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821  Economy / Speculation / Re: After a bull run, on: July 26, 2016, 03:42:37 PM
I don't look at days. I look at years and decades. The future of bitcoin has never looked so bright.  Wink
822  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: what to do with bitcoins once youhave them on: July 22, 2016, 04:53:34 PM
Anyone not sure what to do with money once you have it can send it to me.  Grin
823  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do Bitcoins have Tax?? on: July 22, 2016, 04:44:00 PM
Short answer: YES

Bitcoin has no authority to demand taxes, its a math program.
Governments have the authority however. In the U.S., ALL MONEY YOU MAKE IS SUBJECT TO TAX LAW. Sometimes your tax rate may be zero, but the laws still apply. In the case of bitcoin you owe capitol gains on the appreciation in value. The rate varies depending on your tax bracket and other factors, but 10% is a normal amount.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that you don't have to pay taxes. All your transactions have been recorded on the blockchain forever and one day the IRS may hand you a bill that also includes penalties and interest. You might even have to do a little jail time......


......if you live in the USA. It's impossible to give tax advise on an international forum.
True. In some places perhaps there is no tax on BTC at all.  Huh

Also, can we stop confusing taxation and fees. Bitcoin HAS NO TAX. A lot of posters are calling the Tx fee a tax. The VOLUNTARY fee is payment for service. Routing your transactions costs money and bitcoin is not a free service. If you want something delivered you have to pay for it. It could be a postcard or a package from Amazon, or a bitcoin. You are simply paying for the work and expense involved in moving your BTC, and it is no more a tax than a UPS shipping charge.
824  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Is it stealing when you get the funds from an address you find? on: July 22, 2016, 04:32:03 PM
Definition of stealing: Taking something ...

That is not how Bitcoin works.
When you ...

I think there is a lot more to it than that?
By the same logic you could steel my car and claim that I gave up any rights to it when I bought it. Bitcoin IS my property and the government (at least in the US) has an obligation to assist me if I was robbed. They took their taxes when they claimed it was mine, now they must act. Which is why they can tax me in the first place.  So while the police may not know what a bitcoin is, I have protection for my assets.

No, you don't understand what I am saying.
Your example does not work since a car (and other types of major property) has title ownership papers.
Bitcoin has no such proofs and that is intentional in this system. Your only proof is control of keys.

The US Government has no obligation in law in help get your btc back UNLESS it was secured,
such as with exchanges or businesses. As long as you deal with bitcoin within the Bitcoin Network,
there is no remedy. When you move your btc to something else, like Coinbase, then that is the only
time the US government would have ability by law and proceed with their investigation/processes.

Here are some questions:
1. If someone swept my btc from my address outside a regulated system, what is the mechanism and
protocols to legally and realistically help me get my btc back?
2. What are the proofs that are used to prove that I didn't transfer the btc myself and made a false claim?

I checked with my insurer (I insure my coins) and he tells me that id stolen my BTC are absolutely something the police are legally obligated to investigate and that the thief is open to both civil and criminal prosecution.
However you are asking the right questions about how practical it is to recover lost bitcoin.  I have no idea how they would determine who the thief is in the absence of other clues, or how you could logically prove that you were robbed.  Huh Then again, this is true for a lawnmower also. I suppose the police would try their best in an investigation. My hunch is that they would be unsuccessful. That's why I prefer insurance.
825  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Is it stealing when you get the funds from an address you find? on: July 21, 2016, 07:32:55 PM
Definition of stealing: Taking something that does not belong to you.

So if you worked for your money, then it's yours whether you decide to store it as bitcoins or as raw cash kept in a round pot and buried out in your yard. Fact still remains the money belongs to you.

If you did not work for the money and you "suddenly" find yourself in possession of money WITHOUT the consent of the owner, you should RETURN it. If you don't, then that's stealing.

That is not how Bitcoin works.
When you convert your money into bitcoin, you no longer own that money or claim rights to that money.
You now are participating within the Bitcoin system and that system does not provide rights of ownership.
So, you willingly decided to wave your ownership rights, to gain control rights within a non regulated financial system.

Whether you worked for the btc or not, is irrelevant in this type of legal theory.
In Bitcoin, if someone "stole" your btc out from your address, who do you go to for remedy?
The Bitcoin Devs? The Bitcoin miners? There is no one who is legally responsible.
Because there is no legal responsibility, there is no ownership, then there is no theft.
You can not appeal to the Bitcoin network itself to help return your stolen btc.

I think there is a lot more to it than that?
By the same logic you could steel my car and claim that I gave up any rights to it when I bought it. Bitcoin IS my property and the government (at least in the US) has an obligation to assist me if I was robbed. They took their taxes when they claimed it was mine, now they must act. Which is why they can tax me in the first place.  So while the police may not know what a bitcoin is, I have protection for my assets.
826  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Possible to double spend if 2 confirmations ? on: July 21, 2016, 05:31:02 PM
No i not try to doublespend (we talk about 20$) but someone scammed me he claim that even on 2 confirmation i can double spend.

Please only the real pro should reply here as i need strong evidence about this !
Theoretically yes, in practice, no.

In order to do that, you would need to be able to mine three blocks before the rest of the miners find the block for the third confirmation. Those three blocks would have to include the double spending transaction and be a small fork of the blockchain the began on the block before your first confirmation.

Ok so in theory it's for a single user impossible unless you have the hardware right ?!
Yes. Performing such an attack would require a lot of hardware. In order to have any probability of success, you would need to have greater than 50% of the hash rate. At the current network hashrate, that is incredibly expensive and pretty much impossible.
That's the thing. While it is *possible, it is in no way profitable. With each confirmation it becomes exponentially harder and more expensive. The same is true with credit cards. For example, until recently you could not use a credit card at MacDonald's. That is because assuring that the transaction is legitimate costs more than the profit from the transaction. The card companies finally wised up and realized that creating a false transaction also costs more than a MacDonald's meal. So now you can use your card and they just assume that you will act logically and not spend dollars to get pennies.
827  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Would it be principle possible to own all bitcoins? on: July 21, 2016, 04:41:49 PM

Thought it would be fun to see just how
big of a wallet you would need here.

some ROUGH calculations

- 75 billion address key pairs can be stored using 1 terabyte.
- each terabyte can fit into a tiny hard drive measuring 35 cubic centimeters
(Samsungs' new harddrive that is about the size of a business card and maybe .7 cm thick)
- 1 cubic meter has 1M cubic cm
- 28,571 terabytes per cubic meter.
- 2^160 total bitcoin addresses
- 1.94 * 10^37 terabytes to store all those addreses.

Therefore, your wallet requires 6.8*10^32 cubic meters.

Given that the earth is a little more than 10^21 cubic meters,
your wallet would be the volume equivalent to 680 billion earths.






828  Economy / Economics / Re: is bitcoin can be a fiat money? on: July 21, 2016, 03:24:30 PM
I think yes and there is no doubt about this. I think we will be able in future to you bitcoin as a fiat currency. but for this we need a continuous struggle to make it a fiat currency having same value in all over the world.

So what government created bitcoin? That is what fiat currency is.  IT CAN NOT BE FIAT for the same reason it can not be a camel. it does not meet the definition of either.
829  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Do Bitcoins have Tax?? on: July 21, 2016, 03:18:05 PM
Short answer: YES

Bitcoin has no authority to demand taxes, its a math program.
Governments have the authority however. In the U.S., ALL MONEY YOU MAKE IS SUBJECT TO TAX LAW. Sometimes your tax rate may be zero, but the laws still apply. In the case of bitcoin you owe capitol gains on the appreciation in value. The rate varies depending on your tax bracket and other factors, but 10% is a normal amount.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that you don't have to pay taxes. All your transactions have been recorded on the blockchain forever and one day the IRS may hand you a bill that also includes penalties and interest. You might even have to do a little jail time.
830  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Help a newbie out please on: July 21, 2016, 03:09:57 PM
You may want to consider never using a credit card online again? Up your security by doing your shopping with bitcoin. Start with an Overstock.com account. You can buy most anything now with bitcoin.  "cashing out" will mean giving up some profit, why do that when overstock gives you 3% off when using BTC?
 Wink
831  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: How to play gambling in a smart way? on: July 21, 2016, 02:56:09 PM
The only "smart" way to gamble is to buy a casino and collect the money of the hopelessly mathematically illiterate.
832  Economy / Economics / Re: is bitcoin can be a fiat money? on: July 21, 2016, 02:51:36 PM
No.
Look at the definition of fiat for why:

Quote from: wikipedia
Fiat money is a currency established as money by government regulation or law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money
833  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: what to do with bitcoins once youhave them on: July 19, 2016, 07:50:25 PM
Well, its money. So... I spend it.
834  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin price rising and rising. Is it time to sell before another price down? on: July 19, 2016, 03:49:49 PM
If all you care about is fiat currency then by all means sell your BTC. If you want to actually join in the revolution then SPEND your coins and never sell again.
835  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: ARE NEWBIES CONSIDERED AS FOOLS? on: July 18, 2016, 06:10:28 PM
For me a fool is a veteran member that has forgotten how new this all is. We are all newbies here.
836  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This asshole published my private key! on: July 18, 2016, 06:07:52 PM
I'm still not worried though. Just as a list of all possible pin numbers could be published, it would still require a brute force of all the possible pin numbers. That process with bitcoin addresses would likely take millions of years. Maybe billions?
837  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: This asshole published my private key! on: July 18, 2016, 05:25:01 PM
So if I wrote down all the numbers between 0000 and 9999 would I know your pin number?  Wink

Nothing to worry about here.
838  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin need a killer App Pokémon GO on: July 18, 2016, 04:55:52 PM
I totally agree. I have not downloaded the game yet, but I know it brings people together in real world locations. Why not have bitcoin trading at "poke spots". or a parallel app that allows buying of stuff you need in the game?  Maybe stuff like information, powerups,... I don't play so you tell me. lol
839  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Deep web bitcoin accounts on: July 18, 2016, 04:45:42 PM
There is no such thing as a "Deep or Dark web bitcoin account".  All network transactions are visible to all users via the blockchain.  So I don't know what those guys are selling, but it is surely a scam.
I think what the OP's trying to tell is the account itself of other people in blockchain. The one they use to login and the one that's holding their wallets. It's possible, right?
That makes sense. So a website account rather than a bitcoin wallet.
I just don't see how people upload money to be controlled by a website that you can't police. The only thing you can know about the operators of most such websites is that they are criminals. It's crazy to share your private key with criminals.
840  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: People Losing Passwords & Wallets... on: July 18, 2016, 03:57:51 PM
I think this is always worth mentioning. People seem to forget that there is no bitcoin incorporated or bank to help you do security. If you are doing it correctly, then you are the only one in charge of security.  It's sad to see posts asking for the bitcoin "master key" or to have their account "reset".

If you lose access to your private key then no one on Earth can help. Not the NSA, not Satoshi Nakamoto, nobody.
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