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1  Economy / Exchanges / Re: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] on: May 22, 2014, 11:08:15 PM
Has anyone got the email “Announcement of Commencement of Bankruptcy Proceedings” from trustee?

Yes, and the deadline for Q3 is a complete joke. First, bankruptcy protection to feed nothing more than the pockets of lawyers, spread hopium to victims and obfuscate the situation even more. Then final bankruptcy with no real follow-up.
2  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Today, the Austrian National Bank held a lecture on Bitcoin - well.. on: April 26, 2014, 12:32:04 PM
I think the Austrians should start by changing their country's name to something more unique. I read it like Australian National Bank.

Piggy backing on the awareness raising potential of an entire continent is a unique feat already. Smiley
The other way round is not as productive though. When I was in China and giving a presentation about Austria, the organizers exhibited the grand flag of Australia to kick it off. Much lol.

Quote
Unfortunately, they didn't even talk about future regulatory things. Also, I think all in all there were more sceptic people then optimistic. However, one thing I especially noticed was this guy from the Austrian Federal Economic Chamber who was really Pro-Bitcoin and tried to debunk myths from more sceptical people. But this does not speak for the whole Austrian Federal Economic Chamber.

Sometimes, one should focus on the good things to go forward. Thx for taking notice!
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Today, the Austrian National Bank held a lecture on Bitcoin - well.. on: April 26, 2014, 11:49:25 AM
On your view - yes. But I think the average joe that just heard about Bitcoin in the media has a negative feeling when he hears the word Bitcoin, especially because of the MtGox incident and the very negative media coverage on this topic.
The problem is bigger than Bitcoin. The Average Joe is ignorant, and dumb. Quite a big portion of our population have become sheep.
True that, class division is a vicious circle. Elitists, even or especially if they are benevolent try to protect the sheep and in effect curb innovation. One only has to look at regulatory induced entry barriers of entry in capital markets.
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Today, the Austrian National Bank held a lecture on Bitcoin - well.. on: April 26, 2014, 11:46:49 AM
Thx a lot for your account on the meeting and sharing!

I wonder what the stance towards future regulatory measures was. If there was any (FMA guys). Did you get any feel for that? Also, who was more on the positive side, meaning able to see possibilities instead of drowning everything with precaution and pessimism? I'm especially wondering about private banks, if they'd participated. Any highlights much welcome.
(will listen to your recs in addition).
5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of location on: April 26, 2014, 10:48:09 AM
This would solve the distribution problem of PoS crypto.

And it would solve it in a way where deployment of stake feeds back to the infrastructure Bitcoin lives on. Or to put it other words from a private discussion I've had:
Quote
... Problem with the PoW schemes is that it creates solely a self-referential scarcity. Meaning, that only if you act within the boundary of the one blockchain, competition for finding nonces is scarce. It does not tie into the scarcity on which cryptocurrencies really depend to begin with. Namely resilient P2P connectivity. This is what proof of location + proof of connectivity does. Regarding the IP abundance. Yes, IP addresses are not scarce, hence they are not suitable to base incentives on. The whole game is IP connectivity + location and the anti sybil attack methods ...

By now, there was no theoretical argument which discards the proposed protocol. If issues under footnotes 4) 5) and 7) are addressed, it can be practical as well. What we'd need is further discussion from guys with hardcore implementation knowledge for sure. Probably this should go into the technical board, OP/Mod?
6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [RFC] æthereum: a turing-complete coin distributed as per bitcoin's blockchain on: April 17, 2014, 10:54:32 PM
... unfair

private interests destroying public goods. Nothing new, and crypto tech won't save us, can it? If not, Adam's heralded message of 'can't be evil' is rather inflated.
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of location on: April 17, 2014, 02:59:39 PM
very good insights. I would note that hashing power accumulates in several distinct locations (data centers). The more geographically distributed mining would be, the more it would be owned by different people. unfortunately we can't just require that. imagine a reward that declines the more you mine from one location. miners would make the effort to open up new data centers, but this activity would be unprofitable, so that new miners could make more.

thinking about these things I find very fascinating, also because historically currencies were tied to geography / population, and there are good reasons for that. my idea of proof of location was a replacement for proof-of-work, or perhaps augment proof-of-work. essentially each of the describe segments (what you called cubes) would be tied to the money supply. the more segments get involved the better. one could imagine software for trading between those cubes as well. for example imagine a good being shipped from one location to another tracked by the Internet. each segment has a cost function. so instead of shipping companies you would have a public agent-transport-network. this can applied to just about any productive process.

To curb contest of space which is unreasonable, just tie transaction rewards to where they've been initiated. So if you have users somewhere, providing resilient internet access + mining will be profitable (and make sense).

On the spatial partitioning scheme: one could refer to recursive schemes like BSP or octrees. Then, in places of high use, high density of mining and high competition, the space would be partitioned. Much like the self adjusting difficulty algorithm, only tied to actual meaningful supply/demand.
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of location on: April 17, 2014, 09:31:31 AM
And who needs a project that requires proof-of-location? I don't.

Proof of location & connectivity could be huge for dezentralization, an utilitarian incentive mechanism, scalability issues and increasing overall internet resilience.
Here're my ideas to that.

Introduction

Essentially, current PoW schemes rely on fundamental physical objects that cannot be effortlessly replicated. In case of Bitcoin it's the existence of hashing power. Gold in that sense has has the same property: It can't exist in two locations at the same time. Either its in a vault at one given time, buried underground, used in electronic equipment, etc. However it cannot exist at different locations at the same time 1). This is a precondition of why people trust in bitcoin and trust in gold as an unforgeable signal of state and hence are willing to use it as money. Economists refer to that as scarcity.
Other phenomena exerting the same property and commonly accepted by mankind are space and time. In fact, everyone agrees that nothing with physical presence can exist at the same place at the same time 2). Just as historians arguing to reach consensus on historic events and its many interpretations (records of history are by definition incomplete), the trick is now to reach consensus on what exists at a certain time at a certain location. In the virtual world of internet, existence of rudimentary form is usually implemented by simply pinging each other.
Now, what if you could incentivize discovery and disclosure of nodes' locations in a way that honest reports are rewarded and dishonest reports are rejected, set aside a sophisticated collusion of the majority?

Decentralized Graph of Connectedness

In the virtual world, distance can be measured in terms of stochastic sampling of minimal ping response times. The lower the response time, the closer A to B. This probably correlates with physical distance, but not necessarily so. Network topology, hardware and routing are determining factors above all.
Just as in the physical world, relative location in the n-th dimension can computed by triangulation if one knows the distance from a set of n+1 nodes. For the time being though, it suffices to ascribe every active node in the network its ping times to its peers. Because ping times in principle are the same in both directions, the stake of connectivity can easily be verified and agreed on.
But why would a node in the network even report the true ping time or even worse, refrain from emulating seemingly consistent response times with his peers to forge an arbitrary location? In other words, nothing should stop a hostile node to delay pong responses consistently but with random offsets in order to spoof identities.

Convergence of Virtual and Physical Space

Remember that one scarce and also unforgeable property of a node is time and space. More precisely, virtual space as evaluated by triangulation of ping times. A node cannot operate or pretend to operate at the same time from a different location 3), as long as it responds the quickest way technically possible. Given the reward scheme miners currently follow, exactly such a reward can be issued to the fastest and most stable node in the network. Lets say three honest nodes A, B and C have the following ping times.
A <-> B : 20ms
B <-> C : 15ms
C <-> A : 10ms
Therefore A has a cumulated response time of 30ms to serve its peers. B 35ms and C 25ms. The obvious winner is therefore C which is entitled for the reward. C virtually is located somewhere in the middle of A and B and in coincidence, is also the most coveted node for reliable communication. In practice, you'd want to use a metric which also considers the amount of peers validated and connected to, which is then a degree of responsive and well vested connectivity 4).
In this scheme however, the losers are A and B. As long as they don't position themselves differently or improve their network access, none of them could challenge the dominance of C. Eventually they'd turn down their chances to ever earn a reward (which could still happen if C goes offline or drops in connection quality) and leave. Even worse, being a potent hub to begin with, C could act hostile and start impeding traffic relayed over it to manifest its monopoly position.
So how to align the interest of the bully C, its challengers A and B towards a single goal? One idea is to introduce marginal rewards. That means, given the metric of connectivity, the second best, third best and so one will earn a degressional part of the reward. This maintains a more diverse network.


Enter the idea of contestable physical space

By now, each node is ascribed with a connectivity measure which is easily verifiable by other miners. Especially since ping statistics are garnered from every challenging node in the process of mining to begin with 5).
With three participants, ranking the nodes with a 51% consent will be quick. Now what you'd really want to have is a system of global scale. Until each node pings its peers to broadcast either a claim to be the best connected one or verifies the best few, an unfeasible amount of time and coordination is necessary. Moreover, given changing topologies and routings of the underlying networks, consensus on ranking would hardly emerge at all globally. Besides, this would lead to a few supernodes, probably residing in the US/EU (or space) and would exclude late adopters of internet technology from mining rewards. That means the utilitarian approach for an arms race towards supreme network resilience must therefore be augmented with an egalitarian approach.
To really spawn a global effort, lets assume that every claim to have the best connectivity must also contain location stamp in physical space. Much like GPS coordinates. This ties in the whole mechanism into the real world where people actually live and access the network for their purpose. For sake of simplicity, divide the globe into reasonably granular cubes 6). Now, competition and ranking is carried out in this subspaces alone.
So how is a powerful and well connected node prevented from claiming a high rank in an arbitrary space? Simply, it can't. If it reports a location far off, the peer consensus of ping times would discard it. It is bound to real world constraints. It can't supply quality network connectivity locally without facing high latency in more remote areas because of constraints of the underlying network sophistication. Even raising a red flag from one honest node can quickly impede attempts of collusion where groups report artificially low ping numbers 7).
Moreover, the reward miners are entitled to, can be entirely made up from transaction costs from users which initiate transfers from this same space. Hence making local spaces self sufficient. Given local demand from users, establishing a new network node there becomes profitable. This scales from a hundred people in the same building to a one man show in the Sahara of Africa. In the latter case, the user could easily claim this unoccupied space but then has to be her own miner at the same time. Therefore receiving exactly the same amount of reward that is used to make a transaction 8.).

Overall, this Proof of Location and Connectivity facilitates the very public good every cryptocurrency runs on: communication networks. It is utilitarian and egalitarian at the same time in that each corner of the world is open for profitable conquest as long as users are present who actually make transactions.

Of course it could just be thought of as a gimmick to location aware games. However, if this idea bears fruition it might elevate any cryptocurrency's use case and proliferation of a unified highly performant internet onto another level. Any thoughts welcome.

Footnotes

1) In the emerging privatized banking scene of the US, exactly these properties were subverted by moving gold faster from one bank to the other than the auditors were able to travel.
2) Except quantum stuff
3) Given that it has not access to a superior network coexisting to the TCP/IP based internet and colluding peers on the same coexisting network. Eventually, this would contribute to a faster and more reliable network again.
4) Maybe the average of the top quartile or proven network quality measures.
5) Jitter problems and consensus on sampling time window needs to be solved. But since every node is concerned with keeping track of time in ms accuracy, an accurate reference time can likely be established on the network.
6) Claims could also include more sophisticated volumes such as polygons to avoid predetermined boundaries and therefore artificial placement of competing miners in the centers of such cubes. If a threshold of competing miners is crossed, the volume is simply split. This works down to any accuracy the nodes will report their location. I.e, in a densely populated city, several spaces would cross the city but none of them occupied by an insurmountable number of miners.
7) Similar to the challenge-response protocol mentioned here: "proof of treachery" (http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2012/07/18)
8.) Probably, you want to keep an inflationary reward to maintain some baseline participation. E.g. this reward can be issued per km^2.


Addendum: Sybil Attack Conundrum

If verification involves weeding out noisy data sets however, e.g. with a gaussian distribution, possibilities for sybil attacks creep in. This is the case with latency data, as well e.g. seismic profile data. Since it becomes easy to forge directly neighbouring nodes with little effort by running your software twice, spoofing IP addresses and adding some figures to your genuine pong response times.
One way people try to tackle this problem is to extract honesty metrics with with sophisticated statistic methods, e.g. EigenSpeed (https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/iptps09/tech/full_papers/snader/snader.pdf). Although, what I grasped is not yet convincing.
The most straight forward approach to curb spawning sybils is requiring a proof of stake (of currency), Slasher like, in addition. Then, one would have the perfect model of expansive capitalism. Currency is invested to nodes with which they compete in yet uncontested space. Much to think about but definitely appealing big time.
9  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: If I were to steal 0.5 billion … a story how I would do / wouldn’t have done it on: March 06, 2014, 02:17:23 AM
a timeline : http://pastebin.com/jES4zEuf

although, some details in the timeline are missing...


truly splendid writeup already, wouldn't mind details contributing to the story (from which everyone can draw his own conclusions).
10  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: suing mt.gox poland on: March 02, 2014, 01:13:10 AM
option 2. Unless you are into retaliation from this guy and additional bad press. Imagine how words will spread amongst the banking scene. No bank will ever want to get involved in Bitcoin proponents again (less so then today), giving it the stigmata of a fraudsters' business. However, nowadays it's still necessary to have those links into fiat world to endorse Bitcoin with real value.

Thank you for your investigations, it shed a light on the most fundamental things. Something in my guts is telling me that a good stance with this 'prokurent' and WKB Bank can still pay off in future.

PS: if it's still technically possible despite their holding company being under bankruptcy protection, maybe sueing them not for fraud but for enforcing contracts based on private law (reversal of payments and processing payments due) is another way.
11  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Mt Gox withdrawal received PLEASE ONLY POST HERE on: February 28, 2014, 12:35:06 PM
I think aggregating evidence on this matter is a good idea since other incidences are reported elsewhere as well.

E.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yuqao/fwiw_i_received_a_withdrawal_from_mtgox_sepa_that/

Then I talked on irc #mtgox-chat with a guy two days ago who received a non trivial payment after monday. I'm not too versed with irc, hence crawling the logs. Maybe someone can help out.

Getting organized and concise about it can help to make at least a fraction of creditors whole.
12  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: suing mt.gox poland on: February 27, 2014, 12:02:59 PM
I urge everyone participating to understand a peculiar risk there. First, as Peacefuls pointed out, if you sue Gox Poland for fraud they can probably go straight into court administration mode. Which means a long and untender road until which time the subsidiary will already be tied up into the insolvency storm of Gox Japan. Then, the best case is you will get the measly 5000 PLN. Which, you supposedly should receive anyway given the liable equity capital.
Second, assuming they are in charge of both the deposit account and the EUR account, this would inhibit transactions from there as well. Since people still receive payments from there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=489652.0), it shows money is left. Therefore I propose to not sue them for fraud and halting operations, but to apply pressure and negotiate to keep fulfilling their normal business obligations until funds are depleted or official bankruptcy repercussions govern the course of things anyhow.
OP, your thoughts on this? (My sincere condolences, it's bitter times but you will come through eventually).
13  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Source close to potential investors: 3 companies bidding on Gox on: February 26, 2014, 02:41:09 PM
Paul Buitink seeds more rumors: Additional info: the 3 companies bidding on Gox are well-known in the #bitcoin industry. Hope the community can solve the Gox problem asap.

https://twitter.com/paulbuitink/status/438681699753271296
14  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Received a withdraw from MtGox today on: February 26, 2014, 02:14:43 PM
It is less than 1k EUR (SEPA) and was requested on Jan 9th. I had no hope since the website closed yesterday. Seems they still working? I have more cash in their account though.
Until the time the mtgox website has not shut down, which status was your withdrawal in? Confirmed, processed, pending?

It was "confirmed" when I checked some time last week.

And you did you get a 'processed' e-mail by them as Peacefuls is pointing out how things usually work? If yes, what day was it?
15  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Received a withdraw from MtGox today on: February 26, 2014, 01:17:17 PM
It is less than 1k EUR (SEPA) and was requested on Jan 9th. I had no hope since the website closed yesterday. Seems they still working? I have more cash in their account though.
Until the time the mtgox website has not shut down, which status was your withdrawal in? Confirmed, processed, pending?
16  Economy / Exchanges / Re: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] on: February 25, 2014, 10:10:30 AM
you need to go to source of the page

right click and source

I confirm the content of the HTML as posted... But who is going to acquire, the Yakuza? In any case it's irresponsible to f*ck up by letting no one know what is going on.
17  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Here's my gox theory on: February 24, 2014, 02:37:04 AM
Now, goxonism or its precursor karpel-syndrom spreads to real world banks as well.
18  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 23, 2014, 11:22:18 PM
The delays in fiat withdrawals continue, particularly for USD. Since these are not properly disclosed (or even the need to pay the 5% fee for a "manual withdrawal") on the website
The reason for the 5% fee is explained very well.  They can't send from their normal bank, and have to transfer the funds via domestic transfer first.  This makes two currency exchange fees at 2.5% each, which is a common currency exchange fee in Japanese banks.  USD -> JPY -> USD.  You are obliged to cover the bank fees (see the ToS).  You can find the currency exchange fee the multi-currency trading FAQ.

The reasons for JPY and EUR delays are properly explained IMO.  The reason for USD delays are not explained for legal reasons which they aren't allowed to talk about.  All USD transfers must pass through a US bank, which gives the US government full control.  MagicalTux have given plenty of hints on IRC and Twitter that the US government is involved in blocking those.  Good luck in getting a Japanese court to overrule the US government regarding USD transfers.  AFAIK all attempts of legal action against MtGox in the US to get USD out have failed, and to this day I haven't got a proper explanation of why all the attempts have failed.
If that is true, one should bark at the very system you are trying to ask for help: the governments. IF that is true, this is where anger and discontent shall be unloaded. I of course see validity in terms of money laundry and what not, but not by obfuscating the process of interventions, leading to this utmost alienation of people.
19  Economy / Exchanges / Re: MtGox Good News !!!! on: February 20, 2014, 10:14:59 AM
Though a n00b, your other post called the MtGox problems before they were announced and the price crashed.

Watching closely...

Where is this post you speak of, I don't know what to believe

I just heard from staff of Mtgox..
It seems to be there is no any announcement regarding "Technical issue" , it will goes down ... bitcoin price  

MT Gox............... have to get rid of bitcoin's stock chart!

so sad......  Cry

There you go.

He posted that before this announcement https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

EDIT: SLOW

There's no time on the press release. In fact, it showed up on Reddit and Bitcoin Forums a bit later after it was published on the site, so, can't compare those timestamps. This could be Mark himself getting people excited to wire money - I already saw two guys on Reddit saying they're doing it. Pathological optimists!


Actually it happened that I stumbled upon the news just before they made it public on the real news-site (if that makes any sense). Here's the conversation.
based on the way they've named their prior news releases, whenever they DO post their next announcement, it should be here as long as they post it today:  

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html
Actually there already _is_ a statement on that URL, though it does not show (yet?) on the news site. Apparently everyone fell victim to a BTC inherent problem of spoofing transactions. Then the state: "We have discussed this solution with the Bitcoin core developers and will allow Bitcoin withdrawals again once it has been approved and standardized."
So can a Bitcoin core developer confirm that? Obviously there are no reasons to trust gox.

That means my post should mark the time just before it was officially readable, which was 30 min after OP's assertion.
20  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MTGOX will not be MTGOX forever on: February 11, 2014, 12:47:17 PM
Just got the news here, our community outrage MTGOX!

http://www.coindesk.com/community-outrage-latest-chapter-mt-gox-story/
Step down... or how they do it in Japan: Seppuku
but before, please hand over the custody of what's left of gox to a samurai with honor
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