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401  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining on: December 04, 2013, 05:22:05 AM
Just a couple questions...

1) with a target block interval of only 30 seconds, aren't block orphaned at a high rate?

2) how can cpu mining be guaranteed?

3) what is the advantage that Quark has that those in this thread consider to be deficient in Bitcoin?

Seriously, I don't understand the attraction.

1) at the beginning that was a problem, now not anymore.


Okay, how was this problem solved?

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2) No one can guarantee anything. Since when do cryptocurrencies or any software whatsoever come with a guarantee?

Who knows what kind of computers will exist in even 10 years. With a little bad luck those future computers can do all bitcoin
mining within a day, and make bitcoins very obsolete...

  Okay, not guarantee.  What about Quark makes mining with GPUs or Asics difficult?

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3) The money master Bill Still is behind it, and it has the same name like the most likeable figure in StarTrek Deepspace nine.
No, just kidding. I suppose that remains to be seen, they say it has many different hashing algorithms put together and not just one, like bitcoin.
But does this logic equate more security?
If I put 6 different locks on my door, is it more secure? Not really... there are other factors.


Bitcoin has the ability to use two different hashing algos right now, but just uses one twice.  This kind of thing coudl be spliced onto Bitcoin without stopping the running network, I'm just curious as to the merits of such a thing.  As you noted, there is a case of deminishing returns with adding extra locks onto the same door.
402  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining on: December 04, 2013, 05:04:11 AM
Just a couple questions...

1) with a target block interval of only 30 seconds, aren't block orphaned at a high rate?

2) how can cpu mining be guaranteed?

3) what is the advantage that Quark has that those in this thread consider to be deficient in Bitcoin?

Seriously, I don't understand the attraction.
403  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 04:35:20 AM
Well, I agree with you, and I agree that it is settled, but that doesn't make it any less debated in my experience.

I like this discussion, I haven't been debating libertarianism for quite a while, and I have a feeling that there are quite a few libertarians gravitating towards cryptocurrencies.

We were the first through the door!  Of the first 1000 or so forum members here, roughly four were NOT of the libertarian persuasion.  The political debates at the time were between flavors of libertarianism.  Of course, that all changed as the popularity of Bitcoin (and thus the membership here) exploded, but it was nice having a safe haven while it lasted.
404  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Any other Americans considering a claim against the FBI over SilkRoad? on: December 04, 2013, 04:27:39 AM
Not sure how well it would go over for Americans, however I wonder if it is possible for people from other countries to do so? For example, if you were buying drugs in a country that doesn't prohibit said drugs, and the U.S seized your funds, would you not have a claim?

I think that you would, but IANAL.
405  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Any other Americans considering a claim against the FBI over SilkRoad? on: December 04, 2013, 04:26:54 AM
If you succeed the court would return the wrongly frozen assets back to you.  I don't think I have to point out how much of an uphill battle that will be and how much the three letter agencies will turn over every aspect of your life to see if there is fire where there is smoke but it is your right as part of due diligence. 

Well, I never bought anything on that site, but I sure wouldn't relish the thought of the FBI, ATF etc up my business for a mere $30K; but I strongly suspect that number is going to continue to rise. 
406  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 04:18:56 AM
No, unless the slaves voluntarily sold themselves to slavedom,

I'm sure that you have to realize on an intellectual level that this statement is impossible.  Even the S&M sex slaves aren't really slaves, they're just play-acting.  You cannot 'sell yourself' beyond a limited term and under very limited conditions, thus nothing like chattel slavery at all.  Even those same S&M sex slaves have that 'safe word' that makes it all stop.

Yes I know, By selling yourself as a slave you give up the freedom that you as a libertarian claim cannot be given up, and so on, hence the back door, which actually just makes it a long term employment.


No, I think you misunderstand the point.  The core right of mankind is the right to life.  If I own myself, which I obviously do, I own my life.  If I truly own anything, that means I have the right to destroy that thing.  I have the right to destroy myself, and I can actually sell the right to destroy myself to another.  However, if I were to sell myself to a human-hunter for sport, and he fails to follow through, he's also 'quit' his claim and, by reason of my own continuing to exist, have immediately homesteading my corporeal body once again.  It's not the selling of self in the moment that's impossible, it's the ongoing arrangement that is impossible, because I can change my mind at any time.  And if I can change my mind and walk off the chain gang, then it's not really slavery, is it?

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Selling yourself to slavery and selling your own organs is usually some of the most debated questions in the libertarian community.

Not in my experience.  Both issues seem pretty well settled.  The first isn't prohibited in any way, it's just impossible to sustain; and the second is obvious.  If I own myself, which I obviously do, and I have the right to destroy myself, which I do, then I have a right to part myself out.  The tricky part is proving after the fact that it was an agreement I freely entered into without coercion.  If I'm only selling one kidney for a very large sum of money, and am still alive after the fact to assert that my kidney wasn't stolen from me, then I shoudl be able to sell that kidney; and I should be able to buy one in like manner.  However, selling all my parts is tricker, since it becomes less obvious that I actually gained anything. ; but I can think of a scenerio or two where even that would make sense.  Say, for example, I had an inoperable brain tumor, but my heart was in excellent shape.  My own doctors gave me six months to live.  Then some really rich guy comes and offers to pay my next of kin an ungodly sum of money for my heart, because he has a teenaged son who needs a heart transplant in the next 3 months and I'm a match.  IF I coudl verify that my own bills woudl be paid, and a fund set up for my kids to go to college, such a trade woudl be rational as long as I truly believed (and had not been decieved) that my own life was short.
407  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 04:00:21 AM
No I am serving as a lieutenant in the Royal Swedish Marines Home Guard.
And as a board member of the local chapter of the Swedish Federation for Voluntary Defence Education and Training.
And we have no troops nor have we had any in Iraq.

Ah, a state sanctioned militia.  That makes sense, actually.
408  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What does the bible say about Bitcoin? on: December 04, 2013, 03:57:56 AM
Quote from: Rev 13:16 NIV
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
Keeping people from buying and selling was nearly impossible in Bible days, but we see it now with Visa, Mastercard and PayPal blocking whoever they don't like.

I've got to say, you're stretching the limits of imagination trying to squeeze that conclusion out of that verse.
409  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 03:54:23 AM
No, unless the slaves voluntarily sold themselves to slavedom,

I'm sure that you have to realize on an intellectual level that this statement is impossible.  Even the S&M sex slaves aren't really slaves, they're just play-acting.  You cannot 'sell yourself' beyond a limited term and under very limited conditions, thus nothing like chattel slavery at all.  Even those same S&M sex slaves have that 'safe word' that makes it all stop.
410  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 03:50:27 AM
But I have chosen to try to change from within, working politically and voluntarily serving in the armed forces on my spare time rather than refusing to pay taxes..

Wait, what?  Are you serving in the National Guard and donating your service pay to the Iraqi Orphans' Fund or what?
411  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What does the bible say about Bitcoin? on: December 04, 2013, 03:45:13 AM
I am going to give you a non ignorant non ridiculing answer to your question sense you asked in sincerity and people mocked what you asked.

The bible does teach that the root of all evil is money.


That's actually a very common misquotation of the verse in 1 Timothy 6:10, which started with a poor translation under King James...

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."  -King James

But a much more accurate translation is this....

"For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows."  -New Living Translation

The latter is a better translation into more modern English.  There are many independent translations that come up with pretty much the same take on things. http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/6-10.htm

To put it another way, to love money is the source of a great many evils that men commit against one another, but it's not quite the only cause.  However, the very nature of money does not make it evil, nor is the possession of money alone a sin.

412  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What does the bible say about Bitcoin? on: December 04, 2013, 03:34:21 AM
And why Catholics and Protestants don't like eachother much to this day.  Smiley

I was raised Catholic, my wife was Protestant.  We get along fine.
413  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 03:24:48 AM
Yes, so far. When a better way is introduced I will embrace it.

Do you really think that there will ever be a totally libertarian society? Of course not, no thinking person believes that, thats why it is utopian. You can however by working politicaly and with different civil activities try to change the current society.
And in a libertarian society those who want to pay taxes are free to do so, and I choose to pay.

No, sir.  That is why it's realistic.  Even libertarians regard a libertarian society on a sliding scale, not an absolute.  That is why striving towards the goal would, and should, become harder with successes.  Unlike socialism, however, an imperfect liberty isn't a broken society.  An imperfect socialism simply requires that a iron-fisted government 'correct' the imperfections with force.  This is what we saw happen during the last century, all the while the Politburo complained that the problems the people saw was a result of an imperfect socialism, and that more work need be done.  Libertarianism, however, is fundamentally different.  A libertarian minded society can tolerate a socialist sub-culture, even while most people consider it a mistake.  A socialist minded society cannot tolerate a libertarian sub-culture, because that is the very embodiment of the 'imperfect socialsim' that they must eradicate.  Socialism cannot exist, because it requires forcing some minority to participate against their own desires and/or nature.  Libertarianism doesn't care what your personal desires or nature is, if you don't like liberty, you are (ironicly) free to dispose of it however you like.  No one is going to bother to 'force' you to live free.  However, that absolute libertarian society that you speak off is at the end of the long tail of the political bell curve.  We know that we can never get there, but that doesn't imply that doing our best isn't worthwhile; in part because an imperfect liberty is still a good place to live in the meantime.

Bur, sir, that is exactly what I am saying and why I call it utopian.
I wholeheartedly agree with all the rest of your text.

Utopians don't see the impossibility of the end goal, nor the value in a partial victory.
414  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 03:23:28 AM
Yes, so far. When a better way is introduced I will embrace it.

You're inside it.  The lifeblood of any civilization is it's trade currency.  Up until Bitcoin, a dependable trade currency pretty much required the intervention into the monetary policy by the soveign, if only to garrantee that gold was indeed gold if it had his face on it.  This is no longer neccessary.  The transaction fees you may or may not choose to pay for are this society's voluntary taxation.  Nothing more is 'required' of you here.

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And in a libertarian society those who want to pay taxes are free to do so, and I choose to pay.

Very well.  But by doing so, you also choose to accept the culpablity of the wrongs persecuted in your name, because you can't really separate the taxes that you pay for paving roads from those use to kill brown people that don't speak English.  You can imagine that your taxes are paying for education of inner city kids all you like, but someone is paying to catch, prosecute and incarcerate addicts for victimless crimes against the state.  I pay taxes as well, but I'm not under any illusions that anything more than a very small minority of it is used to pay for anything I would volutarily contribute towards.  My taxes are 'protection' money, from the greatest protection racket around, and there is nothing noble about it at all.
415  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 03:11:38 AM
Yes, so far. When a better way is introduced I will embrace it.

Do you really think that there will ever be a totally libertarian society? Of course not, no thinking person believes that, thats why it is utopian. You can however by working politicaly and with different civil activities try to change the current society.
And in a libertarian society those who want to pay taxes are free to do so, and I choose to pay.

No, sir.  That is why it's realistic.  Even libertarians regard a libertarian society on a sliding scale, not an absolute.  That is why striving towards the goal would, and should, become harder with successes.  Unlike socialism, however, an imperfect liberty isn't a broken society.  An imperfect socialism simply requires that a iron-fisted government 'correct' the imperfections with force.  This is what we saw happen during the last century, all the while the Politburo complained that the problems the people saw was a result of an imperfect socialism, and that more work need be done.  Libertarianism, however, is fundamentally different.  A libertarian minded society can tolerate a socialist sub-culture, even while most people consider it a mistake.  A socialist minded society cannot tolerate a libertarian sub-culture, because that is the very embodiment of the 'imperfect socialsim' that they must eradicate.  Socialism cannot exist, because it requires forcing some minority to participate against their own desires and/or nature.  Libertarianism doesn't care what your personal desires or nature is, if you don't like liberty, you are (ironicly) free to dispose of it however you like.  No one is going to bother to 'force' you to live free.  However, that absolute libertarian society that you speak off is at the end of the long tail of the political bell curve.  We know that we can never get there, but that doesn't imply that doing our best isn't worthwhile; in part because an imperfect liberty is still a good place to live in the meantime.
416  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: A simple newb question. on: December 04, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
Way more than a few, but most of us are long past having such conversations on an open Internet forum.  Most of the important stuff is still in the archives, though.
417  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen. on: December 04, 2013, 02:34:02 AM
No need to discuss. I used to be a libertarian so I know what you mean. I just slowly realized as I got older that it is as utopian as the communist societies.

Then you are regressing, not maturing.
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Taxes are actually the simplest and easiest way to fund some things and democratic decisions are the easiest, and in some ways, fair way to decide how to distribute the taxes.

So far...
418  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Any other Americans considering a claim against the FBI over SilkRoad? on: December 04, 2013, 01:55:08 AM
Why would you use a blackmarket as an online wallet in the first place?

Because I had already been taken by another online wallet service that closed with much of my funds.  Mybitcoin.com IIRC.  So I figured that a hidden website that doesnt' even pretend to be legal wouldn't be a worse risk.  I figured (incorrectly) that as long as it had already been up and not seized, that DPR must have known what he was doing in the security realm.  I was keeping it there as I transitioned from one computer system to another and moving from one home to another.  I just hadn't gotten around to logging back into it and sending myself the funds yet before the FBI takedown.  I was procrastinating.
419  Other / Politics & Society / Any other Americans considering a claim against the FBI over SilkRoad? on: December 04, 2013, 01:40:31 AM
I was using SilkRoad only to store a selection of bitcoins offsite.  I've never bought any drugs from the site, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.  They took about 30 bitcoins from me when they snatched Silk Road, and I'm considering sueing them now considering their present value.  Anyone else thinking about this?  Anyone here have any experience with such a claim?
420  Economy / Economics / Re: Do you really believe in bitcoin as a currency? on: December 03, 2013, 11:35:11 PM
And in the long term, I think that both mining and running a full node needs to be easy and provide no-one any reason to not do it.

Build the water heater / miner.
Then you can get one in every home that needs hot water.

Or the heat trace cable asic miner, so that institutions can freeze protect their plumbing assets while also protecting their bitcoin assets.  No, really, I'm not joking here.
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