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1  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: CryptoBoreas - Canadian Bitcoin Mining Hosting (As low as $65 CAD per 1 KwH) on: April 08, 2018, 05:09:55 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3029722,-60.3700759,1027m/data=!3m1!1e3

that's your operation right? 
2  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: CryptoBoreas - Canadian Bitcoin Mining Hosting (As low as $65 CAD per 1 KwH) on: April 08, 2018, 03:52:59 PM
Are you aware that your partner in Goose Bay has died?  People in town have been looking for someone to claim control of the assets.
3  Economy / Securities / Re: Line of Credit against Equipment on: April 07, 2018, 06:38:07 PM
I hope this is in the right section.....  We are looking for a $10 Million line of credit that will be collateralized by $20 Million worth of the latest currently owned mining hardware.

Does anyone know of any private or semi-private lending options?  Are there any funds loaning in this space?  We have always self-funded but want to accelerate our growth.

Any advice or referrals would be appreciated!

Considering that Bitmain has dropped prices on new hardware over 75% in some cases, why would you imagine someone would finance your used gear at 50% of the new value?

Hashing hardware is essentially worthless after 24 months due to the technology cycle.
4  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s on: February 10, 2018, 05:48:02 AM
Once again posting a warning.

I scrapped around 100 machines, and the scrapyard is trying to sell them as working units on Ebay.

These boxes were run hard for years, and were unreliable from the start.  Few, if any of them, went to scrap fully functional.
5  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast) on: January 30, 2018, 04:39:09 PM
26 BTC are still sitting in the Eligius payout address at https://blockchain.info/address/1J1WB4LxdKwR7Y3cSEYLDbYk16xiHa9ivp

Anybody seen DeadTerra, Will, or the other dude lately?

Bump!

Will is active again, perhaps he'll give us an update or something?   Huh

O my God... This is a blast from the past ...

They should first extract the shitforks. At least BCH and BTG and deliver them as well.

The shitforks are the least of our concerns (but I love the fact we are all calling them shitforks).

The BTC recovered from Frap.doc may now be worth much more than Hashfast's debts.

We need Will to weigh in and tell us if the recent BTC moonshot has made iCEDRILL solvent.

The bankruptcy process has been winding down for years, asymptotically approaching its formerly foregone conclusion, but the explosion of the Frap.doc horde's fiat value may be a game changer.

I hope the creditor committee wasn't planning on quietly slinking off with all those massively appreciated Bitcoins.

Anyone here play golf with Judge Montali?  I'd love to chat him up about What This All Means(tm).  Cheesy

The creditor committee was dissolved many years ago when Hashfast was put into receivership.  The trustee appointed by the judge has been the sole decision maker ever since, and the committee members get no more information than ordinary members of the creditor class.  The trustee settled with Cypherdoc long ago.

Hashfast is a dead dog and so is Icedrill
6  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Thoughts on 20'x50' Warehouse Space on: January 16, 2018, 01:05:17 AM
I think you need to figure out how much rent you can afford per kw.

Then figure out how much fan you need per kw too.

Mining at scale is tough.  it's a lot of capital in, and you are competing with garage miners with no overhead.

If you are signing a long term lease, look at whether you could survive another tough period like 2014-2015.  The odds are good that it is coming.

Good luck.
7  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Thoughts on 20'x50' Warehouse Space on: January 16, 2018, 12:50:31 AM
from the sketch you show, i am guessing this is a commercial condo structure with setup for office in front and warehouse in the back.

They only have 220V 200A service typically.  And it's not as simple as upgrading the panel.  You need new wires from the transformer, if the transformer has capacity (it probably doesn't).

You will be hard pressed to support the cooling requirements in a space like that.  Even if you have a climate that allows for only air cooling year round, 200 kw calls for around 30 000 CFM of air in an ideal situation (100% efficiency and separation between hot and cold)

Even running 20 kw in that kind of space would be challenging.
8  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Thoughts on 20'x50' Warehouse Space on: January 16, 2018, 12:37:37 AM
How many kW are you planning to draw?  It can be anything from easy to impossible depending on your answer.

Keep in mind that commercial leases require you to restore the building to original condition if the landlord wants.  Cutting holes can get pricey.  And leasehold improvement laws mean that any electrical work you do stays with the building.

For any scale that I find interesting these days this means buying the building.  Most upgrades to make a building suitable for serious mining will cost more than the property itself.
9  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Mining farms in the US how is demand calculated with electrical rate? on: January 11, 2018, 01:27:14 AM
75*3.4  plus (75 * 0.4644 * 24 * 30)

Your demand charge is easy as you have constant demand.  Demmand charges are really for traditional businesses which need more whatts during certain hours.  Your 24/7 and can just multiply and get them.


This is largely correct.  In practice your demand needs to be scaled up to account for losses after the meter in conductors and transformers.  This will add 5-10%.  Plus your actual usage will increase with temperature so expect an additional 5-10% for your peak loading versus the average.

You also will need to budget for your cooling load.  75 kW of miners cannot be passively cooled, so you will have to account for the fans and A/C required to keep the space in temperature control.

Free advice.  Take 1/2 of what you think you will invest and just put it in bitcoins.  Use the other half for your buildout. When you have things under control at half capacity and understand the profitability and risks you can make a decision about building out to full capacity.

I partially agree with your cooling statement and partially disagree.  You don't need AC to cool them but you do need a lot of air movement to get the heat away.  I've got around 96 KW going right now in Texas with only large fans removing air from the room to outside my building and it works fine.

Do your fans run on good intentions? 

In the real world fans require power and that is part of the total demand that OP is asking about.
10  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: SHA256d IC design question on: January 09, 2018, 06:42:39 AM
I am not a semiconductor guy, but just my discussions with folks that are suggest that the "design rules" and associated tool chains change on a regular basis as the node size shrinks. What that means to me is that the "rules and tools"  for a 40nm process don't work for a 28nm process which don't work at 16nm. I think that means that your idea of developing with "cheap" process and then shrinking down won't work since the Fab for 16nm can't use "masks" from a 40nm process. Voltages are all wrong, leakage current and a whole host of things that don't manifest at 40nm become hugely important at 16nm. I expect the testing and packaging also changes.

I know that very well.

The arrangement of transistor gates required to implement a double SHA-256 hash would not change.  The implement would change for the target process node and Fab.  

By demonstrating that your transistor level design is correct, the risk is dramatically reduced.  It's not zero because, as you say, the implementation at each node would require a unique design layout.

Would it really move the need on the costs to implement a bitcoin hash chip?  I can't say for certain.  I can tell you that a surface discussion with somebody exposed to semi design won't give you a valid answer because they are thinking in terms of tool chains and standard cells that decouple you from the transistor level by several layers.  It simply isn't industry standard practice.  But results delivered by Bitfury make it clear it's the only way to be competitive in the crypto mining space.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove a nested quote.
11  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: SHA256d IC design question on: January 08, 2018, 04:12:30 AM
Well, if you still have 50BTC you want to throw at it I have a couple of layout guys who will moonlight doing it.  Do the first tapeout at MOSIS, then buy a mask set once it's verified.  At that point, if you want to open source the GDS you're free to do so.

It would take a lot more than that.  Form a 501(c), build a project and test plan and publish a budget.  Identify a qualified team that's committed to moving forward if the needed resources are available, and the key milestones where funds are needed.

With that it really wouldn't be hard to raise the funds.  Whether it's via angel investors for a start up, or a kickstarter approach with a public domain solution as the end point would be up to you.
12  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: SHA256d IC design question on: January 07, 2018, 08:34:58 PM
Your idea about starting at a larger node is a good one, you would certainly want to debug on a cheap process.

 An open sourced transistor layout for SHA-256 would seriously break open the whole competitive oligopoly that exists now.  There are plenty of folks with double digits millions from bitcoin at this point that would see the benefit, so fund raising should be feasible.

This I think is the tough part.  Bitcoin has changed from a cool open-source environment to ultra-greed mode.  Those who have the ability to do this design certainly aren't going to want to do it for free and see some other Chinese or Russian shop take the design, kill them on manufacturing cost so the original project creators get pushed out of business, and then the takers become the next Bitmain on the originator's backs.



That's the whole point of doing the transistor design as open hardware.  You eliminate the biggest barrier to entry by putting the transistor layout into the public domain.  There still would only be a handful of folks that would go to masks at 10 nm or lower nodes, but they would be forced to keep pricing competitive because there are dozens of entities capable of entering the market.

I am sure you could find faculty that would find this a worthwhile project, and you could easily fund a few spins at an 8 inch 64 nm fab for under $1M.  That's 50 BTC.  I paid that much as a bounty to fix my FPGA supplier's garbage code back in 2012!
13  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: SHA256d IC design question on: January 07, 2018, 06:48:32 PM
I would never settle for just borderline aspergers on my engineering teams when I can hire full on aspies instead.



Actually you want engineers with a balance if it's any sort of a team.  With full on cases they will only be effective with a strong manager who can command respect on a technical level.  There's an amusing article on medium from a few months back talking about an example of this; it was something like 'We fired out best programmer and it was the smartest thing I ever did'.

Semi design isn't my area of expertise.  But as an outsider I don't understand why it wouldn't be feasible to have the transistor level layout be done in a platform independent way.  The would then allow for design debug to be completed at a low cost node for less than $1 M, then you could focus on building at the expensive node with confidence there won't be a catastrophe.  If that approach is feasible I don't really see why the whole thing couldn't be done in an open source fashion.  An open sourced transistor layout for SHA-256 would seriously break open the whole competitive oligopoly that exists now.  There are plenty of folks with double digits millions from bitcoin at this point that would see the benefit, so fund raising should be feasible.

I don't think there's much promise in pursuing other algorithms.  Basically ether's algo is the only one without existing silicon and a chance to survive long term.  I guarantee you there are people working on it already.

 
14  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: SHA256d IC design question on: January 05, 2018, 05:57:37 AM
so I had assumed that all these guys were using standard IP libraries.. If what your saying is true, then its obvious why no one has picked up the IP from a defunct firm and ran with it.

Based on your comment I found a few details... seems like you have a good point

The BFL at 28nm was I guess 400GH/s at .27J/Gh or 1600GHS at .76J/GH ..but the layout size was massive compared to bitmain/bitfury, its seems like in addition to using standard libraries they had a significantly different design methodology

The bitfury at 28nm was at around .2 J/GH and supposedly the 16nm is .1J/GH..
The bitmain 1385 is listed at .18 J/G in 16nm at the slowest speed (21 ghs)

Interestingly Global Foundries (formerly the AMD fab) fabbed the BFL device

I think Jensen (CEO) of Nvidia already has plans to build specialized mining "GPUS" for ether.

So far the public intentions has been to offer mining gpus that don't have video outputs.  The sole purpose is to prevent miners from dumping their gpu gear onto the market used when the inevitable crash comes and they can't mine profitably.

Global Foundries operates on a standard contract fab model so it's not really surprising that they built the BFL devices.

I don't think the transistor level design requirement is that big of a barrier.  Bitfury did it by himself on a kitchen table over the course of a year.  The problem is you won't find a design house willing to work that way.  They have their tool sets and their work flows and they aren't going to diverge from it.  So you will need to buy your own set of design tools and find a team of borderline Asperger's cases to do the transistor design.  

Somebody should really fund a Professor to do the design work under an open hardware license.  One the transistor design for SHA256 is done you just have to bring that into the fab's design tools and optimize for placement.  Conductor losses are becoming dominant at these process nodes so that is where the biggest optimizations will be found.
15  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: SHA256d IC design question on: January 04, 2018, 07:21:20 PM
I believe the Hashfast design ended up in the hands of their silicon integrator, which did the design work in the first place. Similarly, Terrahash went bankrupt, so their design IP ended up in play and is probably held by someone who assigns it a modest value.  BFL - I don't know what became of them at all, but they had a design.

The catch is that all of these designs were laid out using VHDL to standard cell libraries.

Bitfury clearly demonstrated that laying out at the transistor level gave massive advantage for power efficiency.  His 64 nm chip performed better than the 28 nm generation.  It was also buggy as hell.

I don't think it's feasible to deliver a power competitive design with standard cells.  You will need to start with transistor level design of an unrolled hashing core.  From there, it's likely there are power optimizations that are possible.  The design will likely need to be optimized thermally as well, to limit hot spots.

Delivering a working SHA256 hash core isn't all that hard.  Being competitive from a power efficiency standpoint will be difficult.  I doubt it's practical to expect you will be within 20% of Bitmain on a given node until your 3rd or 4th generation.

Good luck, but I think you will find your money would be better invested convincing a major player like AMD or NVIDIA to develop a solution.
16  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Mining farms in the US how is demand calculated with electrical rate? on: January 01, 2018, 11:53:09 PM
75*3.4  plus (75 * 0.4644 * 24 * 30)

Your demand charge is easy as you have constant demand.  Demmand charges are really for traditional businesses which need more whatts during certain hours.  Your 24/7 and can just multiply and get them.


This is largely correct.  In practice your demand needs to be scaled up to account for losses after the meter in conductors and transformers.  This will add 5-10%.  Plus your actual usage will increase with temperature so expect an additional 5-10% for your peak loading versus the average.

You also will need to budget for your cooling load.  75 kW of miners cannot be passively cooled, so you will have to account for the fans and A/C required to keep the space in temperature control.

Free advice.  Take 1/2 of what you think you will invest and just put it in bitcoins.  Use the other half for your buildout. When you have things under control at half capacity and understand the profitability and risks you can make a decision about building out to full capacity.
17  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: 480v 3 phase service. how to fully maximize efficiency on: January 01, 2018, 01:27:39 AM
Are u sure it is a good idea to use step down transformer when u are running something 24/7?
Better to rewire to 240v? Wat if the transformer fails for a second? 400 volts would damage the antminer right or does step down transformers have some safety feature to prevent this?

Do you know how a transformer works?  Never mind, I already know the answer to that.

------------------------

OP,

As previous posters have said you will need to buy transformers to step your voltage down to 208.  The efficiency of these transformers and their placement will determine a large part of your system efficiency.  Place the transformers to minimize the lower voltage cable runs.  This will also save you wiring costs.
18  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Avalon Quality vs Antminer Quality on: January 01, 2018, 01:20:48 AM
I don't think past experience is a predictor.  Since the 8 series is new there's no way to gauge it's reliability before the fact.

My experience is that S9s are very poor.  6 months in we are down maybe 30% in hash rate.
L3+ have been much more reliable though.
19  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Starting mining operation on: December 30, 2017, 07:54:43 AM
Your difficulty increase estimates are very low.  10%+ every difficulty adjustment has been more typical recently.

Also you need to factor the horrible reliability of S9 hardware.  Expect to lose 5% of your hashrate each month.
20  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Bitcoin Mining farm with USD 50000 on: December 21, 2017, 05:12:23 AM

Back to the days when pre-orders are the fucking norm.  I'll never understand how so many people are happy to give interest free loans to their competition for magic money machines.  Whats even funnier as you point out is that in so many cases buying and holding is a vastly better investment especially when you actually think about the risk/reward ratio!

Mining is a bet AGAINST difficulty increase...  Based on current coin price and supply of equipment that is not
a bet many folks will win.

Welcome back all investomers you are the wet dream of your competition!

It is all coming back around isn't it.  I guess if I was a smart sociopath, I would take a page from gigahash from back then and sell 'mining bonds' equal to 10x my actual mining capacity priced as if they will pay weekly at today's difficulty for the next 20 years.

Who am I kidding?  There are probably 100 ICOs offering exactly that already.

At least this time, I'm smart enough to let the fools lose their money without trying to be a hero and save them from their own stupidity.
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