let it filter through ... first come first served ...
330  Economy / Economics / Bitcoins and Philanthropy on: July 23, 2010, 03:59:52 PM
Here's an idea.

Why dont philantropists donate money to the bitcoin community to support the efforts.

The money is divided equally among outstanding bitcoins, thereby increasing the average value.  (EDIT: In effect, you can just put a high priced bid into the market place, and let it filter through)

Simply the *possibility* of philanthropy would have an immediate market effect?

What about wealthy individuals that wish to bequeath some of their estate to bitcoins?
331  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Flood attack 0.00000001 BC on: July 23, 2010, 02:32:12 PM
Hi.

That pretty much ruins the possibility of using bitcoin for true micropayments. 

I do not see how it does that.  1 BTC will likely always be smaller than USD/EUR/etc, thus meaning that it can be used for micropayments.

Micropayment is less that 0.01 $, I suppose.
Having an (economically) effective implementation of micropayment system will affect the way current economics works.
For example, it may make the media producer's business unprofitable in some areas, I suppose.

So, the economics may be interested in payments with less that 0.001 $ volume and with more than millions transaction per day numbers.
But that system still does not exists Sad

You can do it if you have a system of micropayments with the CASH OUT in bitcoins.  That way most transactions will not go through the bitcoin system.
332  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: My idea: CBitPal on: July 23, 2010, 01:26:18 AM
The really interesting idea of a PayPal for Bitcoin (call it Bitpal) would be if a company were to come in and provide fraud insurance like PayPal currently does (hopefully less skewed towards the buyer). That way buyers could transact without trusting the seller. Bitpal would know both parties (somehow verify ID) and then offer to punish the seller and refund the buyer's money if the seller didn't deliver.

Bitcoin's strength is that it enables anonymous, irreversible transactions upon which it is possible to build other transaction types, including the more buyer-friendly reversible ones.

Bitpal could force the seller to keep coins on deposit for a certain amount of time, relaxing this requirement as they reached a higher and higher reputation. They would cover any losses above the amount they could recover from the seller. Sellers would gain rep for successful transactions and lose it for unsuccessful ones.

They would need a good system to ensure that neither the buyer nor the seller was lying about the transaction. Tracking numbers only help so much - the goods could have arrived damaged, and not all shipping services provide them. I've also envisioned a system where the seller ships items to a trusted party who checks them, sends pictures and description to both the buyer and the seller, and asks both parties if they wish to proceed. If so, they ship them to the buyer with a tracking number and optional insurance. If they arrive damaged and the buyer chose not to get insurance, they don't get their money back. If they chose to get insurance, then that claim is filed. It would double the cost and time of shipping, but would allow everyone involved to verify that the item shipped was correct and not a small pile of stones. Cheesy

Yes, combine with a global web of trust to get the best of both the anonymous and public web. 
333  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Nenolod, the guy that wants to prove Bitcoin doesn't work. on: July 23, 2010, 12:46:34 AM
my speculation is that he is going to use them to buy linden dollars, since that is something he mentioned that can currently be done.

i have approximately zero interest in buying L$.  you will see what i will do with the BTC i generated when I have something to demonstrate.

i stopped generating btc when difficulty hit 181.5, as i had enough BTC for what i needed.

Why not just generate lots of test bitcoins?  Surely that's cheaper? 
334  Economy / Marketplace / Re: FREE Microlotto / BingoLotto on: July 22, 2010, 06:55:11 PM
Ill take

Choice: lucky 13
Size: 1 fakecoin ( http://bitcoin.org/fakecoin )
335  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: My idea: CBitPal on: July 22, 2010, 06:09:52 PM
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and BitCoin, and I'm loving the concept so far!

I'm a software developer, particularly web based technologies, and I had a great idea. A system like PayPal but for BitCoin payments.

Before you start flaming (central authority), this system would have a shopping cart based system, an API like PayPal's and no transaction fees (except for the transaction fees by the BitCoin network). It would have a UDP API for game-based micropayments, too.

You might say; why not let the end-user use the BitCoin API? Well, some people may not have a 24/7 server where they can run the daemon (e.g. shared hosting), additionally, it would be super easy, wouldn't require any programming knowledge (unless they wanted to get advanced).

Does anyone else like this idea?

+1 love the idea ...
336  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Builds for Ubuntu? on: July 22, 2010, 04:34:29 PM
Well, I couldn't find any good directions on how to package a .deb for a ppa, but I haven't given up hope yet.  Anyone who can throw some documentation my way would be awesome.  Right now I'm trying a different strategy.

I run ubuntu on my desktop maybe I can help ...

EDIT: first time I've tried it, but I made a launch pad project here: https://launchpad.net/bitcoin  hopefully we can work out how to do ppa etc. 
337  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Testing the waters on: July 22, 2010, 01:53:50 PM
I would do the drawing as follows:
  • Go to random.org and generate the random number(s) between 0 and n based on a "persistent identifier". A good identifier to use would be a newly generated bitcoin address that has not been used yet.
  • Post the SHA-256 hash of the identifier on the forum to commit to the number(s)
  • Publish the guesses. This way, people can see if all guesses have been exhausted. This prevents me from claiming no-one won.
  • Announce the winner and publish the identifier used to generate the number(s), so everyone can verify the winning number(s).

This is a very good solution.  I was looking around on random.org, but I hadn't thought it all the way through.  Would you be interested in buying into a lottery like this?  It's interesting, because it doesn't reward buying a bunch of guesses at once (each one gives diminishing returns, because you're putting more money into the pot) and the longer it goes on (maybe capped to a week, and whoever's closest after a week wins) the more profitable it would be, because there'd be less choices, thus more chances for winning.  It's almost like a Bingo lottery. =P

Looks very cool!

Maybe we can test out the coin flip?
338  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Testing the waters on: July 22, 2010, 08:48:28 AM
I was considering starting something like a "real time lotto", but wanted to probe the community first.

How would everyone here feel about a lotto that works as following:

I, or some third party, would choose a random number and keep it a secret, and put several bitcoins into the pot to get things going.
People begin to guess numbers at 1btc each guess.  Each bitcoin goes into the pot.
This continues until someone guesses the number, at which point 3 things happen:
80% (or some other number, it's up to how people react) of the pot goes to the winner.
1% goes to me (very modest, I should say)
19% stays in the pot to get it started for the next one, and a random number is chosen again.

This could be automated, as a (potentially) very fast paced lottery.

So:  
What numbers should I use above, or are the values I've chosen reasonable?
Would you prefer the "already guessed" numbers be shown?  Hidden?  Shown after they've been guessed multiple times?
Any other ideas/suggestions?

What about the following:

Have a lottery for N people (this can be varied from 2 to 100 -- maybe start with 2 for fun)

Each enters 1 BTC and chooses one of the remaining numbers from 1 to N.

Once N people are hit, take a timestamp.  Then run that timestamp as a seed in a random number generator.

This picks the winner.

I'd suggest to start with all funds returned to participants at parity because:

1. legal in most US states
2. fun to get things going ...

Later on you can add a rake, bonus system, jackpot etc, like poker sites do.
339  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Anyone for backgammon? on: July 22, 2010, 08:23:01 AM
I'll try, I just downloaded realfibs. My name is FreeMoney.

edit: just realized it's been two hours since you posted, let me know if you're still here.

Cool!

Just back ... send a reply or message me on #irc  (melvster)
340  Economy / Marketplace / Anyone for backgammon? on: July 22, 2010, 04:54:09 AM
Does anyone want to play a game of backgammon for bitcoins?

Match Length: 1 pt
Server: fibs.com
Stake: 2 BTC

Would love to give this a try if anyone wants to play!
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