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61  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 20, 2012, 05:31:03 PM
FIFO order portion will be on the date the order was paid.  If two orders were paid on the same day, the lower order number gets priority.

If we send out demo units, it will only be a few Jalapeno's, which won't amount to more than a few tens of GH, not enough to affect the network hashrate in any appreciable way.  We explicitly want to avoid a difficulty spike, which is why we are wanting to release as many units we can at once, so no one has a marked advantage.  The demo unit business is not set in stone, I am just trying to get a feel for how the majority of the people want to handle verification that we have the hardware we claim to have.  I don't want to get into another situation where people are crying scam or what not.

62  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 18, 2012, 12:43:43 AM
The power requirements for the single/minirig will not be more than the current single/minirig.
63  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 18, 2012, 12:08:49 AM
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I think he's saying that you're wrong about them needing someone to do the free software development.

Correct.  We do have a little thing that's been in development called EasyMiner.  It's languished on the back burner for a bit whilest we try to get equipment out the door, but it's not been entirely idle and we are going to be focusing more resources on it as we get into gear.  This is one of the reasons I have taken over the customer service and shipping processes, to free up some people who's resources can be better utilized elsewhere.

64  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 18, 2012, 12:05:51 AM
I apologize for being vague, but some of the numbers I can't disclose, others we don't want to disclose because if we have to change them, it will cause more problems and yet more of those numbers we don't have a solid figure for yet.  It's not a matter of wanting to be vague, but a matter of having to be vague to give you any information at all.  It's either vagueness or nothing on some points unfortunately.  People don't like radio silence, as evidenced by this thread and I'm trying to provide as much information as I can up to this point.

Right now, we plan on shipping a mix of all three types of units and yes, 1/3 from each amount we plan on shipping.  Each class of mining hardware will be treated on it's own 1/3's balance sheet, not all lumped together. Does that make sense?

As far as what's "early" and what's "late" is going to depend on how many units we ship in the first batch.  Like I said, we do not want to ship out just a handful of orders in the first batch and trickle them out.  We want to ship a large quantity in the first batch.  

Let me ask you (and by extension everyone else): Do you want us to ship out a small quantity of units first and then a larger quantity later (thereby giving the first shipments a major advantage) or hold on to the units until we have enough (I am still going over what the "enough" is, specifically) to satisfy a large portion of the first set of orders at once?

It was my impression that the overwhelming majority wanted the playing field to be as level as possible, thus holding on to the orders until there's enough to ship a reasonable quantity would be preferred over shipping out a handful of each right away?  Is that thinking incorrect?
65  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 17, 2012, 10:13:01 PM
Then have a media day and allow anyone that wants to visit the lab to see the units in action to do so.  Don't ship units out to hand chosen shills people so they can rape the difficulty all in the name of proving BFL isn't lying (again).

I think this is a great idea and I would love to do this instead, but then we'll get complaints that somehow we gamed the demo and if we really wanted to prove it, we should have sent the units out to people so they could test it any way they want, instead of with our canned "media" demo that is using a Cray XMP backend to produce the results over an encrypted cellular network, and the extra power required is beamed in via a cold fusion powered infrared laser.

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Or just pick out "proven" community members and invite them to the BFL lab....

Just give the community anything to trust in!


Not that "We have something that can hash very fast and we are taking money for preorder now...... aww u want proof .... go to hell or trust us ....radiosilence ...." crap  BFL is doing right now?


Why not showing us (the community) some details about the new Product, like you did with the FPGA singles?

Again, a fine idea, but again we'll get complaints that we rigged the demo somehow.  I'm not sure about the radio silence thing, since there's nothing that hasn't already been said available to communicate.  What details would you like to know?

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I am confused as to why you NEED to have people vett and verify that the units exist and do what they are supposed to do?  Why not just let the first shipment tell everyone that?  Do you expect a huge wait time between the time when you have a handful of units that you could ship out to high profile individuals vs when the first large shipment will go out?  Personally, I don't think you need to prove anything.  Your FPGA singles have already proven that you can produce a good mining product.

No, what I don't want to happen is that we ship out a handful of units here, a handful of units there, and those units that get sent out first give the first deliverables a huge advantage and pump the difficulty.  We want to have all the participants lined up and released at the same time, so no one has a marked advantage.  I don't mean we are going to send out minirigs or probably even singles to anyone.  We would send out the a Jalapeno to a few individuals that are trusted by the community to evaluate and report back that yes, they in fact do what's claimed and it's not a big scam.  Frankly, I am really boggled by the fact that people are seriously complaining that we are trying to be open with the performance of the product and send it to people that have no vested interest in BFL conducting a scam. 

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That's exactly my contention as well.  As long as they have a backlog of product, they don't need to prove anything to anyone.  Focus on shipping out the backlog, THEN work on convincing the skeptics (which they won't need to at that point, since the shipment of the backlog would have proven everything they can prove).

Very true, we don't NEED to do this, we are trying to do this as part of an effort to further the bitcoin community and provide as much openness as we can under the constraints of actually, you know, running a business instead of a charity project.

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Why wasn't this information in the ordering process?

Some obscure forum post, not even an official forum for Bfl decides I might miss out on maximum profitability.
And now, behind the scenes it is decided that 'special' people get to kill the Bitcoin difficulty while I wait!

I ordered ignoring all this anti Bfl Bullshit. Now I feel like i have been conned.

What information?  When did you order?  Nothing has been decided behind the scenes, it's all been out in the open.  If you had questions, did you ask?  If you ordered early, then you're likely in the first 2/3, so what is your complaint, exactly?  If you ordered late, again, what is your complaint?  Do you expect to get an iPhone 5 on launch day if you didn't pre-order?  In either case, send me a PM with your order number and/or full name and I can get you a refund ASAP and I apologize for any confusion in the order.  We will gladly refund 100% of your money.

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AFAIK, the 1/3 lotto only stands for the first batch of shipments, and only counts for those who ordered within the first month. After that it will be business as normal, fulfilling order numbers as they come.

Exactly.  The 1/3 plan was decided on before I came aboard.  All the plans seemed to have unhappy people, and this plan seems to be the best fit (as decided by the community) to have the least amount of unhappy people as possible.  As it stands now, it seems like you have a minimum of a 66% chance of being in the first batch, depending on when you ordered.  If it was exceptionally early, then you have a nearly 100% chance.  Those are dang good odds.

Now, back to the random 1/3.  Does anyone have suggestions on how best to use the blockchain to determine the lotto results?  I have several ideas, but I'm sure the giant brain of bitcoin can come up with a more creative method than I can on my own.
66  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 17, 2012, 06:08:34 PM
Sorry guys, but you, as the community, decided on the 1/3 strategy. The majority of the folks that chimed in deemed it would be the best way to handle it and that's what we are going with.  It's not only coming up "just now."  It was decided on before we started taking orders.  It was what YOU chose and I find it incredibly unfortunate that there are people now complaining about it.  It is, quite literally, impossible to please everyone, I hope you realize that.

If you want the FIFO method, you should have ordered first and you would be in the 2/3's of the orders that are FIFO (depending on if you're upgrade or new order).  Simple as that.  If you failed to do that, if you waited or hemmed and hawed and someone got in ahead of you, then that's on you.  It was announced when we would be taking orders, the exact date and time, so it's not like it was a surprise, either. 

The details for the random, I am trying to solicit the community involvement on how to handle that so it's comfortable for the community.  If you want me to handle it internally, I will do that as well, but I wanted to make it a community project.  But you guys are dreaming if you think we are going to release proprietary sales figures just for the heck of it.  Seriously, what business does that?  The only ones are the publicly traded companies that are required by law - otherwise they would not be doing that either.

With regards to the high profile individuals, if we did NOT release them then you people who are complaining about releasing them would now be complaining about "BFL isn't releasing them because they don't live up to the specs!"  So again, it's impossible to please some people.  We think it is better to release a few units to some devs and media folks to vett and verify that the units exist and do what they are suppose to do, prior to us releasing them en mass to everyone.  If you folks that are complaining want to just take our word for it, then that's ok by us as well, but we certainly can't have you complaining that we are lying about the specs because we aren't showing a unit to anyone trustworthy.

Please excuse me for a bit while I hold on to my BFL hat very tightly to remind myself not to post what really should be posted in response to some of the complainers. Smiley

67  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 16, 2012, 11:58:23 PM
Yes, we will be filling them in order after that.  

Keep in mind that I will not release any order until I feel that we have enough orders to ship out to everyone in the first batch.  I don't want a few select individuals to end up with the ASIC days or weeks in advance of others.  We will release a few demo units to high profile individuals (not high profile miners necessarily) to check out if we are in the accumulation phase of assembled equipment.  
68  Bitcoin / Hardware / [Archive] BFL trolling museum on: August 16, 2012, 11:06:45 PM
The plan is still to do 1/3's on the shipping type.

I do want to mine the community here to flesh out my idea for this, though:

I want to use the block chain as the random number generator.  Something such as this:

After block X, every block's first Y bits will determine what order number gets their unit in the 1/3 random portion.  Obviously, this needs a little work to work out. So I am looking for ideas on how to implement this in a fool proof way that everyone will be satisfied with that we are not gaming the system or somehow twisting it to our own ends.

Keep in mind we will not be releasing any specifics on orders (such as name, order number, etc...) publicly, but only to the people who own those orders, if they choose to publish them here, that is their own business but we won't divulge private information or sales numbers.  So the plan needs to work from a blind standpoint.

So I'm looking for comments and ideas from the community that the community itself will be satisfied with and that is as transparent as possible without dipping into proprietary information.
69  Other / Off-topic / Re: How long to get BFL to answer support email? on: August 16, 2012, 10:57:33 PM
I am working on getting the customer service response situation streamlined and working well.  Still probably a week or two away from that.

What email address have you sent your request to?
70  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 13, 2012, 11:21:53 PM
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The BFL Hoax has become so large now that they have had to hire a Chief Operating Officer.  I predict that by the end of the year they will be delivering products just to keep up the charade.

Best quote ever. Smiley
71  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 13, 2012, 05:23:18 PM
I just want to reiterate the fact that I can not respond to customer service issues through the PM system here.  You will need to contact office@butterflylabs.com for CS issues, until I can get the support ticket system operational.
72  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 08, 2012, 08:44:51 PM
There is not a faster firmware than 896 currently.  We are working on putting out a new autotune package, but it's mainly directed at fixing some Minirig issues with tuning.

73  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 06, 2012, 02:13:27 PM
I will still be posting as Inaba for communications that don't involve BFL. 

As for the GLBSE assets, they should not be affected.


How many accounts do you have here @ bitcointalk ?

Two, now.  This one and Inaba.
74  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 06, 2012, 01:43:41 PM
I will still be posting as Inaba for communications that don't involve BFL. 

As for the GLBSE assets, they should not be affected.
75  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 02, 2012, 12:39:49 PM
I honestly can't answer any functional questions about internal company business since I haven't actually started working there yet... so I don't know those answers as of yet.  I have current obligations that I have to wind down prior to the 13th and then it's going to take me a bit to assess the current situation and get up to speed on where things stand internally at BFL at that point.

As far as release schedules go, I will be addressing and handling those as well.  Be careful what you wish for though, you might end up with a Valve style release date on stuff. Smiley

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Hiring a COO to fix their customer relations (and one who can't keep from calling people idiots when discussing his new demeanor) is like hiring a CTO to fix their website.

This is the public part of my job, but it is not my only job.  I did not think, nor do I now think that anyone cares what other activities I will be conducting that will not affected the things Bitcointalk cares about.  Also, I said you wouldn't see as many rants, etc... from me.  That doesn't mean I won't call a spade a spade.  If someone is being an idiot, I will likely ignore them; however there may be occasions where it's warranted to point out that fact if it serves a higher purpose than just poking fun at someone.


76  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 01, 2012, 07:59:47 PM
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Can you explain the secrecy behind the names of people at the company?

There are several factors involved, but the short version is that having experienced some of the "stalking" we internet denizens tend to do when our ire is up, they are somewhat reluctant to put their privacy and sanity at risk.  Additionally, they are fairly private people and have obligations outside of bitcoin that they do not necessarily wish to mix with the bitcoin world a this time.

Keep in mind, if you are not familiar with online forums and the kind of "communication" that goes on in them, especially the wild west forums like Bitcointalk.org, it can be a horrifying place to otherwise uninitiated individuals.  As open and welcoming as we are, we are still an insular world that is hard to really break into, especially when you come bearing the seemingly impossible claims.

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what does your new found status as COO allow you to do or better yet what will you be planning to accomplish in this role?

First and foremost, I'm going to get customer service on track and then get production optimized and producing units as fast as possible.  I will also be examining our supply chain and getting that beefed up so we can meet demand going forward.  Delayed hardware is easier to swallow when you at least know what's going on.  Waiting weeks for an answer is not pleasant for anyone involved, so that will be the main area of focus in the immediate future.
77  Other / Off-topic / [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: August 01, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
First, let me start off by saying I apologize for the length of this post.  I wanted to get all the information out there at once.  Normally, I would not make a post of this nature, but given the current circumstances, I think it is warranted.

Many of you on bitcointalk.org forums know me as “Inaba,” the operator of the Eclipse Mining Consortium bitcoin pool.  In approximately two weeks I will also be wearing a different hat.  As you may be able to guess from my new forum name, I will be working with and for BFL.  Effective August 13, 2012 I have accepted the position of Chief Operating Officer of BF Labs INC. (Butterfly Labs)

BFL is the clear technical leader in the FPGA and upcoming ASIC mining space.  As a direct result, the company has grown very quickly over the past year.  Unfortunately, its customer service, which was initially very good, did not scale fast enough, which caused customer relations and transparency to suffer. BFL is eager to improve and one of my top responsibilities in this new position is to focus on that specific issue.  I am, have always been and will always be committed to good customer service and transparency when it comes to bitcoin in general and the daily operations of related activities.  This is where I will be focusing much of my initial attention, specifically to take the pressure off of everyone involved so that they can focus on the other important factors, such as getting the hardware delivered on time!

While I may not be universally liked by everyone in this community, I believe I at least have the respect of many people. I have always stood behind my integrity and commitment to what I promise and I take ownership of my mistakes.  This will not change going forward and I will give my best level of effort to deliver on the promises I make to this community as a representative of BFL, as I always have.  If for some reason I am unable to deliver on those promises, I will provide an explanation as to why.

While there may come a day when bitcoin does not need the Bitcointalk community, that day is still far in the future.  As I have cultivated a relationship with this community through EMC, I also plan on cultivating a rewarding relationship with the community through BFL.  There is some history and baggage to overcome, but I do not believe it is insurmountable.  I also will not be part of or lend my credibility to an organization I do not believe in or one that I believe is working to undermine bitcoin at the expense of the community just to make a quick buck.

To forestall some of the most likely questions, I’m going to answer them here:

Q. Have you been working for BFL all along?
A. No. I have had no business relations with BFL beyond being a customer and also providing some technical assistance getting their equipment to properly talk to pools.

Q. Seriously.  You’ve been working with BFL from the start, you can admit it, haven’t you?
A. Seriously, no!  I first discovered BFL at the same time as everyone else, back around November of 2011.  It was purely coincidental that I happened to work, literally, across the street from their registered address of operations.  I was just as skeptical as everyone else, especially when I discovered the registered address appeared to be a Lebanese restaurant that I frequent (but never really paid attention to the address).  I learned more about BFL along with everyone else and since I was local and close by, I reached out on behalf of the Bitcointalk community to BFL, specifically Sonny, to see if I could gather more information.  I had been running the EMC pool since May/June of 2011 and had no knowledge of, or association with BFL or any of the parties involved in BFL up until it was first noticed on these forums.

Q. Are you going to stop being such a jerk on the forums to some people?
A. Maybe.  It depends. Actually, yes.  As a pool operator and an independent individual I have far more latitude and freedom to express my displeasure with some of the more intense stupidity that can be encountered on the internet.  As a representative of a company, I am, unfortunately, a bit more constrained from explaining to various people exactly why they are idiots.  As such, I will likely be ignoring a lot of the more of the ludicrous posts than I have before. To those of you who enjoyed reading my rants, I am sorry that they will be far fewer and betweener. Smiley

Q. What are your qualifications in the endeavor?  What do you bring to the table?
A. I’m glad you asked.  From a customer service perspective, and more specifically, from an online community perspective, I have extensive experience on both sides of the fence.  I have run online forums since the Fidonet days, and have extensive experience in the often caustic, emotionally driven environment that an online forum can produce.  This allows me to effectively communicate with the population, since I am one of the populous myself.  Unlike many customer facing people in many industries, I also have a strong technical background; I am able to communicate effectively with you about your problems, wishes and desires from a technical perspective.  I will not make empty promises from a marketing standpoint if I know it’s technically unreasonable or impossible.  I am also able to effectively manage a project from end to end, which will be critical in getting our manufacturing and production lines going in the most efficient manner possible.  I have also run a number of startups, and I understand the unique challenges required of a startup to function properly and successfully.

Q. Come on, for real, you’ve been with BFL all along, right?
A.  No!  Really!  I have been working for an unrelated company that has nothing to do with bitcoin long before BFL was founded or I knew of any of the people involved, and I am still working for that company, until the day I start working for BFL.

Q. What will happen to EMC?
A. Right now, there are no plans to change anything with regards to EMC, other than more improvements as usual.  I will continue to operate EMC as I have since the start.

Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else!
 A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest.  I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations.  This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.

Q. Why now?  Why not before?
A. The topic never really came up.  BFL as a corporate entity is a startup and has been running very lean and mean.  With wild success and absolutely spectacular outlook for products, it’s time to move to the next stage of business.  With my diverse skill set, I can replace both a technical lead and a PR/community lead, thereby eliminating the need for an additional person, which means we can move that much quicker in the market as well as have that much less overhead that can go towards development instead of human resources.

Q. Are you going to become just another mouthpiece for the BFL party line?
A. First of all, there is no “party line” coming out of BFL.  They have been up front and honest with their dealings in the community from day one.  There are a number of people on the forums that feel that BFL has been dishonest and some of those feelings are justified if viewed through the lens of “Every business should be perfect, always.”  However, both Sonny and the engineers, contrary to some statements you may have seen from others on the forum, have been honest in their assessments of capabilities and timelines.  They have been mistaken, yes, but they have not been willfully or intentionally dishonest.  Some can say they should have known better, and whether or not that is true is, at this point, academic.  I am looking at the future, not the past, and I will be doing my level best to provide accurate information from day one.  If there is some information that I believe to be inaccurate, a lie, or just plain wrong, I will not pass it off as fact.  I will not tow any “party line.”  I will give you the honest facts as I know them.  There may be times that there are trade secrets that I cannot reveal, but I do not believe this constitutes falsehood or anything nefarious, as there are times where revealing certain bits of information would put BFL at a competitive disadvantage.  That will harm not only BFL, but also its current and future customers.  If there are still people that, going forward, feel that this is somehow dishonest, then I apologize in advance and I also give advance notice that there will, in fact, be times where 100% of information cannot be disclosed, either immediately or possibly ever.

Q. Help me!  Order Status?  Why is the sky blue?
A. I will not be able to answer your questions with regards to order status, etc… via PMs.  The PM system does not allow me to track or correlate information to provide accurate answers.  I will, however, be able to do that via email and our new support system that I will be facilitating in the near future.  PMs requesting information that should be directed to the support system will be ignored.  I apologize for this, but it’s just not feasible to handle the volume of requests that it would generate.

Q. Are there cookies?
A. Yes, there will be cookies.  The cake, however, is still a lie.
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