Bitcoin Forum
May 02, 2024, 08:30:31 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 [143] 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 »
2841  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Earn 131BTC or 1BTC for getting shops/organisations to accept Bitcoin! on: June 12, 2011, 01:33:15 PM
Tracable?  I'm pretty sure its RUN by the government.  I think we're all getting paid BTC to hash out Bin Laden's secret computer porn stash or whatever the fuck right now.  Who else would be interested in computing power better than the top 500 supercomputers combined?
I'm not sure how sarcastic this is... But you do know that the Bitcoin client and the mining programs are open source, and you can look at it to see what they're doing? And that they do exactly what they claim - Hashing block headers to provide proof-of-work for verifying a specific Bitcoin transaction timeline?
2842  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Optimal pool abuse strategy. Proofs and countermeasures on: June 12, 2011, 01:24:47 PM
Your payout from a pool is completely independent of the blocks found outside the pool, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
2843  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Optimal pool abuse strategy. Proofs and countermeasures on: June 12, 2011, 05:41:26 AM
Is that over simplifying?
Yes. Cheating depends on the time spent on each round, not on the pool at large. By the way, there are solutions, but most people don't understand the problem well enough to want to use them.

same question i asked.
https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9928.0
moral of the story? lrn2 search
Moral of the story, give the man an answer, I'm trying for 3 days to understand this, why can't anyone explain practically how it works. On that topic there's a guy that claims 30% increased performance by pool hopping. And then again he only claims 3.5% effective gains in reward in a later post. He even said he could abuse slush's pool (on which btw, I rarely get shares in the 2 minutes rounds, and if I disconnect it's usually during those 2 hours rounds, definitely pegged against me but not this guy for some reason). I suppose his advantage is he knows exactly which pool finds a block every time a block is found, thus he can get a piece of each round, even if it's crumbs.

What I still don't understand, how is it he can get a higher reward during a round than what effort he has put into the round? If nobody can explain, nobody really understands, right? Or I'm very very stupid that I can't understand the theory without a practical example, right?
But we have already explained practically how to do it. Mine for the proportional pool until the number of shares in the current round is 43.5% of the difficulty, after that mine solo (or score-based) until the next round. You can use the time since round start as a proxy. And if you don't know when the round started you can try to estimate it.

It you submit 100 shares, the payout you get depends on the length of the round. If it's 1000 you get 10% of the block, if 10000 you get 1%. The length of the round is a random variable not known in advance. However, its conditional expectation depends on how long it's been already. If the round is fresh the expected length is equal to the difficulty. If the round has already been going on for twice the difficulty, the expected length of the round is thrice the difficulty. Thus your expected payout per share submitted will be less if the current round is old. And as Raulo explains in his paper, 43.5% of the difficulty is the point at which the expected payout per share becomes less than solo/score-based.
2844  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Optimal pool abuse strategy. Proofs and countermeasures on: June 10, 2011, 02:16:11 PM
43.5% of expected time to complete a block with the current hash rate.
Actually that's just an approximation, which doesn't take into account changes in hashrate etc.
2845  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Optimal pool abuse strategy. Proofs and countermeasures on: June 10, 2011, 01:55:08 PM
No, he will always mine for the pool with the least shares in the current round.
Ok. That's like having two miners and increasing load on the one with less submissions so they equal up... I don't see the bad thing in this. If he pushes to a single pool all his shares, or pushes 50% to a pool and another 50% to another pool, his reward should be the same in all cases.
The less shares in the current round in a proportional pool, the greater the expected reward per share submitted. Consider also the examples I gave in this comment. The bad thing is that hoppers get too much reward for their contribution to the pool (and to the Bitcoin network at large), while honest miners get too little.

If all proportional pools are >43.5% he will mine for a score-based pool.
Proportional pools are > 43.5% what? I don't understand what is the percentage of.
This means that for every proportional pool, the number of shares in its current round is more than 43.5% of the current difficulty.
2846  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Continuum Mining Pool: No fees; Optional PPS; Client uptime monitoring on: June 10, 2011, 07:58:23 AM
Can you add functionality to create and delete monitors to the website?
Any news about this?
Oh sorry, I didn't see that post. Yeah, that is trivial. Will do.
Great, thanks.
2847  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Continuum Mining Pool: No fees; Optional PPS; Client uptime monitoring on: June 10, 2011, 05:15:02 AM
Can you add functionality to create and delete monitors to the website?
Any news about this?
2848  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Optimal pool abuse strategy. Proofs and countermeasures on: June 10, 2011, 04:35:53 AM
Given 2 blocks, and an ability to generate 100 shares per block, and two pools, a pool hopper will try to jump the pool after each share, right?
No, he will always mine for the pool with the least shares in the current round. If all proportional pools are >43.5% he will mine for a score-based pool.
2849  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [FAQ] Is BitCoin a Ponzi or pyramid scheme? (Newbie-Friendly) on: June 09, 2011, 04:03:42 AM
= What file do I need to back up?
wallet.dat

= Where is and how do I find that file?
That depends on which operating system you use, but basically it's where the OS keeps application data, in the folder for the Bitcoin application. It will probably be easiest to let the OS search for the file wallet.dat

= I currently back up my most important data on a USB key. IS that good enough?
It's better than nothing. But if you have serious amounts of bitcoins you'll want to have multiple backups in several locations. The backup must be relatively recent, so you should update it every week or so (at least some of them). And you'll also want to take precautions against theft, not just loss.

= What is RAID?
You don't need to know.

= I have to assume that JungleDisk is an online backup system I have to sign up for, right?
AFAIK, yes.

= How do I create a new bitcoin instance?
This just means installing Bitcoin on the new computer, which will automatically create a new wallet file. It will have a receiving address to which you can send coins from the old computer.

I know, I know but this IS a newbie board, right? Thanks for bearing with me.
Yes, but since this thread is for one particular topic, if you have additional questions you should probably go to http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?board=4.0 and click on "new topic" to start a new thread.
2850  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: New cheat-proof mining pool scoring method on: June 09, 2011, 03:51:49 AM
Quote
Quote
0.001%(or less) fee!
If you use f=0, c=0.001 then it's not 0.001% fee, it's 0.1% fee. And it's the average - on any round it can be much higher. You can also consider using negative f to make the expected fee 0.
so using
$c = 0.001;
$f = (-$c)/(1-$c);
should result .1%? or should that be closer to 0?
Is there a way to get to 0% without possible losses?
With these parameters the expected fee is 0, and for any round and it can be as low as -0.1001% (negative) or as high as 100%.
There's no way to have expected fee of 0% without a risk of losing out on a round. Note that the losses will be very small though.
2851  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: New cheat-proof mining pool scoring method on: June 08, 2011, 08:04:01 PM
using (1-rd.f)*(1-rd.c)*p*rd.b*sum(exp(lscore-lastlscore)) to calculate an estimated earning, I'm getting wildly incorrect results.

For example my account says 11.x, when I run the full round calc it's closer to 6.

Additionally, the sum of estimates is >88, when it should be < 50.

I'm looking at a round with ~1mil shares.
I should emphasize that mid-round estimates are fairly meaningless. It is always almost certain that round end will be far enough in the future that all current shares will be worthless. In particular, calculating the expected reward for already existing shares will be close to 0, while calculating the reward if the round ended now will be much higher.

However, the numbers you write might indicate a problem with the calculation. Please post all the values involved, as well as the lscore values of the last few shares - both in general and for the particular worker.

Also, in your thread you say

Quote
0.001%(or less) fee!
If you use f=0, c=0.001 then it's not 0.001% fee, it's 0.1% fee. And it's the average - on any round it can be much higher. You can also consider using negative f to make the expected fee 0.

Quote
So, if you're not trying to pool-hop, you will be paid slightly more than those who are.
Those not trying to pool-hop will, in expectation, earn exactly as much as those who are, per share submitted.
2852  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: New cheat-proof mining pool scoring method on: June 07, 2011, 03:45:30 PM
I'm getting close Cheesy

seems like r^i is huge! even a 53digit double gets rounded eventually.
You'll need to use either periodic rescaling or logarithmic scale, as discussed in this thread.

I'm going for logarithmic, since the other seems hackish.

So, I'm close...... it looks like max is the previous row lscore value, is that right?
Yes. The exact value used for max doesn't matter, as long as it's used consistently and it's about the right size. Its role in the calculation is just to shift the scale to a reasonable location to avoid under/over flowing the exp.
2853  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there really a limited supply of bitcoins? on: June 07, 2011, 11:31:28 AM
I'm all with you that some guys getting rich is no reason to stop this experiment as this applies to any currency. Still I dream of my version that simply has a strong incentive to give away coins rather than to hoard them.
This also prevents the exchange rate from fluctuating like crazy as it evenly distributes coins to all citizens on the long run rather than having the potential to see all coins accumulate in 5% of the accounts.
Surely you know that such redistribution plans generally destroy productivity (to the detriment of everyone, including the poor) because people prefer to enjoy the free money rather than working hard and/or innovating?

The BTC exchange rate will fluctuate less when it becomes more established.

Yes I know. But say that Bitcoin2 gets kickstarted by the IMF who uses trillions of dollars to promote it. I love libertarian hippies, I could even go as far as calling myself one. But so far the masses have listened more to paid advertising than libertarian hippies unfortunately. I felt that Bitcoin was different in a way, you couldn't argue with it since there was just a limited supply. But if you take away the "limited supply" argument from Bitcoin, I wounder what's left.
I don't understand your argument. If I start a different currency, it is a different currency. Bitcoin clients would not accept Bitcoin2 spends. You'd have to convince people to trade their BTC (or other currency) for BTC2, and then the question is what exchange rate they are willing to do so at. This in no way means Bitcoins are no longer limited in supply.
His argument is: Someone will create BitcoinB and use billions of $$$ to promote it, offer incentives to shops to accept it, hire a development team for a full-featured client, and back it by USD. This can help it grow faster than Bitcoin, to the point where Bitcoin vs BitcoinB will be like Bitcoin2 (unsupported) vs Bitcoin.

Like I said, nothing wrong with this scenario, except I don't believe anyone will do it.
2854  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there really a limited supply of bitcoins? on: June 07, 2011, 11:22:22 AM
Edit:  Here's the list of the 100 richest Bitcoin owners.  B.F.D.   Ranges from $134K  (rich???) to about $6M  (ok, that's some serious money, but that is ONE person.   Congratulate him on his success, and move on.)
That's a list of addresses, not people. In all likelihood, the one who owns the 297K address also owns some more addresses on this list (doesn't detract much from your point though).
2855  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there really a limited supply of bitcoins? on: June 07, 2011, 09:53:03 AM
But say that Bitcoin2 gets kickstarted by the IMF who uses trillions of dollars to promote it.
Yes, if a new decentralized cryptocurrency is introduced with similar nature to Bitcoin, and billions of dollars are spent kickstarting it, it could supersede Bitcoin. But this doesn't seem a likely scenario. The backer will want to profit out of it (if he did it for charitable motives, he would just support Bitcoin instead) and it will be a very difficult balance of making it attractive enough to be adopted, giving a big enough cut to the backer to be worthwhile, doing it late enough to be sure cryptocurrency has a future, doing it early enough to be able to compete with Bitcoin, while all in all being a more lucrative investment in cryptocurrency than simply buying lots of bitcoins.
2856  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is there really a limited supply of bitcoins? on: June 07, 2011, 08:49:56 AM
You should probably read the Ponzi FAQ.

tl;dr version: Bitcoin is a revolutionary currency. Because of its rapid adoption, its value increases and some people invest in it anticipating such increase. Bitcoin has so little in common with either pyramid or ponzi that I feel silly talking about the "differences", but the main difference is that Bitcoin is sustainable even after this growth spurt.

And for the original question, as was mentioned, any Bitcoin fork is highly unlikely to be adopted because anyone wishing to adopt a decentralized cryptocurrency will just adopt the more usable Bitcoin instead (and because everyone expects others to do this, there is no reason to anticipate future adoption).
2857  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: New cheat-proof mining pool scoring method on: June 07, 2011, 04:24:23 AM
I'm getting close Cheesy

seems like r^i is huge! even a 53digit double gets rounded eventually.
You'll need to use either periodic rescaling or logarithmic scale, as discussed in this thread.
2858  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: New cheat-proof mining pool scoring method on: June 06, 2011, 07:25:15 PM
I could really use the help getting this setup on my opensource pool frontend.

It's based on mysql, php and pushpool.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as well as benefit the community with an opensource solution for their own implementation.
I'll sit this one out because I haven't the slightest idea how to set it up (if I had, I probably would have done so myself a long time ago). I hope martok will be willing to compare notes with you.
2859  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Continuum Mining Pool: No fees; Optional PPS; Client uptime monitoring on: June 06, 2011, 06:42:59 PM
It is possible that you are not receiving payment for your pps because the current round started 5-30, this is the longest it has been since we have found a block since I joined. PPS was implemented during this time, so there may not be any coins to payout yet.
PPS means payment is received for every share regardless of blocks found. If what martok implemented is different then he's wrong to call it PPS.
2860  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Question about shares - I may have lost them on: June 06, 2011, 04:35:27 AM
You didn't lose your shares. GUI Miner displays the number of shares you found since you opened it. But the pools keeps track of all the shares it received from you (and at end of round updates your balance accordingly).
Pages: « 1 ... 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 [143] 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!