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6501  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: So who the hell is still supporting BU? on: January 31, 2017, 06:42:48 PM
as usual C B above is just reading a r/bitcoin script instead of looking at the actual "event"

it was a non event
a simple reject.

what was overdramatic.. was cores response. banning nodes at the sight of a simple reject.
funny part is without banning nodes no one would have seen it as "an event" and instead seen it as just another reject that happens daily, yep even to core.

but nah, core needed an excuse to ban nodes. core needed to cause drama.
kind of smelled like desperation..

the part i found most funniest. is that what it actually proves (if you ignore the core aftershock dramatics) is that consensus works.
the block was rejected in seconds.. event over.
6502  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looking Like The Time of Bitcoin Has Finally Arrived! on: January 31, 2017, 05:32:02 PM
China will not go for Hyperledger, because it's controlled by Western banks. I guess they will develop their own Blockchain technology

and when that is done, they would ban Bitcoin and all other Crypto currencies. Why did they suddenly start to "visit" the Chinese

exchanges, when they left them alone for years? {Capital control}  

look at october 2016.. china joined the IMF SDR..
ill let you research the rabbit hole from there..

hint

hyperledger is not just one ledger. the IMF audits over them, but then splits off to upto 200 subledgers/smart contract networks/pegged altcoins for each national currency, which then split off to a few more sidechains/smart contract networks for different industries... like a pyramid or upside down tree branching out.

6503  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looking Like The Time of Bitcoin Has Finally Arrived! on: January 31, 2017, 05:30:56 PM
Unfortunately its impossible to scale onchain at massive levels so we must search for offchain solutions, but leave the core of the network decentralized so we can at least have guaranteed decentralized gold to store. Sending a bigger fee is worth a decentralized network.

bitcoin CAN scale onchain..
but you first need to grab the dooms day of "needs 7bill capacity by midnight".. squeeze it, stamp on it and then burn it.
wipte it from your mind. cleanse your soul. and then now you have an open mind
replace that space in your mind with rational natural growth over a couple decades of only rational number of say 5% of world population.. not 100%.

relax 5% is still a big number.. it puts bitcoin in top 5 "nations" of the world.. its just more rational. and not "the new world order single currency by midnight" crappy rhetoric

then you will see the difference
6504  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looking Like The Time of Bitcoin Has Finally Arrived! on: January 31, 2017, 03:17:55 PM
Any centralized services or banks wouldn't think about bitcoin at all since it won't give them profit, they would rather use blockchain technology for their own benefit (and obviously it's closed/centralized/private blockchain). So, it's time of blockchain technology, not time of bitcoin.
Maybe they will be interested with bitcoin if LN is adopted Tongue

commercial banks via their 'investment' subsidiaries would become LN hubs.. (they are already highly invested in LN development via blockstream)
but IMF, national banks and front end commercial banks are concentrating on hyperledger.

the LN part is just going to be the gateway of cross chain conversion for people to have low fee's to get back to hyperledger sidechain coin.. but charge people extra to get bitcoin..

yep they will hope to drag people back to hyperledger but create financial penalties for wanting to leave hyperledger.
oop dang it.. i should have warned: 'spoilers'
6505  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Possible outcome if Bitcoin do not implement SegWit and LN on: January 31, 2017, 02:50:55 PM

the problem with full avoidance of 'divide and conquer' leaves people in a 'lay down and surrender'

what we should be doing however is getting back to bitcoins ethos of 2009-2013 diverse consensus.
and not treating the corporate centralists as the leaders of bitcoin.

we should be thinking about NODES (users) set the rules via consensus.. not devs
where by pools, if they want their rewards. they collate the data into blocks that fit the nodes consensus rules. not by rules devs want pools to adopt

recognise that any dev witholding onchain growth, as being not a good dev. and try to find a way to ensure NODES get to independantly change their settings without dev spoon feeding.

bitcoin needs to get to a point that devs are needed less and less because bitcoin can function alone..and users can change settings without devs.
(imagine a world where to change a font in microsoft word you had to ask a dev for a patch... bad)
(imagine a world where to change a font in microsoft word users just change a font. users can request devs add more fonts to the default list in the next update. but not require devs to control the fonts)
 not aiming for a point of needing devs more and more because bitcoin cant live without them
6506  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are Chinese miners fucking stupid? on: January 31, 2017, 02:08:02 PM
What am I missing here? Apart from the Block reward and the miners fees, a additional income stream are added for the miners, if they host a hub a  hub manager will receive income from that, and this income might even be more than the income that was lost from reduced on-chain transactions.

Why would a miner not accept a change in the protocol that could possibly increase his income from fees?  

Have you done calculations that compare Miners Fees VS Hub hosting fees? < or potential fees >

barry silbert of DCG (ownership stake of blockstream, BTCC, coinbase, bitpay, etc) is looking forward to his investment returns from LN hubs.
oops did i just reveal why BTCC is the main/first pool supporting segwit(the phase 1 stage in LN requirements), and why blockstream are pushing hard to get segwit active to enable LN.. oops sorry for the spoilers
6507  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looking Like The Time of Bitcoin Has Finally Arrived! on: January 31, 2017, 01:55:16 PM
This news is similar to the news of of India's top bank exploring blockchain technology, once again they are going after technology not after the coin. Now it is evident that they think by creating a blockchain type technology they can overthrow the popularity of Bitcoin. It was bitcoin that made people use blockchain and not otherwise. When will these people learn and just straight away give credit to Bitcoin and just accept it as a form of currency. I hope China takes a bold step and just accept bitcoin, though a long way but let's hope for Best.

a government cannot control bitcoin.
thus they cant benefit from it.

people/citizens could use bitcoin.. but dont expect bitcoin to become china's "fiat"
also. bitcoin should not even try to let a government control it
also. bitcoin should not even try becoming fiat.
bitcoins utility is being an open option away from government/bank control

otherwise whats the point of bitcoin if it turns into governmentcoin2.0
6508  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looking Like The Time of Bitcoin Has Finally Arrived! on: January 31, 2017, 01:40:46 PM
China is not studying bitcoin but rather blockchain technology. They are planning to create a fiat digital currency using the same technology that bitcoin is using the so called blockchain technology. But I hope I am wrong

you are not wrong

http://www.the-blockchain.com/2017/01/05/blockchain-group-hyperledger-expands-china/
Quote
Hyperledger membership has been growing quickly in China over the past year. To date, more than 25% of Hyperledger members are from mainland China. In order to foster a strong relationship between the Hyperledger global community and the China local technical teams, today, Hyperledger is announcing a Technical Working Group China (TWG China). TWG China was officially approved by the Hyperledger TSC on December 1, 2016.
6509  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Possible outcome if Bitcoin do not implement SegWit and LN on: January 31, 2017, 01:29:22 PM
things would change if..

the big 12 exchanges.
and also the merchant tools (bitpay/coinbase) both started pushing for another currency.

EG the 300,000 merchants accepting bitcoin, started accepting another coin and not advertising bitcoin acceptance.
'value' in bitcoin would decline

Guess what ?   Exactly matches plans of Bilderberg group  :-)

shhhh
rule one of barry silbert investment company DCG
dont talk about bilderberg aka satoshi roundtable 2017

dont talk about blockstream. dont talk about coinbase dont talk about bitpay, dont talk about bitpayBTCC[/url] or the BTCC ceo's brother(charlie lee DoE at coinbase and creator of litecoin)

..
i now predict the usual troll storm incoming to defend blockstream and barry silbert aka bilderberg organisers
6510  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Looking Like The Time of Bitcoin Has Finally Arrived! on: January 31, 2017, 01:23:37 PM
the china exploring blockchain is about hyperledger. not specifically bitcoin..
= non news day concerning bitcoin

the bitcoin ETF is just winklevii speculation/opinion
6511  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Possible outcome if Bitcoin do not implement SegWit and LN on: January 31, 2017, 01:17:14 PM
things would change if..

the big 12 exchanges.
and also the merchant tools (bitpay/coinbase) both started pushing for another currency.

EG the 300,000 merchants accepting bitcoin, started accepting another coin and not advertising bitcoin acceptance.
'value' in bitcoin would decline
6512  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Funding Solar Energy with Bitcoin - a solid state & silicon based economy? on: January 31, 2017, 12:59:07 PM
and so it begins

a middle man holds the bags of funds. not much of it ends up actually doing anything in reality but being handled by the middleman.

the middle man will show lots of pictures they googled and lots of sob stories of needs for funding.

No one willing to throw money at such a project huh? What about $9 bilion on just one plant in the sahara which is the first of many? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/04/morocco-to-switch-on-first-phase-of-worlds-largest-solar-plant

the morocco project is not a "sun exchange" project, its just a google search he found.
for a guy living in africa, seems he is quoting a UK media source

Dangerz
yes countries are getting into solar.. thats not a doubt.
but it doesnt legitimize your business.

nor does your proposal explain why bitcoiners should get involved as you fail to explain(beyond the gimmick of your internal switcheroo pretend) how bitcoin would actually become part of africans daily lives.
6513  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do we need to do to take the Bitcoin mainstream? on: January 31, 2017, 12:27:25 PM
Getting together sound quite easy but it will require some expenses, and there will be nothing rewarding for anyone to just host bitcoin conference in their area. We are only having fewer conference by some big bitcoin related media outlets which are trying to gain some popularity among investors so they can get advertisers for their outlets.

Bitcoin will go to mainstream without any advertising, many people soon gonna realize the potentiality of bitcoin transactions and demonetization along with infinite inflation of cash will force many investors towards bitcoin.

it doesnt need to be expensive to 'get together' start local as a 'meetup'.
arrange to all meet at a cafe/bar a certain day/time each week or month.
usually you may only see 5-15 turn up. so no costs. its just a few guys siting in a cafe/bar drinking their own drinks

learn what local skills locals interested in bitcoin have. start discussing what local shops the majority all use, to se the most popular choices you all would want to see accept bitcoin and plan on what to do to help get local stores to accept bitcoin.

this may as simple as where a bitcoin buyer sets up a fiat bartab with the store. and then gives the store a QR code.. then any customer asking to pay with bitcoins can be shown the qr code. the shop worker just checks a phone browsers bookmarked link of a blockexplorer to see if funds arrive.. and then the store manager takes the cash amount out of the bartab.
(that has been found to be the easiest intro to offer to a business to try out bitcoin acceptance risk free)

usually good practice to ask the cafe/bar you intend to use regularly for meetups to try out showing qr code and checking blockexplorer when their customers ask to pay with bitcoin. it hones your confidence and experience of asking a business to accept bitcoin. while helping the bitcoin buyer have a regular bitcoin income. and getting your first local merchant to accept bitcoin.. (then let it grow from there)

as things grow and more turn up. say 15-50 find another venue that can cater to the amount if the cafe/bar cant cope. some have found they simply ask the bar what day is their slowest/lowest occupancy, meaning more room for bitcoiners if there are less random people there. and arrange the meetups for that day. thus not putting a strain on the bar.

if 50-100 want to turn up then set up an attendance fee of say 100th of the room hire
usually you can hire a room with capacity for 100 for under $100 for a couple hours($1 per attendee) and less for the rom hire/attendees ticket in developing countries. in short split the cost

once things start getting bigger and you want to invite international spokes people to attend. then make the attendance fee (ticket price) equate the cost of hiring the even larger venue for the day.
6514  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Possible outcome if Bitcoin do not implement SegWit and LN on: January 31, 2017, 07:33:09 AM
ill raise a point 5.

if having LN on bitcoin.. will people realise that their funds are locked into X week contracts with penalties for payment hopping and decide, next time they will avoid hops and instead choose hubs, which are cheaper.

making users end up all using the same hub to reduce the hop fee's. turning the hub into paypal 2.0 by being the middle counterparty signing everyone's payment.. for a fee(lower then paying multiple hop fee's).
adding to that. after broadcasting the settlement transaction. having CLTV on the confirmed settlement forcing the confirmed tx to not be spendable for a further 3-5 days to allow the hub manager 3-5 days to submit a CSV revoke code. thus making it feel even more like paypal. which in laymens: 3-5 day balance unavailable and chargebacks.

will people see the benefit of bitcoin?? when it in reality, it ends up feeling the exact same as paypal/failed fiat banking system?

ill raise a point 6.
with people locked into LN hubs.. how many people think /care about the full network, if they are no longer actually transacting daily on the mainnet.
how many full node users will decide they see no benefit of being a full node because all they ever use is the LN node.

will LN actually kill off the full node count when people dont need to use main net daily?
6515  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SegWit vs Bitcoin unlimited on: January 31, 2017, 07:09:47 AM
making sure that you are submitting solid code

this bip process.. is not about submitting solid code..
its the process just to submit an idea of something. a concept

which usually is one that opposes cores idea.. hense why people need to submit opposing bips to counter cores own bips.

but to submit the idea (proposal/concept... not code) you have to be vetted by them atleast 4 times.(passing through gregs thumb atleast twice)
6516  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SegWit vs Bitcoin unlimited on: January 31, 2017, 07:05:53 AM


the question the tweet asks should trigger peoples thoughts.. i see problems in the statement. but if you ask the deeper question


if an exchange only plays with lets say 20btc(usually 20k-200k but lets keep it simple). and only has $18,000 to get a bitcoin price of $900 each..

the market cap of say 16,100,000 btc is based on the exchange rate.
but the problem..
the exchange is only playing with smaller amounts of bitcoin.. not the whole 16.1m
so this 20btc being traded and $18,000 fiat holding..

FALSELY makes people think the entire market is worth $14.5billion
when the reality is that there is not $14.5billion sitting in bank accounts to counter the bitcoins in circulation..


hopefully that should wake people up

and then
split it to 2 networks
now there are
20 btcA on an exchange and 20btcB on an exchange
with 16,100,000btcA cap, with 16,100,000btcB cap

again price of btc WAS $900
meaning only $18,000 was ever traded

yep only $18,000 exists in an exchange... but now a total of 40 coins are held on the exchange now

after a split
that $18,000 can go anyway

$9,000 btcA $9,000 btcB or
$8,000 btcA $10,000 btcB or (pick any ratio you like)

maths would still total $18k for 40 coins... which when PROJECTED to the market caps and combining the market caps. still total $14.5bill combined cap

so splitting the coin does not make the coins more valuable or increase the cap... until........



however..
if you create a new market page
no longer just btc<->$
or just btcA<->$   and   btcB<->$
but now
btcA<->$  and   btcB<->$  and  btcA<->btcB

no coins are withdrawn coins in this scenario
no more or less $ are deposited.

the exchange still holds 40 coins and $18,000
but now

5btcB <-> $
5btcB<-> $
and 15 btcA<-> 15 btcB

now lets concentrate on
5 btcB <-> $
5btcB<-> $
$9,000 btcA $9,000 btcB or
$8,000 btcA $10,000 btcB or (pick any ratio you like)

ill use $9,000 btcA $9,000 btcB
now ill emphasis there are still just 40 coins and $18,000 in the exchange.

but because only 5btcA are trading against $9000. that makes each btcA worth $1800 each
16.1 market cap of btcA now= $29billion
but because only 5btcB are trading against $9000. that makes each btcB worth $1800 each
16.1 market cap of btcB now= $29billion

combined market cap price of btcA+btcB now = $58billion..
yet on the exchange. before,during and after a split.. only $18,000 was ever held

...
think long and hard about how market manipulations and how the market cap.. is not true value. not even a good estimate of value and obsurdly over valued the market, based on the movements of just a few coins held actually on the market.. it will wake you up
6517  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SegWit vs Bitcoin unlimited on: January 31, 2017, 06:13:05 AM


corrected this guy due to his lack of research. seems he is a script reader. not a fact seeker

Ugh, here we go again   Sad...
Ain't you supposed to be researching instead of making these childish tricks?

how old are you? it's not a kindergarded here and Ver is not your beloved father...
untill you mentally grow up and start some own researchin you never overcome your confined point of view...

you've shown yesterday some aspiration to research, dont lose it now, just get on it, chop chop!

review my post history vs your post history.

you troll.
i explain bitcoin
seems you need a new script.

6518  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do we need to do to take the Bitcoin mainstream? on: January 31, 2017, 06:02:54 AM
What BTC need to go mainstream is unity, the house divided against itself will not stand, there are some people that want to reap where they did not sow and this is hurting BTC. The issue of scaling needs to be resolved soon and be able to compete with Visa.

you had a point right upto the "compete with visa"
that last 3 words is the nuclear bomb of the last 2 years drama.

many centralists say that by midnight of any given day bitcoin needs to beat visa. the only route is permissioned contracts looped through commercial hubs managing those contracts to keep costs low.

where as logical rational people see and know we do not have 900million users today. the visa debate is not a debate of today. its a slow and rational natural growth towards, which should be a long term 20-30year goal. not an overnight leap.

yet we have the centralists who want permissioned commercialised hub services (pretty much what visa/paypal do anyway, meaning no benefit) to be the solution because they shout out visa by midnight, now now now. while halting and hindering dynamic blocks because dynamic blocks wont scale to visa levels by midnight..

then we have the diverse dcentalised community wanting dynamic natural growth scaling where nodes decide what they can handle and grow at a natural pace nodes can handle. which allows slow, risk adverse scaling.. which means visa in the next 30 years.

logically we wont have visa overnight. and logically stopping natural dynamic scaling out of fears of overnight scaling are silly. but it just ends up as a fight between pushing for or against commercialised hubs.

6519  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do we need to do to take the Bitcoin mainstream? on: January 31, 2017, 05:52:33 AM
We already have these meetings, but it is on invite only and then the participants can talk about the meeting, but they are not allowed to identify the persons behind the talks, and what they said. We only need the secret hand shakes and then we are ready to turn this into some secret underground frat party for the "in crowd" ^hmmmmm^

They only invite the influential people they can use, not the people who make up the network of users who use the technology.

satoshi roundtable 2017
majority blockstream and the corporate bankers who all love hyperledger
6520  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SegWit vs Bitcoin unlimited on: January 31, 2017, 05:25:50 AM
It seems that there must be some other explanation besides what you are saying, regarding excluding folks from using testnet.  Maybe they only allow using testnet once a product has been vetted through the BIP process first?   You wouldn't just want random folks coming in to break the system, if they are not testing valid BIP items, right?

and now you start the rabbit hole.

to get a bip, to then be able to testnet,...is like this... (note proposal/idea.. not actual final code, just a proposal)

to get a bip you need to first discuss it on the IRC/forum (moderated by theymos/gmaxwell)

then you need to submit the idea to the bitcoin mailing list. and have people revet/discuss it.
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/d9e890a8f27e46806238e298a346397871fd7e87/README.mediawiki
Quote
People wishing to submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the mailing list. After discussion they should email Greg Maxwell . After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here.

then you can go to github and end up seeing this
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/new/master
Quote
Youíre creating a file in a project you donít have write access to. Submitting a change will create the file in a new branch in your fork xxxxxxx/bips, so you can send a pull request.

where you are then required to be vetted again.. to get it submitted(pulled)

and this is just the process to even have a "proposal" listed, not final code, not working model, just a dang proposal!!

.
its like having to sit down for an interview, a reinterview. and then asking a womens father for the womans hand in marriage, purely to be allowed to ask a woman for a date.!!
and then only allowed to go on a date (main testnet) if you promise to not pass third base
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