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1  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Myrkul Sells AnCap... on: December 17, 2012, 03:33:47 PM
I suppose all the rational people are either convinced by now, or have simply resolved to agree to disagree?

Quite frankly not everyone has as much time on their hands as you to get involved in debates on a niche forum about your cooky ideologies, some of the shit I have read on these forums these past weeks in 'politics & society' ( not just you Myrkul, though you are a busy boy, aren't you) makes me feel no hope for the human race... not that I had much in first place.

Anyway, pointless thread, on a pointless forum, with generally pointless people, so I thought I would add in my pointless opinion. Which is: FUCKING THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR TYPING/SAYING... THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK.

Idiots for the most part, the lot of ya.


2  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Apparently Stalin was good guy who killed no one... on: December 08, 2012, 12:49:15 PM



It's fundamentalism that's moronic, independently of the flavor  Roll Eyes
Amen!

Thanks, I've been itching to use one of these...

Your logical fallacy is...

Fail.
3  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Still think Agenda 21 is a crazy conspiracy theory ? on: November 15, 2012, 02:49:57 PM
Yes.

4  Economy / Games and rounds / Re: Garr's Game -- Possible gain of 7% ROI weekly! -- "Honest Ponzi" on: November 11, 2012, 01:29:57 PM
RoloTonyBrownTown is going to fucking love this.  Champ.
5  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Dank Bank Deposits - dank soul guarantee - 1.2%-2.0% weekly - New music Nov. 2nd on: November 09, 2012, 10:12:54 AM


I am now convinced Dank has been trolling us all this time, hahahaha, touche, touche.
6  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Dank Bank Deposits - dank soul guarantee - 1.2%-2.0% weekly - New music Oct. 30 on: November 08, 2012, 12:31:28 PM

 Grin Grin Grin Grin

Just as crazy as I thought you were. Is it even in tune lol?

Is dank bank still open? I want to invest the same amount as you dank.....


Fuck all!
7  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 03, 2012, 05:02:29 PM
It boils down to this: The only "legitimate" functions of government are to protect the life and liberty of the people it represents. Even these functions need not be provided as a monopoly, however. In fact, the argument can be (and has been) made that providing these functions in this manner itself violates the principles which the government claims to uphold. The production of security, like any other industry, is best left to the free market.

You say that what we see around us is the result of "less stringent regulations." On the contrary, it is the result of stringent regulations limiting the field of competition, followed by a relaxation of those regulations for the established few. Every regulatory agency is staffed by former employees of the industry it regulates. Does this not seem like a conflict of interest to you? Former members of regulatory committees regularly take positions in the industry they regulated. Does this not seem like a conflict of interest to you? Industries spend great deals of money on lobbyists to get laws passed which limit their competition. Does this seem like a free market to you?

This is not a free market. This is Fascism. Corporatism. Crony Capitalism. Call it whatever you like, it is the unholy marriage of business and state, starting with the very concept of the limited liability corporation. That legal fiction has allowed CEOs and other corporate officers to run their company, and their stockholders, into the ground, and walk away richer than when they started. That legal fiction has allowed corporations to fund political candidates as if they were people. That legal fiction has enabled a great deal of the misery which you call the fault of the "free market."

No arguement with all of the above, but do you honestly believe that people would be charitable enough to give up the needed amount to covers those who cannot for what ever reason provide for themselves? What's the solution to that? Sure the way taxes are being spent you could argue(and would be right too imo) that they don't cover these costs, but they quite easily could.



8  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 03, 2012, 02:45:42 PM
I'm thinking along the lines of those who are physically or mentally challenged, people who are severely ill, children without the support of a parent(s) for what ever reason, people who cannot find work (but are willing, not talking about the benefit society like in England, where you have a whole demographic of society who don't even want to work, because they are better off not working). Its obviously a lot more complicated than this but you get the picture.

The government is not altruistic, I have never said that. Merely that tax COULD be beneficial in a society, if only it were not spent on paying off corrupt bankers or flooding cash into weapons development to fight illegal wars. But then we reach RIchy T's point on insanity.. doing some thing over and over and trying to find the 'right guys', who always turn out to be no more right than the last... which I will admit is a valid point, but what is the answer???

No tax? Well I just don't agree with you there.

Well, here's a thought... Have you ever considered that those endeavors - aiding the severely mentally or physically challenged, providing care for orphans, etc, could be run as for-profit industries, while at the same time providing work for those who desire it, but cannot find it, and removing the incentive that drives the welfare culture? (We have one here in the US, too, btw... it's a predictable consequence of giving out free money that some people will stop working for it.)

As for people being greedy, yes, they are. But as I have previously stated, the US is one of the most givingest nations on the planet. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of thriving charities. What you point to as their failures is in reality, simply their inability to keep up with the rapine of the world's various governments. An aid package is sent to a third-world nation, and a local warlord comes along and steals it to use to support his army.

If over and over again the people in charge of stealing your money to help others have decided to help themselves, maybe it's time to take control of that yourself and help others without the forced third-party?


I have seen what happens when you have privatisation of public services and would argue that once you have profit in the equation it always seem to be just about the profit, and not much else. A charity by its nature is funded by people's good will, for someone to then use that as a platform for profiteering, is wrong, in my opinion.

I think you know how I feel about you calling the US one of the most 'givingest nation'. You only need to look back in history to clearly see that most if not all of the USA's wealth has been stolen (yes I know, everyone else was up to it too, but does that make it right? especially for someone who is so against 'robbery') So to even hint that the US altruistic is pretty weak, when you consider they took everyone's shit in the first place. Thanks giving always made me laugh, the celebration of genocide? or am I missing something?

Even in your own example, it is again the governments which are the problem, not the taxes, which is what I have been saying all along, your last point is very well put and I agree with it, but I don't think the answer is no tax, It seems you'd like the free market to do what tax is doing now? But surely we all know what happens when a free market is left to rule? Look around us right now, many of the problems are due to less stringent regulations.

I think the key point here is what is the alternative? A question no one can seem to answer, but I cant see how removing tax is going to benefit anyone in general, except a small % of the worlds population who might feel a little more flush.

The problem has and always will be the government.
9  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 03, 2012, 01:59:07 PM
I agree with you, on the "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*" but what is the solution? I don't see the removal of tax helping the situation at all, only worsening the issue's we all ready see around us daily.

How will taking violence out of the equation make things worse?

How else are you going to help people who need it? Charity?..... It doesn't work. People are too greedy for it to work.
Define "help people who need it."
Oh, and while you're at it, explain why, if people are so greedy, government - made up of people - is so altruistic that they'll take other people's money to help people.

I'm thinking along the lines of those who are physically or mentally challenged, people who are severely ill, children without the support of a parent(s) for what ever reason, people who cannot find work (but are willing, not talking about the benefit society like in England, where you have a whole demographic of society who don't even want to work, because they are better off not working). Its obviously a lot more complicated than this but you get the picture.

The government is not altruistic, I have never said that. Merely that tax COULD be beneficial in a society, if only it were not spent on paying off corrupt bankers or flooding cash into weapons development to fight illegal wars. But then we reach RIchy T's point on insanity.. doing some thing over and over and trying to find the 'right guys', who always turn out to be no more right than the last... which I will admit is a valid point, but what is the answer???

No tax? Well I just don't agree with you there.
10  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 03, 2012, 01:49:05 PM
I agree with you, on the "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*" but what is the solution? I don't see the removal of tax helping the situation at all, only worsening the issue's we all ready see around us daily.

How will taking violence out of the equation make things worse?

How else are you going to help people who need it? Charity?..... It doesn't work. People are too greedy for it to work.

Yep, charity doesn't work, because the greedy government would rather make us all slaves taxed into oblivion so we have not a single dollar or minute in the day to spare for charity.

Yeah, its the governments fault you dont give to charity, not because you, and our whole society is pretty much based on greed, right? Pfft wake up man, don't lie to yourself.

And don't for one second think that I don't agree with you about the government being greedy, but that is not the issue when it comes to charity, greed is, everyone always wants more.
11  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 02, 2012, 05:36:48 PM
I agree with you, on the "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*" but what is the solution? I don't see the removal of tax helping the situation at all, only worsening the issue's we all ready see around us daily.

How will taking violence out of the equation make things worse?

How else are you going to help people who need it? Charity?..... It doesn't work. People are too greedy for it to work.
12  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 9/11 is the Litmus Test on: November 02, 2012, 11:27:20 AM
Are you guys familiar with Adam Curtis? In particular the Power of Nightmares which paints a view of 9/11 and the war on terror which I haven't seen before. Its in 3 parts, each an hour long but it is well worth a watch. Id be interested to know what you think of it too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGo1DqmfHjY



gimme 2btc for me to find 3 extra hours to watch

Do yourself a favour and watch it  Wink
13  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 02, 2012, 11:19:08 AM

5. The only point I am trying to make, is that tax itself is not the problem, the governments are.


What is a government without tax? What is a tax without a government? Can you really separate the two?

You either have some arbitrary power deciding what good cause to spend other peoples money on, or you can have each individual deciding for themselves what good cause they wish to support with their own money. If it really is a good cause, you don't need to rob people to pay for it. The end does not justify the means.

I am merely saying that taxation could be used better and that tax itself is not the problem, but how it is spent. But you seem to be in the same boat as the other guy's here who see it is as 'robbery'.

I don't for a second buy into the idea that if you did not have taxes people's charity would be enough to cover the costs of supporting those who need it. As I have said earlier, we have charities today, yet we still have world hunger. To me, it seems fairly apparent that if people are not even charitable enough to stop people from starvation, they're not going to be charitable enough to pay for say, free healthcare or improving a road system that they will never use, but will help society in general.

 So unfortunately yes, people do need to be forced, as I have said earlier, people are too greedy for unforced charity to cover the costs of the needy.

Now I know your going to disagree with number 5, but rather than focusing in on that, read everything else I have said. I agree with a lot of what yourself and Richy are saying.


And once I agreed with a lot of what you're saying too.

So there's hope for you yet Smiley

Here's an important thing to consider when it comes to taxes and "good government"



The sentiment always seems to be "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*". There are no "right people"

Now this is a very good point, but in a system without tax, the power simply shifts away from a centralised government and more likely than not, into the hands of the big conglomerates (yes I realise this is what we have today anyway). The problem is power corrupts, we all know that, but I don't see how having no taxes would be a step away from centralised power, if anything the powerful would become more powerful and the poor and needy... (well going on how charitable people are) dead or in a worse place than they are now.

I agree with you, on the "Everything will be OK if we can just get the right people in charge *this time*" but what is the solution? I don't see the removal of tax helping the situation at all, only worsening the issue's we all ready see around us daily.
14  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 05:05:40 PM
As for the robbery thing, which we have been over once, I told you were I stood, and il take the 8 ball part as a troll? or you really have a memory of a gold fish lol? I guess you thought robin hood was a baddie too?

Current theory is that the real Robin Hood was a thug who took from the rich and... took from the poor too and kept it for himself.

But that's the funniest part. He (and others like him) are misrepresenting the myth.

Gah it was a moot point that I made fairly light heartedly but again way over your heads huh?

Im pretty sure Robin Hood is a myth, perhaps based on factual events but not much more than that. But way to take the time to get stuck into that one  Shocked

Yes I know I said I was leaving...
15  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 05:01:18 PM
Meow, il take your continued avoidance of my questions and bitchy tone as you dont have an answer me ya greedy git, this thread is eating up too much of my time, I think ive explained my point, we'll agree to disagree before this turns into petty insults shall we?


PS. The actions which you ascribed to "The western world" are all done by their governments. The people are very charitable.

Last one I promise;

Your putting words some what in my mouth, this is what I was saying about what I have said going way over your head. Il try once more;

1. I do not in anyway, support any government system in the world today, as far I can see we're in the shit.
2. I do not in anyway believe the current state of democracy to be 'good'.
3. I do not in anyway believe the taxation system in any country (that I know of) to be fair or effective.
4. I do not in anyway believe that the money from taxes collected today are spent 'well'
5. The only point I am trying to make, is that tax itself is not the problem, the governments are.

Now I know your going to disagree with number 5, but rather than focusing in on that, read everything else I have said. I agree with a lot of what yourself and Richy are saying.

However, the part about greed I was talking about comes down to a theoretical world where the taxes are being used for good, your life would be totally different, think of the money given to bankers, the military industrial complex etc. Even a fraction of that money could provide a huge array of public services. In an example like this, I can only see the possible answer for not being in favour of it as greed.

Why would tax be a bad thing when it can so easily be used for the benefit of society? Again all theoretical as the world we live in today is far from what I describe above.

It would be great if everyone was charitable enough for there to be no need for taxes, but that just simply isn't going to happen. We cant even feed the world through charity, never mind providing infrastructure, health care or what ever else the people need.

16  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 04:42:38 PM
Meow, il take your continued avoidance of my questions and bitchy tone as you dont have an answer me ya greedy git, this thread is eating up too much of my time, I think ive explained my point, we'll agree to disagree before this turns into petty insults shall we?

I love how you quote the post where I answered all your questions (admittedly, one or two with even tougher questions) and then say I avoided them. Nice try.

Do us all a favor: actually fucking read Robin Hood.

Ah see and there it is. Bitchy Mc Bitching

You see, you did avoid my questions, but like I said earlier, you have the memory of a gold fish my friend. Some real tough questions there too bud, but im afraid as I said earlier too, my time is being eaten up by a forum thread, on the internet, I have more pressing matters than to shoot the shit with you virtually, Sorry to disappoint. I tell you what, il come back to it when I have time? Please try to be civil, even though im sweary its not aimed at you, atleast not in an offensive manner. Pea's
17  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
How on earth do you manage all those quotes? Fair play.
Copy/paste. It's quite simple, really. You do know how to use this device that you're accessing this site with, right?

Code:
[/quote]

[quote author=Jimmy Chang(y) link=topic=115907.msg1311007#msg1311007 date=1351784679]


In my country, unless you are being an idiot, your not going to get beaten by the police when being taken away for tax avoidance, that just simply isn't going to happen unless you decide to get all aggro. Which isn't going to happen because I know why they're taking me away, tax avoidance, im breaking the law, I have been caught, I am going to jail, why add a beating into the equation?
So they've got you cowed before they even open the door. Who is less the slave, the one who bows and scrapes and says "yes, massah," or the one who must be whipped to achieve compliance?

As for keeping what you have, no problem. But is it the tax which is the problem? or your life style? Ever stop to think about the amount of shit you consume? personally? or as a house hold? Do you ever think where this stuff comes from? and ends up? Do you think this stuff just magically appears and comes from a never ending supply of stuff? Just food for thought, back on topic; if your taxes were not being wasted away but infact invested into your country, be it health care, welfare, better roads, state owned energy etc do you not think that could be of no possible benefit?Do you like seeing homeless people?
I'm quite aware of where my consumer goods come from. If money were not stolen from the people and used to destroy capital goods elsewhere, I imagine the economy would boom, for the simple fact that the money doesn't get wasted, and thus is re-invested in the local economy.

I know, im talking totally theoretical here, which is what I have been saying all along, the current system is wrong for sure, but claiming that no tax is the answer is, in my opinion, wrong.
What's so wrong about suggesting that voluntarily paying for the things you want to happen to happen is better than having your money stolen from you to pay for things you would never agree to?

You then go on to talk about the USA being a charitable nation? You got to be fucking kidding me right? The western world goes and pillages and plunders the rest of the world, takes all the resources, makes huge amounts of money of it, gives a fucking minuscule fraction of it to 'charities' (who for the most part are in-effective money pits where the cash never seems to weigh as much by the time it reaches some poor kid in the 3rd world.) and you have the audacity to sit on the internet chirping about the USA being the most charitable nation on earth???
Have a browse: https://www.charitynavigator.org/

Now before you get all patriotic on me, I know its not just the US of A, I know the Euro's are just as bad and the Russians, but thats not the fucking point is it.

The charity point I think ive just explained where I stand there, you cool with world starvation I take it? I mean, these charities that all us charitable western folks have set up will save the world oh yea. Who needs taxes, the charities will feed the poor of course! Except as we can see, it doesnt work, does it?
I wonder why....
Yeah, the people get together, raise a bunch of money, send the food and money to the country that has need and then the government there steals the food and money. Live-aid is a prime example.

As for the robbery thing, which we have been over once, I told you were I stood, and il take the 8 ball part as a troll? or you really have a memory of a gold fish lol? I guess you thought robin hood was a baddie too?
I love how tax advocates keep pointing to Robin Hood as an example. Idiots. Robin Hood was taking the taxed money back from the government and returning it the people.

Who owns me?

I own me, anyone who wants a piece can come and get it haha.
I thought self-ownership was "bullshit"?


Meow, il take your continued avoidance of my questions and bitchy tone as you dont have an answer me ya greedy git, this thread is eating up too much of my time, I think ive explained my point, we'll agree to disagree before this turns into petty insults shall we?

PS. The link for charity navigator indicates that almost all that I have said, has gone well over your head. Keep living in your little bubble.
18  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
Cheesy you damn communist!

Haha I dont know what I am, just very angry lol!
19  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 03:53:41 PM
Quote
I claim your talking horse shit and the only reason you are bothering to spout it is because your greedy, you want more than you have. If you weren't, you'd see the potential benefit of a tax system which helps those who need it. 

There's this thing called charity and trust funds you know Tongue an invention by evil capitalists

Yeah and I can see that there doing a fantastic job at stopping world poverty. They work really well huh, people are just so charitable...........  Roll Eyes

One could argue the exact same thing with taxes.

You could for sure... I think I am just really bad at explaining what I mean. Everything I have said which would hint I am a tax advocate is being stated on the theoretical assumption that the taxes are being spent on the 'right' things.

Please please don't think I like any of the systems currently in place, its a travesty.
20  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why are people scared of taxes? on: November 01, 2012, 03:49:51 PM

I haven't been to school for a number of years, thanks for being condescending though.

My apologies. Blind belief in the righteousness of government is often, but not always, a sign of those who have not yet met the real world.


You don't want to go to court? The police come and find me and take me, or your on the run. I'm not from America so the threat of guns is not really an issue, still, I don't like jail.

Are you sure? You might be surprised. I don't want to make any assumptions on your location. FWIW, I'm not from America either, I just choose to live here.

You should try to think more globally, the world isn't just America.

I do. My own home country has shot one person (to death) for carrying a table leg and another (well beyond "to death") for wearing a bulky jacket and having darkish skin in recent memory.

Edit: Though let's forget the guns for a second. The issue is the initiation of force, not the method used to do so.


You claim taxes are wrong, because its stealing.

Not stealing, robbery. Though tricks like "PAYE" are perhaps more akin to stealing.


I claim your talking horse shit and the only reason you are bothering to spout it is because your greedy, you want more than you have. If you weren't, you'd see the potential benefit of a tax system which helps those who need it.

I would settle for a tax system that helped those who needed it. I will still argue about the right and wrong of using force to part people from their earned wealth though.

Richy let me assure you that I have no faith in any governments, at all. The point I have been trying to make is that tax, itself, CAN be a good thing. Im not saying today, that the system we have is good, im saying the complete opposite, its utterly useless but that does not mean that tax is useless.

As for forcing people, sure i'm all for personal freedoms but sometimes people need a nudge in the right direction and if you have a taxation system which operated fairly and spent the money wisely, I personally am ok with it.
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