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201  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Real Bitcoin Value on: September 23, 2017, 04:57:22 AM
Sometimes the thing that "scares" me the most is the financial and economic ineptitude of so many people risking their wealth and welfare in cryptocurencies. This forum is interesting but it's become far too strong an echo-chamber for bullish banter.

Sure, I won't argue in favour of the WSJ article. It's clearly a poor hit-piece with very little merit to it, however it's important to keep a couple of things in mind, and these were true well before the intervention of any media outlet.

1. Bitcoin is materially worthless. It has 0 intrinsic, physical value.
2. Bitcoin's mining system is insanely "wasteful" in terms of energy, and is a scourge to the environment (well, at the moment it pales compared to most energy-intensive industries, however it has potential to spiral out of control, and is inane).

These are simple facts, but neither of these facts spell doom for Bitcoin, not now, not ever. The value of Gold is linked to physical usefulness of the material itself. If all the financial value disappeared from Gold, it would still be worth reasonable value just from that. Bitcoin, in that sense, is closer to diamonds. Physically almost worthless, financially priceless. Bitcoin, however, is "useful" in more practical terms, solves some real-world problems--plenty more than diamonds ever will--and is attributed value because of this usefulness. Mining expenditure comes slightly into play, but isn't really what gives Bitcoin "value".

The energy problem? Eventually Bitcoin--if it survives that is--will change algorithm, and that might be a good time to fix things up in this respect, but this is just future speculation, little we can do about it right now. There are far more pressing problems, especially regarding transaction capacity and speed, but also around security and ease of use that pose much more danger to bitcoin that farm waste ever will.

So, it's true, Bitcoin is worth 0. in fact, it's worth negative money as it's a cost to "make", and a cost to "store", but this is, at the very least in this moment in time, wholly irrelevant.
202  Economy / Micro Earnings / Re: Coinpot and moon mining new on: September 23, 2017, 04:43:23 AM
Mining Bitcoin is great if you have very reliable internet, 24/7 almost-free electricity, and enough money to buy enough machinery to actually be able to send shares to the network. then you have to wait for 9-18 months to repay, in the best of cases, your initial investment. After that, yeah, it's all revenue-costs. You _can_ mine some alt-coins, being careful to always choose the ones that provide the highest return when converted back to BTC, lowering slightly your investment cost, but this usually means you have to invest in a specific other algorithm which will be unpredictably priced against BTC over the course of your mining operation.

not to mention miners are loud as buggering foxes.
203  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: government and bitcoins banning on: September 23, 2017, 04:37:40 AM
People were laundering money just fine before, and will continue to do so even if crypto were completely killed off.

If you have criminal intent, and a large sum of money, laundering really isn't as big a "problem" as most people seem to think. It's definitely less hassle than you'll go through the day you want to get x,000,000 dollars from Bitcoin to USD or whatever other currency. We here on this forum adore bitcoin and pretend it's really easy to use and readily accessible. this isn't true, and has some serious barrier to liquidation. sure, there are ways to get around KYC exchanges etc, but in the end you'll find it's far from the preferred mode for money laundering out there. (especially demonstrated by the tiny market cap and daily volume BTC has).
204  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: So whats up with Bitcoin today???? on: September 22, 2017, 11:44:57 PM
more people willing to sell at lower price than there are people willing to pay a higher premium.
205  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If the Chinese government takes over bitcoin mines on: September 21, 2017, 08:16:36 PM
if it were to happen, very unlikely, there are a few things Bitcoin could do to protect itself, including banning certain nodes (for the short term). worst case scenario, change algo and roll back. (that would be something acceptable only in case of a monumental disaster).

this said, won't be easy for them to get to 51%. and 51% doesn't automatically make you god.


Banning certain nodes and changing the algo? Who makes those decisions and who has the power to do that? Is it a vote? If the Chinese have 51% then how would the vote get through?


doesn't have to be a vote. developers implement a new algorithm, and publish it. people are suffering from a chinese 51% on the "original" network, they move quicker than lightning to the new client(s), and so will miners. Yes, you'd still have the previous bitcoin as a forked chain, but that would be completely irrelevant as people will use the secured chain primarely.
206  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Taxless and free society? on: September 21, 2017, 07:51:26 PM

But the question is that without taxes how will the govt. Manage to accumulate funds? Leave every thing just tell who will take care of law and order? Such society is unimaginable.

It's not unimaginable, it's just nonfunctional in practice. Law and order would be down to private entities, just like everything else.
207  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Taxless and free society? on: September 21, 2017, 07:48:51 PM
corporations, if it's the kind of libertarian society that allows corporations.

each will own, maintain, and charge for infrastructure. as long as it's profitable that is.
208  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: If the Chinese government takes over bitcoin mines on: September 21, 2017, 07:27:15 PM
if it were to happen, very unlikely, there are a few things Bitcoin could do to protect itself, including banning certain nodes (for the short term). worst case scenario, change algo and roll back. (that would be something acceptable only in case of a monumental disaster).

this said, won't be easy for them to get to 51%. and 51% doesn't automatically make you god.
209  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Taxless and free society? on: September 21, 2017, 06:38:47 PM
Like with any extremist society, if all goes well it never comes to be. If all goes bad, it will exist and will be just as damaging as any other extremist society is and has been throughout history.

Seeking utopia never ends in anything good.
210  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: government and bitcoins banning on: September 21, 2017, 03:33:42 PM
sure. doesn't really matter, don't worry too much about things you can't predict and control.
211  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are lightweight wallets less secure then traditional wallets? on: September 21, 2017, 02:28:27 PM
Providing you're using wallets where you keep full ownership of the keys, trust the developer and source code, trust the compiled download, and have a secure computer, running a full node is only really sensible if you actually want to be part of the network (i.e. you're on 24/7). no real gain otherwise.
212  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: South African Reserve bank says bitcoin not a legal tender, : regulation move on: September 21, 2017, 02:24:23 PM
bitcoin never claimed or aimed to be legal tender in the first place. plenty of things arn't. most, in fact.

Legal tender is merely the officially recognized coinage by a given government, i.e. the the government will accept legal tender, and shopkeepers must accept legal tender as a form of payment (to the recognized value of the legal tender).

it's... really inconsequential. it's simply a clarification on what is an obvious condition. it probably has some tax impact, that's all.
213  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Beaware North Korean Hackers are targeting exchanges! on: September 21, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
APT landscape of even the smallest exchange is insane, NK government sanctioned hackers are just another drop in the puddle of piss.
214  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Congress submits bill making it illegal to hold cash, Bitcoin on: September 20, 2017, 08:06:30 PM
It doesn't make it illegal to hold cash and bitcoin. what a pointless clickbait.
215  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How Bitcoin will survive If the Internet War happens ? on: September 20, 2017, 11:24:13 AM
The blockchain as it is now does rely on a permanent online network, but bitcoin itself supports offline transactions and wallets. With some protocol tweaking and a bit of smarts, even in case of an unreliable link bitcoin can and will survive.
216  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How Bitcoin will survive If the Internet War happens ? on: September 20, 2017, 11:15:24 AM
nothing much. Unless you imagine a situation where the internet is actually cut off, in which case the protocol will have to evolve.
217  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How to Stop New Trader from Panic Selling? on: September 20, 2017, 10:22:39 AM
Hard drive and ram hikes after disasters were Not emotional they were pushed by actual damage to the supply Chain.

Anyhow, answering the oroginal question, panic selling is part and parcel of what males bitcoin so valuable
218  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: So when do you "actually" plan to cash in your bitcoin? > or <$1,000,000 on: September 20, 2017, 06:59:59 AM
very much so. even allowing for 21 million BTC, at 1 million each, gives a theoretical 21,000,000,000,000 forget total world money supply, that's about equal to the current US debt
219  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Spending Bitcoin These Days on: September 19, 2017, 06:03:50 PM
The compelling reason is that you are able to spend bitcoin directly. For you it may be a hassle because you don't want to ever touch your coin (evidently you don't own many). For some people, it's an opportunity to extract some value from their profits.

If that is compelling then you are easily compelled. I would be more than happy to place a bet regarding who of us holds more BTC Wink

I'm not a betting man... and mine wasn't a challenge, just a supposition. If you do own many bitcoin (say, more than 30% of your net worth), then the more usual thing to do is to export a portion of your profits--even small--to other forms of store. Most of my BTC purchases have been like that, some gold/silver, some magic, some other stuff... just in order to ensure a portion of my gains is in a different form, suitable for different times.

in that case, the ability to spend bitcoin directly is compelling and costs less than using regular cash.
220  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Spending Bitcoin These Days on: September 19, 2017, 05:15:17 PM
The compelling reason is that you are able to spend bitcoin directly. For you it may be a hassle because you don't want to ever touch your coin (evidently you don't own many). For some people, it's an opportunity to extract some value from their profits.
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