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2941  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 01:43:39 PM
@ franky1
That's part of the point of it being a store of wealth currency. Yes, you will always have to exchange some to pay your taxes but the person selling you a coffee, new car or a house will probably be delighted to take the currency that will hold its value over the fiat one.

the real estate was a store of wealth........ until 2007/8
and people wont b delighted to sell coffee a new car or a house if accepting that payment is:
higher than fiat
involves using a service that is the same counterparty authorisation control as fiat

many are already asking why buy bitcoin to buy coffee and the retailer just converts it back to fiat.
bitcoin has lost its utility.

now its just like real estate scandal of hanging onto vacant properties purely waiting for the price boom. or like domain squatting hoping someone will buy your domain at a higher price than you bought it for. even it the domain doesnt come with any webstorage/function

.. as for the first part of your post to the other person.
just making a currency that people love is not enough. millions of people love the euro because they can USE IT in many countries without needing to exchange it when going from lets say france to belgium to germany. but this does not mean the euro has toppled america, or africa, or china or australia. because those governments have laws.

its not citizens just using a currency that changes things. its the laws. and governments will not simply rip up legal tender laws
2942  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 01:34:16 PM
Lightning "hubs" is a myth created by big blockers to misguide noobs into thinking that LN is some centralized system like Visa. In reality anyone can open channels with anyone, it is peer-to-peer just like Bitcoin itself, and it is trustless - you don't "deposit" your funds and lose control over them like it happen with banks, you can always close the channel and get your coins back to your address, because Lightning funds and transaction are real Bitcoins, they are not some tokens or giftcards. There's no reason why Lightning Network should have big hubs, because anyone who is currently running a full node, which is thousands of home users, can also run a Lightning node and collect fees.

At the same time, it is big blockers who want to have a small centralized network of big full node hubs while most users are connected with SPV clients, because no one can afford to run a full node with gigabyte blocks.

1. you have been reading too much of the reddit propaganda.. with your "gigabyte blocks" falsehood
2. you have not read the technicals of LN and just the promotional material

3. even core devs have now admitted that 8mb blocks was always safe and that 4mb blocks are ultra safe. hense why they are allowing 4mb 'weight'
yet they still refuse real legacy utility of the blockchain for 2mb... think about that..
4. LN is not trustless. and yes you do have to put funds into a new address and yes that new address is no longer permissionless because it needs you AND the counterparty to agree.
5. you need run some rational scenarios in your head about the functionality of LN. but only do this after you have read the technicals.
6. oh and stay away from reddit. its propaganda heaven
2943  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
personally i have made mega profit from btc, but to me its the ethos i cared much more about. and here is how i seen it

I read your points about LN, TBH I'm relatively new to learning about it so I'm not getting into the technical arguments of whether or not it can succeed.

To me, the ethos is still there and I have the belief that technical solutions will be found to make it functional whether that is LN or whatever comes next. There's just too much to be gained from doing it for someone not to. It may even be the case that it isn't Bitcoin in the end but another coin not yet invented, but I'm convinced that the future is a cryptocurrency that takes back control of the supply of money from government.

the government has laws.
such as taxes needing to be paid in fiat (legal tender)
wages being measured in fiat (minimum wage law)
court, parking, other fines being paid in fiat (legal tender)

its not as simple as just introducing a new currency and the government gives up. after all rationally.. the euro has been around a few decades now and yet americans still use the dollar..
yep thats right. just having a currency that many countries recognise, does not mean governments are toppled
 because the US government dont want the euro as a legal tender in the US even if its a currency that has utility and recognition in many countries.

bitcoin has lost its utility and so people wont adopt it for buying coffee, or sandwiches. and until the devs actually implement a fee formulae again that punishes people for spamming every 10 minutes via high fee's and rewards people who only spend once or twice a day with low fee's.. bitcoin will remain just a speculation real estate/domain squatting scheme.

yes crypto's as a whole has potential as an alternative choice to sit beside fiat, but bitcoin as it stands right now has no chance...
and crypto as a whole and bitcoin will not topple the governments legal tender laws. both crypto and bitcoin will just be a secondary currency to sit alongside fiat, not topple it.
much like deciding to open an EU bank account so you can choose to buy things with Euro around the world while still using dollars in the US
2944  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
I talked about everything with my family and my friends. I think it should be done because I want my family and friends to also get success. They were all surprised because I showed them what I had, for them it was impossible but I again reminded that I got all this after I got to know cryptocurrencies. It's like a dream, but it's all happening. I know the first time people know cryptocurrencies they will think weird and feel this is impossible, believe me when we manage to find the best way to introduce cryptocurrencies then that will make us contribute to increase the use of cryptocureencies in the world. As more people are acquainted with Cryptocurrencies it will make progress and profit for everyone.

personally i have made mega profit from btc, but to me its the ethos i cared much more about. and here is how i seen it

imagine it like housing
you lived in an apartment complex with an over protective maintenance guy, named the 'gov' who loved coming into your apartment at his leisure under the pretence of fixing the plumbing/electrics as a service he provides as part of you living in his building.
you then hear about this new thing.. its called a detached self contained house. great you move out of the complex and get your own house

now here is the rub. you now realise that there is a toll road at your suberb/block.. $5 everytime you wanna come in or out. you also find out that your plumbing is costly too. the house loses all its utility and desire to use. but you hold onto it anyway purely for its real estate value.

but after a few years although millions of people are holding onto houses that cost a bomb just to enter, and have no utilities, the demand for housing is still there because the real estate values are booming. and people think they can get rich just holding onto empty houses

eventually though. people realise that all the houses are functionally useless and cost more than other living conditions.

in short. bitcoins value is now only speculative real estate boom.. not real living in independent comfort value.

2945  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 12:13:50 PM
The difference as I see it is that there will be little barrier to anyone setting up a hub. All these hubs will be interlinked with channels between them so you can set up a channel to any one of them and still have access to the whole network. That level of competition is going to have a significant impact on what level of fees anyone is able to charge.

to be hub you need to have connected to many channels.
this means depositing funds into MANY addresses to open such channels and have enough funds to act as a provider(hubs are for rich guys)

also to be a successful hub you need to be listed as part of LN's DNS seed (routing table).

..
that said we both agree its not a replacement for bitcoin. its just a third party service. thus does not actually alleviate bitcoins situation. infact when a hub needs to close its channels, it will be a blanket bomb effect because to ensure the hubs many channels tally onchain. it will ned to close them all simultaneously and with a large enough onchain fee for each of those tx's to ensure block acceptance

think of it this way. at the moment the blocks can only handle around 2500 tx's. which means when its time to close a hubs channels. that hub better not have connections to more than 2500 customers, otherwise there will be a bottleneck.

and yes hubs will need to close channels because funds will need to move. to refill the channels
EG

if A connects to B which connects to C
if A wants to use B as the hub to pay C for a coffe each day

A+B have a channel and both fund it
B+C have a channel and both fund it

so day 1
channel1      |     channel2
A:0.001        |     B:0.001
B:0.001        |     C:0.001

so day 2 - a pays b in channel 1 .. and then B separately uses B's channel2 funds to pay C.. the funds of channel 1 dont physically touch C. its B that does the borrowing for A
channel1       |     channel2
A:0.0009       |     B:0.0009
B:0.0011       |     C:0.0011

so day 10 - a pays b in channel 1 .. and then B separately uses B's channel2 funds to pay C.. the funds of channel 1 dont physically touch C. its B that does the borrowing for A
channel1       |     channel2
A:0.0000       |     B:0.0000
B:0.002         |     C:0.002

A in channel one has nothing left.
B in channel two has nothing left. thus B will need to close channels to settle up

now imagine it if B was paypal with thousands of customers not just 2

stil unsure about the need to close channels.
imagine you had a $30 walmart giftcard.
your wife gives you $10 CASH and says she wants to buy stuff at walmart with your giftcard.
your wife the next week gives you another $10 cash, same again

your wife cannot just keep handing you $10 forever and just use the walmart card. at som point you will have $30 CASH in one hand and a walmart card of $0 balance so you will need to refill the giftcard with the cash. which involves closing and reopening channels
2946  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 11:26:00 AM
bitcoin lost that ethos of taking control of money

i too had your mindset when i too started in 2012.

but the politics of a certain dev team and their ambition to intensionally hike the fee's up have priced bitcoin out of the daily us money market. and now bitcoin is just a speculation asset with little to no real world function.

in short it flipped out of the money market and now in the stock market, as a close analogy as you can get.
no one wants to swap shares to buy a coffee. re certifying a share to a new owner costs too much

I may be just a natural optimist but I see this as a temporary phase of Bitcoins development. I do see Lightning Network as the best scaling solution and Bitcoin is well ahead of everyone else in developing that. The high transaction fees now are in main due to the increase in value having overtaken the technical development. I think it was a mistake that Segwit2x was not backed by the whole community as it probably would have been a good compromise solution to get us through this period until LN is fully ready.

BTW, thanks for being the only person to comment that actually read the OP and not just the title.


LN is another bitcoin ethos losing scheme.
research multisig/smart contracts
then review LN technically, not optimistically... its an eye opener

then when you actually look at LN you will see that people will need to transfer funds into a co-owned address with a counter party.
which is pretty much like depositing funds into a walmart giftcard to then spend funds at walmart and whereby walmart can then act as your banker if you wanted to spend your walmart funds at any other merchant(with extra fees added for that privilege)

LN is banking 2.0.

other issues are that although its said to be dirt cheap tx fee's inside LN, ALL LN proposals are more infavour of the hubs/counterparties making money out of being hubs/counterparties/service providers by means of charging a fee.

oh and may you not forget to get your funds into a LN channel you need to do a onchain transaction.  and as such it will still cost a lot just to deposit into a LN channel. much like having to pay a few dollars just to use paypal.. yet in the real world paypal are not stupid enough to charge people just to deposit with them

there are many, many other issues with LN. but in short its not the scaling solution.. its a off chain service to avoid the headaches of bitcoin by compromising your funds into no longer permissionless controlled account.

p.s i lost my optimism when blockstream took over the reigns after 2014.. bitcoins ethos has not been the same since then
.. yes i spelled reigns intentionally because the devs think they are the new head of state
2947  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is quantum computing be a treat on Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrency??? on: January 06, 2018, 06:42:20 AM
bitcoin has many different parts

sha hashes are binary
ECDSA are vectors

quantum computers are not really going to do much harm to binary, because what quantum needs to do is to while calculating outside the realm of binary, it needs to ensure the result and method can be solvable by a binary system. thus limiting quantum's capabilities

however vectors are at risk. quantum computers can solve vector issues much faster
its been suggested that quantum computers can solve a sha only 2x as fast as a binary computer but solve a vector 65536 faster

and with quantum computers only having half a dozen units at a low processing power.. compared to the combined bitcoin network of ASIC power... quantum computers has no chance of bruteforcing sha hashes any time soon

.. but ecdsa has some risks.. given enough time
2948  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The purpose of Bitcoin on: January 06, 2018, 06:30:36 AM
bitcoin lost that ethos of taking control of money

i too had your mindset when i too started in 2012.

but the politics of a certain dev team and their ambition to intensionally hike the fee's up have priced bitcoin out of the daily us money market. and now bitcoin is just a speculation asset with little to no real world function.

in short it flipped out of the money market and now in the stock market, as a close analogy as you can get.
no one wants to swap shares to buy a coffee. re certifying a share to a new owner costs too much
2949  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How can crypto help Mark Zuckerberg to fix Facebook? on: January 06, 2018, 06:24:34 AM
i think its about making it self validatable and auditable for his facebook credit system between his payment gate way and all his partners in the games industry(like zynga) and advertisers(like google)

simply to not have to employ auditors and security guards and able to pay his partners in a way they can verify funds easily and cheaply.

yes even in a closed system just the auditing/verifying element of blockchain tech can save on staffing costs.
after all mining pools dont need to employ accountants to verify tx balances. its all handled by code
2950  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is it possible to change Bitcoin's max supply? on: January 06, 2018, 06:16:05 AM
We know that the bitcoin's max supply is 21m

So the question is:
Is it possible to change it's max value? For example, making it 30m so that more bitcoin can be mined. If so, what will be the effect on it's price? Will it be higher or lower?

some devs have proposed this many many many times.
simply changing the cap from 21mill to a bigger number can be done but a majority of nodes need to accept this new rule.

in actual fact there are 2.1 quadrillion shareable units of measure (called satoshi's) right now
21000000.00000000 bitcoin
2,100,000,000,000,000 satoshi's

some people have tried also to pretend to keep the 100million satoshi basket term of bitcoin at 21mill baskets.. but allow more units of measure/shareable units(sats/millisats) per basket(bitcoin)

this is where bips about allowing millisats have been proposed. but the end result is the same
increasing the shareable units of measure above 2.1quadrillion, either by allowing more baskets(bitcoin) above 21mill or allowing more units per basket(millisats) both RUIN the rarity value of the currency.

its like gold.. if its known that there are only about 200 tonnes of gold with 170t mined so far and someone comes along and says they can make a million tonnes in a laboratory.. the gold market will plunge..... answering your question. it would be lower

just be happy that there are 2.1quadrillion shareable units
2951  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Newbie question on: January 06, 2018, 05:54:13 AM
Yup thats correct he was just stating that now. Its less confusing when I see on gdax then simplefx. Just curious have you ever day traded cryptocurrency. I'm seeing there is quite a bit to learn.

yes i have
another tip

if you have lets say 1btc. dont throw it all on one order

only make orders of 0.1btc for instance.
if the price drops you then have 9 other opportunities to buy more CHEAPER.
instead of having no funds and just crying and waiting for the rise before you can trade again, knowing you missed oppertunities

as they say never put all your eggs into one basket

..
other tip. dont wait around for 10-100% profit before selling.
add up the commission(fee) cost of buying and selling..
add that onto the buy price. then add on 1% of that total to give you a suggested sell price with 1% profit

its easier to make 10x 1% profit in a faster time than waiting for 1x10% profit

last tip..
never sell at a loss.. thats what the other 0.9btc is for. to BUY at a price drop treating it as a good discount day. not to sell at a loss treating it as a day to cry
2952  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Newbie question on: January 06, 2018, 05:35:57 AM
gdax does have 2 prices.
see their charts.. red and green bid and ask buy and sell

ignore values in screenshot. its an old image from google search i used as example. but on the left you can see there is a 29cent difference between the buy and sell
2953  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: bitcoin political party that permanently backs crypto, funded by crypto on: January 06, 2018, 05:31:44 AM
new hampshire project tried it. (google search can explain the rest of the story)
2954  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Newbie question on: January 06, 2018, 05:22:27 AM
the buy is always higher.

if it was the other way round people would buy and instantly sell for guaranteed profit. no one would ever lose

trading works by you buying at a price and waiting for the overall value to increase, whereby the new price would allow you to sell.
EG
day 1: buy:16640.45. sell price 16460.20
day 2: buy:16940.45. sell price 16760.20

buy 1btc on day1 and sell it on day2 = $119.75 profit

that said most FX platforms are not actually trading real bitcoins but just playing around with a database they own with numbers they input.
if you cannot deposit or withdraw bitcoins and your only able to deposit and withdraw fiat while only 'playing' with a cough btc cough price on their platform. stay away from it. its not real

its like boiler room gambling on racehorses without actually buying a ticket
its like boiler room gambling on stocks/shares without actually buying a certificate
2955  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wire transfer denied for involving crypto currency on: January 03, 2018, 10:09:26 PM
the real cause of this is much more simpler then people think. and surprisingly its not actually bitcoin related

many banks do not care about bitcoin.
here is the thing, FIAT does not get burned/vanish when a transfer occurs. it just moves from one persons account to another persons account. bitcoin does NOT destroy fiat, so banks dont care about the conomic impact of bitcoin. its irrelevant to them

what they do care about is if the recipient of the funds has had flag warnings related to chargebacks.

yes thats right, scammers who send money to coinbase, get their bitcoins and withdraw bitcoins, then call up their banks and claim "theft" to try getting a chargeback (wire reversal)

and its the amount of wire reversal claims that these banks then flag coinbase and others as high risk.
this has happened alot. even individual coin sellers on localbitcoins have been victim to this even without ever touching coinbase or informing their bank the use of the funds. the banks flag them as high risk due to chargeback scammers claiming the 'service' scammed them. when infact is the claimer thats doing the scammer, and thus it then effects others who know the recipient is innocent but the banks treat the recipient as a high risk
2956  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: United Kingdom’s National Cryptocurrency Ready to be Launched in 2018 on: January 03, 2018, 09:58:58 PM
If the news are real it would light a green light for every other crypto currency and if UK adopts a thing than the other nations will follow it as dominoes. I hope it happens than we can see the real price of coins.

what will happen is new regulation that only BANKS can create cryptos and any other non bank will get done for counterfeiting and such.

plus it will be smartcontracts, like lightning where people deposit funds into a smart contract so the counterparty has dual control of th funds. thus its not going to be permissionless.. many numbskulls dont realise that lightning IS banking due to smart contracts with a hub/counterparty control

lastly because banks will have access to the funds its not that much different in regards to customer 'ownership' of funds than traditional banking systems.. the only real benefit is to the banks by not needing as much security/auditing personnel.. i see little to no benefit for bank customers for a bank using crypto.

in short. getting excited that a bank makes their own crypto is the opposite to a revolution.
but hey, all im ever gonna read is people shouting "this will cause price rise due to a media coverage and speculation"
2957  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: United Kingdom’s National Cryptocurrency Ready to be Launched in 2018 on: January 03, 2018, 09:43:17 PM
I take back everything I ever said about fat cat bankers now I have come across Bitcoin miners
charging me $80 last week in fees and I was not even buying a car or a house.

I have no idea why you're paying that much. It has to be voluntary commitment because I'm paying 0.000005/b the whole time and it takes maybe 2 hours to confirm. A week ago it was laggy and I had waited much longer, but we're talking about $20 per transaction, compared to your $80 Cheesy Maybe you just like tipping them or don't know how to manually adjust the fees and prefer the system to do it for you? Usually being lazy turns out to be costly.

you defense is that it cost you only $20 in fee's... but..... you still had to wait hours, and at laggy times even longer.

i think you need to re-assess yourself if you think that even $20 is acceptable.
imagine if you bought something in a shop. and the retailer said thats $10.. you hand them a $100 and they say they will give you back $70 in 2-5 hours.

wake up. the dev's behind core have lost all recognition of what bitcoins 2009-2014 ethos was, they are sellouts and have done stupid crap to ruin bitcoin not make it better

and the only rebuttal i ever here is "but the price is rising so good investment, never use it to buy things just hodl" (facepalm)

anyway, on topic
the UK banking system ALREADY for decades now has a banking system that lets people wire transfer funds instantly FOR FREE.. its called "faster payments" only a few lazy second rate banks put a un-needed delay/fee's on wire transfers
2958  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Descending Family Tree of Bitcoin on: December 27, 2017, 11:47:41 AM
this is what happens when core puts code in to deliberately ban nodes that are not core. it opens the floodgate of alts. and centralises code control more in favour of core

if core left it for the orphaning mechanism (consensus) to function. then the script kiddies would actually need to re-code alot more, and thus less altcoins would occur.

but now we have this centralised system where the only time the bitcoin network upgrades, is if core have controlled it.

but hey no one cares about decentralisation, they just care about free coins and a false presence of decentralisation which is actually just distribution

'decentralisation is dead, long live coin distribution'
2959  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin fees on: December 12, 2017, 05:04:20 PM
-Major services actually start using SegWit
-The hype dies down and people don't need to desperately send for their trading
-Another scaling solution is implemented

or the protocol starts measuring in 100byte/sat instead of 1byte/sat
lame brain developers think the protocol cant go below 1byte/sat without having to add millisat units if measure. but they are wrong. it can be done, if they really thought about it.

also a new fee priority formulae could be added that actually works.
2960  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Litecoin surpassed Bitcoin at this moment on: December 12, 2017, 04:51:06 PM
Litecoin at this moment is the greatest criptocoin.

I still don't think that investors are giving up on bitcoin despite the congestion in network, many still wait to transact. The reason is because people see and believe that bitcoin would not be dragged down just without a fight to allow them to dump whatever fraction of bitcoin they have. Bitcoin at $17,400 isn't a joke. Etheruem equally gave a fight today, and cryptos are pushing in the money. Grin

bitcoin has LOST its utility appeal. and only has its investment appeal left.

however litecoin with its lower fee's and ability to be used for household transactions has given it the perception of being better than bitcoin.
though many think 'bitcoin cash' bitcoin gold and other bitcoin offshoots dominate.. they all lack the main thing.. utility.

if things like bitpay and coinbases merchant shopping cart api's were to take on a new coin. that coin would surpass all others in the utility perception. and right now it looks like litecoin is getting close to that
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