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5561  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BUg Unlimited - newb here on: March 22, 2017, 12:25:06 AM
i hope the subtle hint is not too subtle here...(i did write the hint in more codified manner but then chose to make it more layman understandable)

Code:
core developers: "ill pretend to be independent"
core developers: "i'm not going to help the community, only core"
core developers: "ill pretend to be independant"
core developers: "i'm not going to help the community, i refuse to help BU"
core developers: "BU is not getting support by independent developers."
core developers: "lets abuse BU and say they are centralist because WE refuse to help them as independent devs"

^ logic problem exposed (error code: core is not independent, please contact core vendors @blockstream for solution)
5562  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: "Bitcoin" Unlimited is Already 100% Centralized on: March 21, 2017, 11:57:40 PM
1. jihan has actual control of less than 16%
2. BU work with NODE and POOL consensus, the only group wanting bilateral splits is the core group should BU get a majority.
3. if it could be triggered at any % it would have already
4. bu has not made threats, has no bip9 orphan block code, no UASF ban node/orphan block code and no chang mining algo code.. thats all core crap
5. bu has been running for 2 years with no deadlines. no threatsand will continue waiting for bitcoin hard(node and pool) consensus to limit orphan risk
6. all i see is that jihan said "accelerate".. no threat. just maybe something like make a official date of some official voting event period

many people dont grasp the terms hard vs soft very well..
this is because the sheep script writers have only mentioned best case scenario of the umbrella term soft and worse case for hard. and falsely make it seem that those are the only two options

Quote
clarity

soft and hard is simply:
soft: pool only vote
hard: nodes and pools vote

below these umbrella terms is what could happen.. in both hard and soft it can either continue as one chain. or bilateral split
softfork: consensus - >94% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: small 5% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced and dead
softfork: controversial - >50% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: long big% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced and dead
softfork: bilateral split - intentionally ignoring/banning opposing rules and not including them. result: 2 chains

hardfork: consensus - >94% nodes, then >94% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: 5% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced / dead
hardfork: controversial - >50% nodes, then >50% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: big% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced / dead
hardfork: bilateral split - intentionally ignoring/banning opposing rules and not including them. result: 2 chains


the 20 exchange announcement was
if there was a CONTENTIOUS FORK (meaning controversial which then triggers core to open up their ban hammer) bu would be treated as the alt by not having majority..
but
if consensus occurs (the thing BU have in mind all along..) with BU having majority core actually becomes the altcoin.

bitfinex actually went into deeper detail
core having minority core = BCC
BU having minority bu=BCU
devil is in the details of the announcement... "contentious"
https://twitter.com/bitfinex/status/843226656940679170


once you get past the softbest:hardworse fatal flaw of FUD.. and realise that there are consensus options for both and split options for both.. things get clearer

5563  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The BUcoin chinese-funded trojan horse exposed on: March 21, 2017, 10:22:17 PM
The Core proposal is: Let the "node network" be centralization, but allow centralization at the "payment system" level.

The BU proposal is: Let the "payment system" be decentralized, but allow decentralization at the "node network" level.


FTFY

CORE want core to own bitcoin and be the upper controlling tier of upstream filters and all code requiring core(blockstream) approval.. and have the better ln hubs, and controlling the base block to FORCE people to use LN

non-core want diverse nodes of many brands on one single PEER network. and LN being voluntary side services that anyone can make
5564  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: @RogerVer lets make a deal. At least 60k, my BTU for your BTC. on: March 21, 2017, 08:14:23 PM
post removed
post made by btc_broker not roger
= roger not even making a bet

im guessing in 2 minutes the reddit trolls will make some big deal about how roger made a bet and the renigged
or how roger instigated a bet
or how roger asked for a bet

any troll can make a post asking for a free house and a asian wife.. doesnt mean they will get it.
making this topic pointless

i thought it was made by loaded.

the origin (reddit post)
@RogerVer lets make a deal, 1 for 1 trade. At least 60k, possibly up to 130k, my BTU for your BTC. (self.Bitcoin)
submitted 2 hours ago by btc_brokerredditor
[removed]
    comment
    share
5565  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: @RogerVer lets make a deal. At least 60k, my BTU for your BTC. on: March 21, 2017, 08:05:22 PM
post removed
post made by btc_broker not roger
= roger not even making a bet

im guessing in 2 minutes the reddit trolls will make some big deal about how roger made a bet and the renigged
or how roger instigated a bet
or how roger asked for a bet

any troll can make a post asking for a free house and a asian wife.. doesnt mean they will get it.
making this topic pointless
5566  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BU an actual threat? on: March 21, 2017, 07:32:13 PM

Again, you are wrong.  ETH/ETC was/is a hard fork.  There is no more perfect example of a hard fork.  One group of people wanted to "change the rules" the other group did not.  So they went their separate ways on separate block chains.  That is the definition of a hard fork.

hard BILATERAL SPLIT fork

google: --oppose-dao-fork

lets even quote cores immortal lord and master
What you are describing is what I and others call a bilateral hardfork-- where both sides reject the other.

I tried to convince the authors of BIP101 to make their proposal bilateral by requiring the sign bit be set in the version in their blocks (existing nodes require it to be unset). Sadly, the proposals authors were aggressively against this.

The ethereum hardfork was bilateral, probably the only thing they did right--

too many people think that soft = 1 thing and hard =1 thing.
but infact you can have splits done by going soft or hard.
but infact you can have controversy done by going soft or hard.
but infact you can have concensus done by going soft or hard.

but the propaganda machine just talks and wants to think of soft best case scenario and hards worse case, to fit a scenario of the narrator

but this should clear it up
Quote
clarity

soft and hard is simply:
soft: pool only vote
hard: nodes and pools vote

below these umbrella terms is what could happen.. in both hard and soft it can either continue as one chain. or bilateral split
softfork: consensus - >94% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: small 5% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced and dead
softfork: controversial - >50% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: long big% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced and dead
softfork: bilateral split - intentionally ignoring/banning opposing rules and not including them. result: 2 chains

hardfork: consensus - >94% nodes, then >94% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: 5% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced / dead
hardfork: controversial - >50% nodes, then >50% pools no banning/ignoring of minority. result: big% orphan drama then one chain. minority unsynced / dead
hardfork: bilateral split - intentionally ignoring/banning opposing rules and not including them. result: 2 chains
5567  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BU an actual threat? on: March 21, 2017, 07:12:49 PM
BU (and other non-core implentations) have been running for 2 years
made no threats, no demands, have no over zealous banning mechanisms.. it is just plodding along allowing the network to rmain diverse and have a choice of independence that is not core dictated.

several other implementations are compatible too. making it not a threat to bitcoin because these independent implementations are not going to activate unless they know that both pools and nodes want it.

hence why so far they have not activated anything contentiously... (because they have already been offered a split, but refused)


so there are no user threats, no blackmails no deadlines due to bu or other non-core implementations. just open choice. if it doesnt activate, it doesnt activate.. if it does its because the majority chose it.

simple


however its core with the zealous banscores, the bip9 orphan triggers and tier topology of upstream filters, the UASF threat the change of PoW threat. the actively pushing the fee war up by removing reactive fee estimate to average fee.. removing priority. all to then bribe users with discounts

so while core get sh*t scared that they could lose their tier network control and have to possibly join consensus of an equal playing field of consensus. or.. their preference trigger their own split.

core just hope to scream doomsdays and poke the bear/rock the boat to make it seem like core are the victims of their own splitting away..

much like core gave pools the vote and now playing victim card of "the pools control the vote" and now "we must starve the pools by taking their PoW lunch from them unless they vote for us"(blackmail)

all while dynamic implementations are just plodding along allowing the network to rmain diverse and have a choice of independence that is not core dictated.
5568  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Has Bitcoin Unlimited been tested extensively/properly? on: March 21, 2017, 06:52:13 PM
I will take my chances and say no, because If they did, they would've find out about the crashing nodes bug[1] before someone use it to take all nodes down.

a few nodes went down but the network went on..
.. no bad isses of causing orphan drama or destroying transactions or double spends.

cant say the same thing about the leveldb bug of 2013 Cheesy


is core perfect:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues
^ seems not
5569  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Meni Rosenfield speaks: "I support Core" on: March 21, 2017, 06:43:14 PM
core concept: be a sheep because rich people are jumping in fields.

if your only choosing core because another person said so. then your just sheep following richer sheep.

instead:
read code, learn consensus look at what is happening behind the sheep scripts.

look at the desperate motives of getting "big names" with money to wave their asses for kisses..
core want a corporate TIER network  not a diverse open decentralised PEER network.

so bas what core should be based on bitcoins ethos of NOT being fiat. and instead remaining open and decentralised using consensus.

by choosing just because Rich guy said so. then you have failed to grasp what bitcoin is about and you might as well just go play with fiat
5570  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: the real Bitcoin debate and why the market always wins on: March 21, 2017, 05:55:53 PM
IMO it's a problem for the community as a whole, while anyone can be a node so normal users can still have a vote in things, the possibility of "fake" nodes being hosted by sides of the fork to skew numbers is increasingly higher

and nodes can ban obvious sybil nodes by ip banning certain 'servers'
5571  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: the real Bitcoin debate and why the market always wins on: March 21, 2017, 05:38:27 PM
What you just stated is incorrect in response to my statement.

You are talking about signaling for proposed protocol changes and then
after that change, how that "new protocol" chain is built upon.

What you have failed to address, which is my statement, is that in order for
miners to get a new protocol change, they need a node network that supports
their protocol change. Miners without a decentralized validator node network is
not a blockchain nor a cryptocurrency. What you described is like a OneCoin scam.

Nakamoto Consensus as it was envisioned in the Whitepaper stopped being true
when ASICs forced the separation between Mining and Validating. Today, Miners
if they wanted to, do not need to validate to mine. The Validator Node network
currently holds them to some semi-validation. Without them, miners can build
invalid blocks without recourse.

Nakamoto Consensus was based on 1 CPU = 1 Vote. When 1 CPU = 1 Vote stopped
being applicable, Nakamoto Consensus either ended, or morphed into what I am
saying, depending on your viewpoint. Today, we call it simply "Consensus" (since
"Nakamoto Consensus" essentially failed).


node consensus still exists.

nodes can still orphan blocks.
this is why core INTENTIONALLY decided to avoid node consensus.

do not confuse CORES intentions of giving only pools the vote. with how the 3 dimensional symbiotic secure of consensus works.

nodes can still block and ban off anything segwit if they wanted to.
this is why segwit  has their segwit pstream tier network to strip blocks to 'fake it' to appear as a block that follows old rules to fake it passed nodes. but nodes can ip ban segwit filter nodes if they so wish to.

much like segwit can ban and orphan non segwit nodes and blocks.
5572  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Lunacy of BTU Supporters on: March 21, 2017, 04:35:29 PM
dymanics has the hard consensus of nodes and pools. which means NODES can vote against pools.
Here you go again.  If pools want A, and they have a serious $$$ stake in A, and the currently active nodes want B, what stops pools to fire up 3 times more nodes voting A for a tiny fraction of $$$ ?

because that centralised mindset is just handing a hotpotato around nodes itself own...

not the nodes of merchants who have orphaned that block.
not the nodes of users who have orphaned that block.

pools can sybil themselves all they like.. end result is they are just playing with themselves in their own room.. while the rest of the network are getting good blocks from the other 19 pools that are following rules acceptable to the community.

Did you still not understand that proof of work was invented to avoid vote by node, because the above Sybil attack is far too easy ?

bitcoin doesnt just have one layer of protection. it has atleast 10.
nodes, coin holders that dont run nodes, and pools.. work in unison of consensus (symbiotic relationship of consent) to agree on a set of rules.
EG a low node count cannot change what pools accept
EG a low pool count cannot change what node accept
a low node or low pool count cannot change what coin holders accept

real consensus is about majority of the community

your thinking too 2 dimensionally about 1 security feature and expressing its flaw.
but your not seeing the bigger 3 dimensional overview of the other security features

And don't confuse users (people exchanging coins for value in the market)  with nodes again...
P.S stop thinking that nodes are not users. because your missing the big picture
5573  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Lunacy of BTU Supporters on: March 21, 2017, 04:20:59 PM
you argue
Nonsense. Mining is centralized by "do this, or else meet my hashrate".
but then slap your own argument down with
Ultimately they are easily replaceable,
so which is it.


dynamics has the hard consensus of nodes and pools. which means NODES can vote against pools.

its CORE that have bypassed nodes consent(going soft).
i think your more angry at pools because of something that core actually caused. but not willing to admit a choice core made by going soft that backfired.
you wont admit core went wrong by going soft and giving pools the only vote because you want to remain ademant that core are kings and gods.

your also thinking that devs are immortal and will be around for the next 100 years and bitcoin cannot survive without your special immortant team of kings.

wake up to your own fairy tale your clinging onto

devs do come and go, devs do switch teams.
dvs move onto different projects all the time.. so devoting your desire towards a dev, instead of the longevity of whats right for bitcoin and the community is your own failure
5574  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: the real Bitcoin debate and why the market always wins on: March 21, 2017, 04:09:12 PM
The small blockers have already failed.

If they were right, the community would not be divided or talk serious about a hard fork.

segwit = core(blockstream) job security of their Tier network they want. and able to slide in trojans more easily(going "soft will be easier") without node/pool votes due to use of bribes(fee discount) and blackmails(PoW algo changes) to try getting them to that point.

where as dynamics, with simple lines of code changes which many implementations (bar core hesitant group) have already got, allows diverse peers to work with consensus so that they are all on the same playing field where both node and pools have to come to an agreement else it wont change.

5575  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] SegWit (BTC) vs Bitcoin Unlimited (BTU): Which Would You Choose? on: March 21, 2017, 03:32:43 PM
Bla Bla Bla Bla, here we have another day with uber troll Franky1, the PAID SHILL co-worker from RogerCoin camp.

lol im actualy independant, thats why peple have failed to pigeon hole me.
im all for dynamics and a peer network..
i detest cores corporate tier network owned by blockstream and the other DCG invested corporations

BU is not the only implementation that wants dynamics. so you have failed because you think its just a BU verses core debate.

its a community of many independent implementations on a peer network vs the blockstream tier control

i do however find that you cant rebuttal the context of my post, but instead just throw out an insult or empty rebuttle, thinking that it disproves what i have said.

empty arguments are boring. try to disprove the context of the message next time.
5576  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Proof of work debate? Threatened 51% attack due to fork debate on: March 21, 2017, 03:23:28 PM
If we change PoW, we change who the miners are. Don't you like that idea? I do

if PoW changes.. then it is just backdating security of bitcoin temporarily and in a few months the pools will be back where they are at the top but this time with a new asic/machine to make block creation more efficient than 'solo mining'.

EG if it went to a 1node 1 vote.. pools will simply make an asic/machine that acts like several clustered nodes syndicated together.

end result is just a couple months of drama until things are in the same position as now.

edit: (couple seconds running scenarios in my head)
infact less than a couple months. because the time it would take to get majority node acceptance of a new mining algo/difficulty/hashing rule..
pools would have the time to design the efficient solution to be ontop right when it activates.. thus solving nothing
5577  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The BUcoin chinese-funded trojan horse exposed on: March 21, 2017, 03:15:22 PM
The miners deciding things on their own == attack.

CORE gave pools the only vote.. core have themselves to blame.
emphasis: (lauda repeat 3 times until it sinks in): CORE gave pools the only vote. CORE gave pools the only vote. CORE gave pools the only vote.

core should instead.

not blackmail pools with algo chaning threats.
but instead do a HARD (node and pool) CONSENSUS (actual full community vote/choice to adopt or not)


not blackmail nodes with UASF banscore threats or their TIER network by hard(node and pool) bilateral split
but instead do a HARD (node and pool) CONSENSUS

and if core still dont get their way, just accept that their way is not wanted. and do something the community do want, without bribes(fee discount) without blackmail, without threat
5578  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Lunacy of BTU Supporters on: March 21, 2017, 03:06:11 PM
commanded by a mining cartel

lol
core are getting desparate to force segwit.
1. take nodes vote away
2. take pools vote away
3. give full control to core.

wak up to your own hypocrisy. if only one implementation (core) is running.. then there is no decentralisation.

core need to man up and realise
if they know nodes vote wont activate segwit(thus needing to bypass node vote by going soft) they know users dont want it
if they know pools vote wont activate (thus needing to blackmail with PoW change) they know pools dont want it

they should just instead of bribe(fee discount), or tweaking the elections(going soft),or blackmail(PoW algo change) they should just try something different the community will accept

5579  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The BUcoin chinese-funded trojan horse exposed on: March 21, 2017, 02:59:14 PM
im guessing with gmaxwell being the moderator of bitcoin discusssion and also part of the acceptance of features that get added to core. you cant really hide cores puppet string masters..
If you mean this section in particular, then your statement is wrong. AFAIK he spends little time moderating anyways.

you failed with your attempt to brush all the other area's gmaxwell and his employees are moderating under the carpet. (mailing list/bips/irc) to try hiding gmaxwells control reach of bitcoin proposals, to ensure blockstream set the agenda.
5580  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Lunacy of BTU Supporters on: March 21, 2017, 02:39:52 PM
bu or any other dynamic implementations have NOT set any threatening deadlines
and NOT added anything that would intentionally banscore nodes off the network
and NOT gone 'full wetard' to even threaten removing PoW.
(by core refusing to add a few lines to be part of the peer network that could be dynamic, they will banscore themselves off the network by rejecting majority consensus)
core only want their own TIER network and have gone 'full wetard' to try getting it

SEGWIT rely on ONLY pools vote
dynamics implementations needs nodes AND pools, otherwise nodes will just orphan off the blocks in 3 seconds and stick with things as they are now(as displayed last month).

CORE actively and intentionally bypassed node consensus by going soft.
core have all the ban hammers,
core set the deadlines
core set threats of pool orphaning with bip9,
core set more threats with UASF
core set more threats with changing PoW

it is core that dont want community free choice.. its either get into segwit or have bitcoin ruined into something no longer bitcoin
(total rewrite, different keypair types different mempool strange formation, different full tx data formation, different tier node topology, different 'mining algo)

however dynamic implementations are compatible with several different implementation 'brands' using just a few lines of code.
set no limit
set no agenda,
dont have zealous banscores
havnt threatened anything.

they are just plodding along for the last two years letting natural consensus do its thing.
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