you keep on trying to push the thought of the value being the price to explain the price..

please separate them as 2 different numbers

forget the price for one moment.

the value is the bottomline. the underpinning. the base. the number no one can get any lower than..
so on the whole planet right now the cheapest someone can acquire bitcoin for .. is the value line
and only a few lucky people get to acquire bitcoin for that.

no one can get bitcoin for less right now. and thus thats the value line right now..
emphasising the underlined words above. they are important and the point

the point of the lack of people able to get bitcoin for less. becomes the very thing that sets the line that no one can get for less. thus becomes the safety zone.the security blanket,  the lock. the bottom. the deadend. the wall.. the metal fence. that keeps all other users above and thus. its the thing that people see as the security assurance and backing bitcoin value because if no one can get it for less. then the risk of it going less is negligible

above that is all the random speculations, the volatility. where different people have different costs of acquiring coin. where by in japan if they wanted to mine. it would be about $90k a coin. so they prefer to buy at anything below $90k..
some lucky people with good contacts with miners at the cheap end dont have to mine themselves to get btc nearer to $13k they just buy asic farms daily/weekly allotment of reward at a agreed/negotiated amount close to $13k that they can both accept off-market. and others buy at the whims of the volatile market depending on the speculative circumstance of whatever the price is (right now between 13k to $9k window) the price is ~$24k

in short the current price is in that speculative area above value. and below the premium

now when you look at the 4 year cycle of bitcoin. where the price moves crazy up and down in random zig-zag
you will see that the value(not seen on a market price graph) has a more steady incremental rise
..
as for the whole 'circulation is 90% complete..
bitcoins price and value is not based on all coins in circulation.
bitcoins price is not based on the 19m coin.
its not even based on 5m coins
the price is based on a small subset of coins that are deposited into an exchange. where by even the deposited coins are not all attributing to the market price because some coins are just balance in a custodian..
a smaller subset of the deposited coins that actually sit on the market order book of active orders attribute to the market price. not the entire 19m circulation

as for the value
i personally have coins from 2012 acquired for about $6 each.
yet as time goes on and i shift coins around or spend them . due to the price and value changes over time. i no longer consider my old coins valued at $6 still. because as i spend or move them i am seeing the current values along the time change, and the price change where i can get more for my coin or it costs me more to acquire more coin which changes the value of them

there are many charts around not based on the cost at mining where it keeps the value at the mining cost of the coins creation throughout. but instead it alters the 'realised value' each time a utxo is spent because logic and economics shows and proves that when funds are moved peoples valuation of that spend/receipt move. as time passes value and price change

EG
imagine you(if old enough or your parent earned $10 for 3 hours work in 1981 (min wage $3.35/hour)
and it could buy them 377 loaves of bread at that time..
now imagine its 2022 and he found that same bank note under a sofa cushion. that exact same physical bank note

is that bank note still valued as 3 hours of labour, if they were to pay some landscaper to mow his lawn.. nope
they might only get 10minutes of freelance professional lawn mowed or a hour of minimum wage guy

can they still buy 37 loaves of bread with it if they went to a grocery store, nope

and so although that physical bank note was worth 3hours labour/37 loaves.. today its not

certain few people (theres about a dozen main instigators) pretend they are the whole community. and they only listen to their own like minded mindsets that confirmation bias each other to pat each other on the back, and kiss each others ass when they repeat the same mantra their buddies have said.

these certain individuals have for hundreds of posts in many topics been trying to tell thousands of other people that bitcoin is broke or not fit for purpose. trying to then advertise a service or subnet as the solution that everyone should  use. even though these services/subnets cause more issues for people.
locking value up with middlemen to then play around with and then give back value at a later time. where by these services/subnets actually red flag users value.

the vile part is in 2 motives
1: they dont like/want regular people just using bitcoin. and they shout out many stupid reasons why they think bitcoin is unfit. yet they are happy to bloat up bitcoin with nonsense data and mixer data thats not actually buying a product or good or paying a proper recipient.. but instead just more wasted tx for their silly shuffling of utxo in and out of their promoted middlemen service or subnet that they love and admire and advertise so much

yep they would rather have 2x 1500byte(3kb) of confidential nonsense data added to a block(their next promotion is to add the monero confidential bloat). so that 1 guy can hide his malicious activity, rather than have 12x 250byte(3kb) of 12 people just buying their daily life stuff

2: mainly they have an incessant effort of lying and exaggerating to say how they think bitcoin is broke, not fit. and/or already 100% dirty. just to try to scare normal clean people into getting dirty and enter the swamps of dirt(their promoted services/subnets) with them just so they can have a better chance of escaping their swamps with other peoples clean coin and leave/hand off to other people the muck they want to leave behind

they know less than 1% use subnetworks like LN and mixers. they know that this small swamp pool of users are just stirring value amongst themselves, shuffling the same value between each other..  and they know that it not helping them look clean if only dirty people are jumping into the swamp. so they are desperate to lie, deceive and exaggerate some weird fantasy utopian dream about their service/subnet. and then they also try endlessly to call out bitcoin as the nightmare, just so they can scare people into jumping into their swamp

m0nce nice try to poke a derailment to avoid the nonsense oeleo keeps spewing out
ill just say this
bitcoin never leaves the bitcoin network. (fact, thats the beauty of the security)
whether its balance on an exchange mysql database.
whether its another unit of measure pegged at 1:1000 rate or 1:1 rate on another network.. those are not bitcoin thus someone somewhere owes you real bitcoin on the bitcoin network at a later date when they broadcast a real bitcoin transaction to the bitcoin network

..
as for what oeleo said. the bit he was quoting is gudelines for a vasp.. lets call it vaspA where the quoted bit from FAFT is saying if vasp A is sending or receiving from another VASP where that VASP is not conducting KYC then treat the funds coming from the VASP as suspect
(this has nothing to do with random coins from users own wallets. its about funds coming from another exchange)
so oeleo is trying to pretend it means its about all coins from all sources of all wallets/users. but its not.
he is trying to exaggerate/make up and fake and pretend and lie about many things to falsely suggest that all coins are red flagged by default. but they are not



while you lot are trying to stir the social drama about taint.
what you lot are ignoring(still) is it doesnt matter of source of funds before a mixer.. its the use of the mixer itself that puts a red flag on a utxo, which gets put on a watchlist(wher they can then look back at movements before he mix)
and those receiving funds from a mixer are red flagged. where that utxo is put on a watch list and they can follow the movements after the mixer

so no matter the source pre mix.. your on a watchlist. thus people are watching you.

and yes there is a established list of what causes a red flag

aww .. new misdirect tactic from oeleo
now trying to convince that people to not care about taint.. with his new delusion that all coins are already "bad"
(reality is no they are not, not even 1% are considered this. he has been told now in many topics of similar subject this. so he cant play ignorant or pretend he had sudden amnesia)


guess he realised his first game failed
but lets play his new game,.

to pretend rules dont apply and be ignorant..
thinking ignorance of rules by pretending rules are made up will save people..

you cant get away with murder by saying "i didnt know it was a crime i thought that law was made up because some guy on a forum said it was made up"

sorry oeleo
but rules DO exist. and people can be hurt if they dont know the rules.

if a country has a rule thats says "no sex on the beach".. and all the beach police are looking out for people having sex on the beach. where they are trained to watch out for acts like dry humping.. as a suspicious activity

out of all the thousands of people sunbathing. if they see you dry humping.. they will start to watch you. and yes they will keep an eye on all your movements.. and if they look closer to you to get a better look at you and see you are actually having sex on the beach. expect more issues.

your ignorance doesnt amaze me, i have seen your ignorance in most of your posts.

but please stop your vile crappy mindset that will and does cause other people to get into trouble
(beach analogy: you think if you can get all sunbathers to enter into an orgy, or have a fantasy dream that all sunbathers are already having an orgy. then you believe that the rule then doesnt apply or you can dismantle the law).. sorry real world does not work that way..
instead trying to entice random sunbathers to enter into an orgy. gets them in trouble and actually could get you in further trouble for pushing them into joining an orgy

its as if you want people to get into trouble on purpose.. so that you can come back and say 'oh look people got in trouble, i told you this would happen'.. eventhough you would be the main cause of their troubles if they dared follow your crap

---

how about you go play on your altnet/mixers where only a small sub1% of users play with each other. and swap value between themselves...
stir your value in your dark swamps with other people that want to swim in dirty swamps.
stop trying to get normal clean users to jump into your swamps in the hopes that you can drown them as you try to claw your way out taking their clean pants as you escape the swamp

not all coins are red flagged
less than 0.25% are red flagged

but using "privacy enhancing tools/networks" will earn you a red flag
yep using mixers, tumblers, LN, monero, liquid will earn you a red flag.

so people SHOULD actually learn what causes a red flag thus chances of being on a SAR report. so that they can learn what to avoid

its not about pretending all bitcoins are red flagged. (oeleo's latest nonsense)
its about know about what services and tools to avoid

look at the desperate idiot trying everything he can to try to say that every coin is red flagged already just so that he can try to advertise his mixers (which are red flag triggers) by saying that in his warped mind that coins are already red flagged so everyone needs to use a mixer to clean them

his reality is warped backwards and twisted

he has no clue and just wants to advertise services/middle men that cause bitcoiner more delays, issues. costs, and headaches.

very vile person very vile indeed

governments will continue to measure their citizen labour force in fiat
with minimum wage laws, tax laws, court fines, bail and compensation laws measured in whatever currency a government prefers

where by crypto is treated the same as investments, shares and pension plans.

lets emphasise things
unless an exchange has received a COURT ORDER from a court to confiscate coins and pass onto courts/regulators as temporary guardians of the confiscated coins, which then ends up in the user having to go to court to prove innocence.. .. again until that point. a exchange cannot confiscate your coins

they can however at just the red flag level. limit your use of their service (not allow you access to the exchange order book to buy/sell..) but you still have and legally should have access to view balance and request to withdraw said balance and close account. which should be honoured within a reasonable time.

some exchanges try to implement their own business terms of service to try to suggest that by agreeing to become a user of their exchange you agree to not sue them if they dont allow you to get a withdrawl to close account. where they pretend it forces you into only being able to seek a resolution through THEIR arbitration systems. but if they breach their own rules especially the regulators rules you can still sue them in court.

it actually is worth reading regulations and exchanges own terms and conditions just so you can learn how to operate in a manner to avoid the headaches of regulations and business terms

you do know they were independent for thousands of years before the brits invaded

it should be "happy prison release anniversary"
(im british white, but even i see the irony in calling it an independence day)

if you were free for as long as you can remember, and then locked up by someone that came in and put shackles on you.. put rules on you.. and then one day you were no longer under it. thats more like prison release not independence

india never actually NEEDED Britain. they were not dependant on britain. thus it was not an event of becoming independent (from a point of dependant)

each country has its own laws
thre is not really a big international financial law and financial "police"/taskforce

EG EU financial laws and US financial laws are separate
where EU exchanges follow EU laws and US exchanges follow US laws

since ~2014 a few exchanges moved away from the us and set up in south america to escape the grubby hands of having to comply with US laws.

but here is the easiest thing
because EU and US laws dont like businesses that call themselves mixers... simple solution.. stop calling them businesses mixers.
get smarter about how you define such tools. much like how uber escaped the US regulations of taxi cab's while still offering a service that does a function that taxicabs do

take facebook
everyone knows what facebook does.
but how they define themselves helps them control what rules apply to them
EG in america they delare themselves as a social media. to escape the advertising and financial regulations of facebooks advertising/financial features. and also defend themselves under "free speach" by saying they are a social media company

in ireland (no tax) they define themselves as a financial service

and in other countries they define themselves as a advertising company. in countries that have lax advertising restrictions

that way if america wanted to sue facebook for some advertising thing. they have to file that in the country thats defined as the advertising arm of facebook. where that jurisdiction has no/not many laws that facebook could be in breach of and thus cant really be found guilty

its why all the funds and profit sit in ireland so that america cant claim tax on the profits.

researching. learning and understanding does not mean supporting it

being ignorant and not willing to learn is a way of you defeating yourself
EG if a boxer does not know his opponents moves a boxer cannot learn how to defend himself

so learn things . research things. then you wont get defeated so easily

.. but yet again.. your point was not to try and prove i support something or pigeon hole me into some silly natative you made up.. (not an orgininal tactic by your group).. you again are just pointing aimless fingers of distraction just to not accept the reality that.. your buddy group idolise the DCG.. where its the DCG that are actually involved in lobbying for regulations so that they can operate legitimately
its funny how you completely wish to avoid any negative speak about them..

so take your cries and finger pointing to them. your kiss ass love and adoration should have atleast earned you a few minutes talk time with them to vent your frustrations about their actions in regards to lobbying for regulations and accepting payments from regulators

and please. stop being a pedantic idiot and actually take the time to learn things


you want to pretend this means all coins are suspect(facepalm)
no its not about saying all utxos are suspect.
its a guidance for vasps.. where a vasp reading it and sees that it is receiving funds from a vasp...
its a guidance for vasps.. where a vasp reading it and sees that it is sending funds to a vasp...
where that vasps CDD or KYC processes are demonstrably weak or non-existent.

it means when funds are moved between vasps if one vasp is not following its CDD/KYC processes or doesnt comply at all even when it should. then treat funds coming from them as suspicious.


however.. by you and your buddies trying to do silly adverts of scare stories and fear to try and get everyone to use a mixer(known red flag) YOU and your buddies are trying to cause all coins to get flagged.

yep your malicious greedy immature and naive games are that your small swamp of 0.25% flags that your utxo's sit in. you fear you might be caught oneday because your in a small swamp of people that use mixers.

so instead of trying to think of a real solution such as stop swimming in swamps. you instead want the whole community to jump into your swamp in the hopes you can hide better by having everyones utxo put on a watch list. while then play more distracting games to pretend/scare/lie to everyone by saying they already are in a swamp because [insert your misunderstand/misrepresenting dumb games].
hard facts shows not everyone is in your swamp.
(1700tx a  block ~10k an hour ~89,250,000 a year yet.. there are not 89m SAR reports generated a year from crypto)

 but you just care about fooling people to jump into your swamp of flagged utxo(caused by you using a mixer) under your false pretence that they already are..
which again makes you a very vile person

regulatory defined it as currency
which allowed them to have the SEC regulate businesses that operate with btc
it kinda started around 2014 with the 'bitlicence' getting involved and started the regulatory financials systems of fiat to start getting their grubby hands on the businesses that operate at the edges of bitcoin.

they are also now trying to convert it to being a 'commodity' so that the CFTC can regulate businesses and services that operate with btc*

by knowing these things and then learning the regulations, you can then learn the loopholes to work around things

EG
SEC/FAFT have regulations where they list mixers as a suspicious tool
so the secret is STOP ADVERTISING MIXERS.

instead create a new tool which functions as a "property rights protection" tool... thus not applicable under their suspicious tool list

by continually using the terms/words/tool of what regulators deem should be restricted. you then allowing that feature/tool to become restricted

again much like how uber never called themselves a taxi company
or how facebook called itself a social media, instead of an advertising company

common sense says obviously uber is a taxi company and facebook is more of an advertising company. but by those companies avoiding the use of those words in describing their functions, the taxi/advertising regulations didnt impede those companies as much

..
*bitcoin because of the new locks(2017 feature) now allows bitcoin to be seen as a raw base item that can produce other things from it(sidechains, subnets, coloured coins, and many other things)
(like commodities where a raw material is used to create secondary products)
thus now due to all the sidechains and subnets. bitcoin is from a regulatory prospecting becoming defined as a commodity by which the CFTC can get their grubby hands around the edges.

---

there are 3 sides to it.
there are those that want secret 'cash like' system that is private property which no one should be able to confiscate or steal for any reason and the owner of the private property has full control of

there are the mainstreamers that want it to be a currency anyone can use including financial institutions that manage pension funds (which requires accountability and clean utility without criminal exposure going to far)

there are the other group that want to create new derivatives and subnets and new products backed by btc

the issue is i see the first group.. pandering to the second group by using the second groups terminology, thus losing the features the first group wanted. (hense i said stop using/calling things mixers to pander into having your control taken away, create property right protection tools, which are outside the remit of SEC/FATF)

the issue i see is when the second group. instead of just offering "exchanges" (currency laws) start to say and advertise they offer "futures options" they are then allowing the commodity laws to apply to those businesses.
(Commodity Futures Trading Commission | CFTC)

so if you learn what the regulations are. and then find out what is not in their lists.. you find the loop hole by which you can then make tools for, that are not regulated or required to be regulated

making software is not a crime
but being involved with facilitating criminals, especially wilfully knowing, is criminal (aiding and abetting)
there is a fine line.. distinctiual difference. which then gets messy where only solution ends up to arrest, charge and then let the suspect defend himself in court to defend himself.. which in of itself is a headache too far for some to want to step into

....
anyway, moving the topic along..

this is not about defending fiat or elitists. this is fact of life stuff.. with things people should think about. using rational thought not conspiracy/anger

money, value, wealth has never been a protected right under privacy.
so knowing certain people use the word "privacy" actually end up looking suspicious when using privacy tools
(a hard notion for people to understand.. but its a fact of life)

shouting out you have a right to privacy in regards to money. is a losing game when it comes to courts, regulators, governments.

so think smart.. think:
"property rights" - a different name. but it has advantages
"Property rights give the owner or right holder the ability to do with the property what they choose. That includes holding on to it, selling or renting it out ..."

create tools that are not branded "privacy enhancing".. thus evade the regulations that oppose privacy.
and instead make "property rights" protection tools

that way not only can you get the same end result of protecting yourself, but you then have some legal standing to legally uphold your rights

..
think of how people can create NDA's and private contracts, etc, which even courts cant easily invade.
property rights have had a long history back thousands of years. much better protected right than the fantasy belief people have thinking they have modern economic privacy rights

by calling things by names known to be suspicious/illegal in regulation such as privacy enhancing/mixers. you are allowing them control and losing your control. by causing people that create and use these tools to be considered suspicious

be smart. think about the loop holes of regulation
..
much like UBER avoided calling their service a taxicab service. thus stepped around the regulations of taxicabs

so stop advertising or pushing everyone to use "privacy enhancing tools" which get people into regulatory trouble
instead create and advertise "property right protection" tools.
as a step forward in using the loopholes.

..
when bitcoin was legally declared a currency. circa2014, yes the positive was more recognition, but the negative was having currency laws applied to crypto. yep it was no longer thought of as property and instead as currency where different laws apply

so. take back and flip the jurisdictional control. to keep regulators out of certain things. redefine things back to the good old days of 2009-2014 where features of property ownership were the virtues and features of bitcoin

---

"mixers" like money mules are about laundering/shuffling money.
yes they are used to remove tracking. but their main purpose is to avoid economic tracking. something that economic laws dont perceive as a right.

so dont play into government/regulators games of doing things that they list as worthy of investigating
much like how the FATF and SEC do not regulate pokemon cards. because pokemon trading. or card shufflers are not described as privacy tools. even though what they do functionally is to swap ownership without requiring ID or tracking

playing into the jurisdictions of governments by defining a blockchain as:
crypto-currency: then allows an entry by governments to apply currency laws to it

however by starting to think of a blockchain/subnet(not the units/property inside a blockchain/subnet)as:
res nullius: (Open-access property is owned by nobody), and then describe the units inside a rus nullius blockchain as "private property" sets a blockchain and units of account .. under a different path outside the currency jurisdiction..

in short. think about bringing back the good old days of 2009-2014, before currency laws got involved

firstly, out of interest
as a boots-on-the-ground bitcoin operator. you have experience of seeing the whims of sentiment of many people.
is your ATM just a bitcoin exit (btc->fiat only) or is it a two way ATM (fiat->btc->fiat)

i understand when price goes down everyone goes into hard mode instead of sell mode. but if your ATMS are two way, have you seen any increase in fiat->btc "buys"
dont worry about answering if its just a btc exiter atm system
..

anyways
ive been into bitcoin over 10 years.
in the good old days bitcoin was fun open and free. those days were before it was mainstream deemed as currency so was free from regulations of money laws. thus it allowed alot more freedom and openness to try new things.

in recent years the money elitists have snared their grubby paws on the edges of crypto and changed it, although made it more popular, they also brought with that the regulations that caged bitcoin at the edges(money service businesses)

i personally enjoy having my wealth secured in a sort of 'off shore' system but without the need of middle men bank mangers or lawyers needing to organise my wealth. i can just set up an address and hey, presto. its secure.
i can spend it, i can pass it on to relatives without needing to concern self with taxes, inheritance laws. because while still in crypto no one needs to know anything about who owns what, bitcoin transactions never asks for identity info(ill worry about taxes whe its time to retire in a few decades)

over the years i have seen, helped, and aided many people do many things. and also seen the shady more malicious greedy side of certain people.

but in any community there is good and bad. and bitcoin is better fiat

there are indeed many business opportunities where people can set up a business without the headaches of fiat pains.. EG in fiat you need a business plan just to qualify to open a business account, which also requires a tax office registration, and a business headquarter address just to register a business before you can even get started running.(headache)

where as you can buy and sell products/services in btc and keep value in btc. and then if and when you want to go go through the fiat pains, your already one step ahead and getting the fiat stuff registered then becomes easier and affordable as you have value coming in to cover those costs. thus bitcoin is great for startups to actually start up

firstly your again mixing words

i said CHEAPEST..  but you then say "average"
i said value is the lowest cost(cheapest) and YOU then use a stat that says the PRICE(july15ths $20k) being again wrongly called "value"

stop thinking of the market PRICE as "value"

here is the thing..

if you work out the cheapest mining on the planet. the most efficient asic using the cheapest available electric cost that alot can use. and calculate the cheapest mining cost on the planet..
thats the ultimate bottom of TODAYS cost of mining bitcoin today (no need to distract with the costs of last year or 2009)
its todays best acquisition cost anyone can find of getting bitcoin today..
thus bitcoins underlying value

this is not PRICE.. this is the underlying value

you can also do the same for the most expensive of the recent gen asics and expensive regional cost. and find the top amount. that line where if the price reached it. then everyone on the planet could acquire bitcoin via other means cheaper then the price and thus people give up wanting to buy at the market price if everyone can mine or buy form miners off-market cheaper then the market price

yes you can play games with "average" and mis represent words. but if you understand that there are true costs of acquiring todays allotment of bitcoin. then you can work out the underlying value of todays allotment.
which then shows what todays value is.. and then see that its different to the PRICE

if your talking about the "tornado" saga

he was not arrested for just being a developer
he was arrested for being involved in(law: aiding and abetting) "concealing criminal financial flows and facilitating money laundering"
he was not arrested for making software.. being a developer is not a crime.

lets not go into the ignorance land of conspiracy and fear. and instead stick to research

lets not start last years silly games of pretending any/all software developers will get arrested
(like how the social group of fans of DCG tried to say how 2021 euro laws about money transmitters was aimed at developers/miners(which it wasnt) the rules were about exchanges,mixers and things like LN routing and liquid "federations") that get paid a fee/commission for facilitating the transfer of value on behalf of other people

oh.
and to those that shout "its unconstitutional"
sorry have have to give another reality check and a obvious lesson to learn
the constitution is "american"
the arrests were done in the netherlands. where the constitution does not apply


yep i loved the wild west days of 2009-2014 before a certain group(DCG) got their fingers deep into crypto.
those days wher bitcoin was treated more like a product. where trading it and swapping it was more of the rules of pokemon cards or product/merchant sales and auction houses. that allowed more freedom to doing things

yet the lobby group of big industry(DCG) lobbied for the legitimisation of bitcoin by declaring it a currency by governments.. and the negative effects of that action is now that bitcoin is a legitimate currency... currency laws now apply to crypto.

dont shoot the messenger. just learn from it

the source was a simple google search for the financial action task force's definitions of what THEY find suspicious to cause red flags..
the source was the FATF also known as the regulators (commonly called the finance police)

dont cry to me.
if you want to know what regulators define things as. guess what. you go check regulators definitions
i am not a regulator. i just dont fear things. when i want to know something i research it and find the source.
i dont play ignorant and get angry at people that provide information hoping ignorance makes rules/logic and reality not apply..

so thats just what i did.
linking you the source means you get to learn to. so now.. take a moment to take a breath. and realise what the rules are.. and then start looking at who you should actually be angry at.

i simply linked the regulators list of what they consider suspicious...
cry to them. or go cry to the DCG who are the crypto businesses that pretty much run most of the services that are regulated and lobbied for and against this stuff

but i do laugh how people when they get told that the world is not flat, think that its the human that told them's fault. and to blame the human for how the world works.
sorry but humans did not make the world round. basic logic of billions of years of 'spin' caused it. so blame physics and time and space.

..
heres another real world lesson to learn
bitcoin was great 2009-2014 it was not defined as currency and instead had the same freedoms as trading pokemon cards or colectables.
but as soon as it 'mainstreamed where governments defined it as currency. the negative effect of that is that currency laws then applied to crypto..

and as ognasty said the wild west days of crypto evolved where some things got grandfathered in. like accepting bitcoin as legal,where as other things like monero got considered by regulators currency policies as anonymity enhanced and thus suspicious
as are anonimity enhancing tools like mixers and also altnets that advertise themselves as enhancing privacy. which include (according to THEIR definitions)
"whether it uses mainnet or the use of embedded layering or other scaling
solutions), or the additional services that the platform potentially incorporates
(such as a mixer or tumbler or other potential features for obfuscation)"

thus liquid, LN and other networks that bridge to bitcoin that have features or promoted as obfuscating things
so yea that will include networks that use taproot
..
we dont have to like it. but atleast understanding it is the first step to knowing how to work around it or fight it.

and one funny lesson to learn
the main business services that lobbied for regulation(legitimisation) so that they can work legitimately in the crypto industry are:

coinbase-->DCG  https://dcg.co/portfolio/#c
kraken->DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#k
bitpay->DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#b
circle->https://dcg.co/portfolio/#c
ftx -DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#f
(exchange list goes on for a dozens of prominent exchanges)

and the main businesses that do the tracking and reporting
chainanalysis-> DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#c

are the same group that pay the developers of
bitcoin core (blockstream ->DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#b
monero (blockstream dev created the confidential code that underpins it) -> DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#b
Lightning network ->DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#l
liquid -> DCG https://dcg.co/portfolio/#l

so if you want someone to get angry at for their lobbying efforts. go speak to DCG

seriously!!!!!!
now you are again going pedantic

here is your defined list of things which i did not colour red
"Yes yes yes, red flag causing mixers. Just like red flag causing coinjoins. And red flag causing DEXs. And red flag causing casinos. And red flag causing unlicensed exchanges."
becasue those in th elist above i thought were faily inclusive of the red flag risk. so i accepted you know a bit..

but i then highlighted some in red which were extremely exaggerated and based on your conspiracy ignorance

look at the posts above where i coloured your exaggerations in red..
and your response is to quote one of the items i did not colour red..

that point you quoted from FATF is about VASP that are licenced and dont follow their KYC requirements or unlicenced but should be licenced should be following KYC. due to them lacking providing KYC when the should be..
(AKA whose CDD or know-your-customer (KYC) processes are demonstrably weak or non-existent)

(which is why i did not red highlight your  "And red flag causing unlicensed exchanges.") because i was trying to be fair.

yet your "proof" has nothing to do with any of you things in the red coloured exaggerations.

again i highlighted your silly exaggerations in red. and you decide to pick a quote that refers to something not highlighted in red


go be pedantic with you idols. as they are the ones your angry at. so go point your fingers at them.

you finally read it WOW
amazing. one step forward

funny part is when i quoted your conspiracy bit.. i highlighted and coloured the ones you exaggerate in red..

which is not in your list of things
his are your exaggerations

And red flag causing marketplaces. (actual flags dont say all services)
And red flag causing instant exchangers. (actual list doesnt say instant exchagers)
And red flag causing self hosted payment processors. (actual list does not say about these either)
And red flag causing non-KYCed addresses. (actual list doesnt say this either)
Anything which is not a KYCed account on a centralized exchange is a red flag for the authorities. (nor this)

so the snippets you shown are not proving your exaggerations
you also have yet to put your snippets into context of common sense and logic.. but you took one step forward

so now you have read the REAL list of things to avoid.. your about 3 steps forward.. now dont go backwards and dont head back into ignorance

your welcome

NO THEY ARE NOT
you really have not even bothered to read it have you. you have not even tried to work out what generates a SAR report have you.. you are really ignorant

READ THE REGULATIONS the list of red flag indicators is NOT all the things you listed
GO READ WHAT ARE THE ACTUAL RED FLAG INDICATORS

i have linked you the guidelines MANY TIMES
so dont waste time making crap up.. instead go read actual fact



translation.. you dont care that only 0.25% of coins are redflagged, as long as you can live in some fantasy land pretending your withdrawn coins are not red flagged because in your mind if you ignore what causes a red flag you can pretend red flags dont happen
EG you pretend mixers dont cause red flags or put your transactions onto a watch list by pretending you dont know what a red flag is

however you then pretend that EVERYONE should have their coins red flagged under the delusion that if you can turn your red flag swamp of only a couple dozen candidates an hour to be a ocean of 10,000 candidates an hour then you personally can hide better, even if that means causing headaches and problems for 9975 other people
who then have a spotlight put on them.. (thats just malicious tactic and evil thing to subject people to)



again your delusional distractions are amazing

imagine you deposited funds today from your nefarious source into a mixer
that deposit triggers a red flag on that source. meaning they will look backwards from the deposit back to the nefarious source.. because yep you guessed it. you used a mixer so your on a priority watch list of your deposit

then lets say you got some funds out of a mixer. even if that utxo is X age old. guess what that too is on a red flag watch list. and so that would be watched forward from its withdrawal/spend onwards(!whenever that will be!)

while you want to be pedantic about silly little things.. you forgetting.. YOUR ON A WATCHLIST AND YOUR MOVEMENTS BEFORE THE MIXER AND AFTER THE MIXER have generated TWO SAR reports..
1 for the coins deposited and 1 for the coins withdrawn

those coins are then deemed as untrusted/suspect. no matter how much you want to pretend you are clean.. all for the simple fact that YOU USED A MIXER

again one more time
please read this 10 times and read it slowly.. let the info sink in.

read the regulations to know what are red flags (dont make them up or pretend everything is. or pretend nothing us, due you tyour delusions of ignorance...EG like u just did in the quoted post you made which i highlighted in red.)
instead again READ THE REGULATIONS. learn what actually does cause a red flag. and then use things that dont cause red flags.

you really have acted like a idiot. you have had multiple days to actually do research on red flag causes. and even today you have ultimately shown you have no clue and instead went on some conspiracy fantasy stupidity rant of not knowing what causes SAR reports that go to governments. and instead done all you could to try to defend mixers and pretend that mixers are not red flag events and pretend and push and advertise that everyone should jump into your swamp of suspicion in the hopes that it can hide you better if you fill the swamp

you are vile beyond belief. you would rather have every coin treated as red flag by you getting everyone to use mixers. but then pretend their red flags must have been cause by some fantasy service you dont advertise. rather then actually be a moral ethical person that tries to think up solutions for people to actually evade red flags so that all coins dont get treated as red flags

oh look blackhatcoiner. the guy that screams out fantasy dreams and scary nightmares without doing research

actual fact when customers are just under a watchlist/investigation for suspicious activity an exchange cannot by law confiscate/forfeit your value.

if you done some research you would know this:
if they find you suspicious to a certain level they run an investigation. if it encroaches to a certain threshold, they can limit your access to certain features in their service. but you still have the ability to withdraw your funds and close your account, you just cant do any trading or swaps on the exchange or use other features within the exchange(this is called account suspended)

they can only confiscate(steal) your value if they have raised their concerns to the authorities and the authorities have done an investigation and linked you to a crime that is evidenced enough to prove to a judge that there is enough evidence to file a court order against you.. and only on receipt of the court order can a exchange confiscate funds and pass you onto the courts to defend yourself

of course the easiest way to avoid this headache path if you are a malicious person that raises red flags. is to avoid services like those