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1  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [GONE] for a song again! - Casascius 1BTC & 0.5 BTC on Scarce City on: March 25, 2022, 06:31:03 AM
Thanks for your responses, both.

It's all a learning curve.



2  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [GONE] for a song again! - Casascius 1BTC & 0.5 BTC on Scarce City on: March 24, 2022, 08:11:51 PM
They went for 1.1 and 0.55 respectively - 10% over face.

The primary complaint here last time was low quality and ungraded. I also thought the coin being located outside the US might put people off. Fixed all three and put in the best coin I've got (the 1) and they still barely covered the costs.

I think I need to go back to the drawing board and rethink this completely, maybe find me a salesman who will go out and find me buyers for a commission. I don't know but this doesn't work. Any ideas?
3  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION] FINAL HOURS - Casascius 1BTC & 0.5 BTC on Scarce City on: March 24, 2022, 04:29:59 PM
All the action for good collectibles happens in the last 10 minutes of the auctions...

I know this is often the case although I have to admit I don't understand the bidding psychology that makes it so - especially where there are anti-sniping measures in place to prevent final-second bids (as there are for scarce city auctions).

...I'm sure if the members here had accounts on the site you used it would help fetch a higher premium

I have gotten the impression (though I can not evidence this directly) that a substantial number of bitcointalk folk are also active on Scarce City.

However, thanks for raising this. Although I'm not an authority on how Scarce City works, it may be useful to some here for me to share my understanding: From what I gather,

  • it isn't necessary to register in order to place a bid - except that without, each bid requires a refundable deposit payment of 1%
  • bid deposits may be made on-chain (i.e. without the need for Lightning Network)
  • however, before the end of the auction, the on-chain bidding option is removed - i.e. ONLY Lightning Network bids are permitted for that crucial last 10 mins you referred to.

Hope that helps. Here's their demo on the bidding process.
4  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION} Two brass Casascius - 1 & 0.5 - Scarce City - 24 hrs to hammer on: March 23, 2022, 08:23:24 PM
With the auction less than a day away, there's a chance someone will get these graded quality coins for a great price.!

Still, as of writing, now with 24 hours to go of the auction, the current high bids on both pieces are:

Current high bid for the 1 piece: 1.05 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-1BTC-s2
Current high bid for the 0.5 piece: 0.55 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-.5BTC-MS64
5  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION} Two brass Casascius - 1 & 0.5 - Scarce City - 36 hrs to hammer on: March 23, 2022, 07:56:10 AM
As of writing with 36 hours to go of the auction, the current high bids on both pieces are:

Current high bid for the 1 piece: 1.05 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-1BTC-s2
Current high bid for the 0.5 piece: 0.55 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-.5BTC-MS64
6  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Two brass Casascius coins of mine for auction next days Scarce City - 0.5 & 1 on: March 21, 2022, 02:46:09 PM
Now with corrected listings, scarce.city have just tweeted the links https://twitter.com/scarcedotcity/status/1505914778132398080 (which I've also added to the OP). Thank you for your interest Smiley
7  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Two brass Casascius coins of mine for auction next days Scarce City - 0.5 & 1 on: March 21, 2022, 05:57:22 AM
It is showing 2 different coins for the 1 btc listing.
Both are MS64, not MS68 as the title of the listing states.
Also, both are 2012 not 2013 per the listing title
Huh
Thanks mj for pointing that out. The photos got mixed up. The coin shortbits and grading are correct as per listing description. I'll have the photos exchanges for the correct, matching ones as soon as I can.
8  Economy / Collectibles / [GONE] for a song again! - Casascius 1BTC & 0.5 BTC on Scarce City on: March 20, 2022, 09:07:50 PM
Current high bid for the 1 piece: 1.05 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-1BTC-s2
Current high bid for the 0.5 piece: 0.55 BTC https://scarce.city/auctions/casascius-.5BTC-MS64

https://twitter.com/scarcedotcity/status/1505914778132398080

Both loaded, ICG-graded, the .5 @ MS64, the 1 @ MS68. Both in the US ready for easy delivery to US buyers.

Example of photos of the 1 BTC piece.




Examples of photos of the .5 BTC piece (more on the scarce city auction page):






Any queries welcome.

Have fun Smiley

Please note there were incorrect photos, incorrect information and incorrect links in the listings that have now been corrected. Thanks to minorjones for drawing my attention to that.
9  Economy / Collectibles / Re: 25BTC Loaded Casascius Bitcoin (2011) -Moved to auction venue on: March 14, 2022, 04:28:37 PM
These guys have started auctioning physical crypto to the traditional numismatists too - https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots?search=casascius&lots_range=upcoming

In fact, two of mine (currently the first two listed: brass 1 BTC s2 2013 and brass 0.5 BTC 2013 are mine).
10  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Proposal for 'hybrid' auctions for graded Casascius brass 1 & 0.5 on: March 08, 2022, 02:46:36 PM
Quick update:

Thank you all for your feedback (on here and by PM).

It is clear to me that there is significant push-back from this community to what I was proposing. I'll therefore go back to the drawing board and revert for selling on here to standard bct auctions.

All the best for now.
11  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Proposal for 'hybrid' auctions for graded Casascius brass 1 & 0.5 on: March 07, 2022, 04:24:35 PM
true about the keys but if I have the coin in my possession, then I have the only copy of the key in my possession - that is if you trust the creator.  Leaving them at 4k means you also have to trust 4k. I rather only have ot trust one entity - the creator. Not some other company that can just disappear with said coins.

In the end, you have to have a level of trust, and for any collectible that I would hodl and not peel, it would be because I trust that creator. I have zero trust in 4k. I have never heard of nor know any of the people involved in 4k.

I can't argue with that.

It's also worth noting, however, that there's also a difference between having someone or an entity holding something for you long-term v. a third party holding a physical item for the duration of a sales process and / or transaction. In the former, yes, you're weighing it v. holding yourself or in your own security deposit box.

In the case of the coins being held for the duration of a sale, by signing a message with the same key that has control of the NFT, I will be able to prove the coins I'm auctioning are mine. And for anyone whose happy with high-value tokens (wBTC and NFTs), as a means of being able to easily swap the two is something that might be an attractive option - and, if not wanting to trust the third party in the long term (or simply in order to hold the physical item in their own hand), they may follow through with redemption.

Each to their own - and my intention here is to accommodate all (other than those who would prefer to pay by fiat  Grin )
12  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Proposal for 'hybrid' auctions for graded Casascius brass 1 & 0.5 on: March 07, 2022, 03:58:09 PM
I personally don't like this proposal.  It's one thing to list something for sale like on 4k or ebay and here (all at once), but when it comes down to an auction, only one site should be utilized.  There are too many issues that could arise.

Thank you too, ChiBitCTy for chiming in. It is these 'too many issues that could arise' that I would like to consider and, if possible mitigate for (or come up with another plan) and is the reason for this thread. I'd greatly appreciate your sharing what they may be.

Also, why auction it on 4K where they are surely to have less eyes viewing it than here.  

To be clear, 4k has no auction feature, only an offer feature so I don't have the option of auctioning it there. What there is there is the feature whereby anyone with the funds in a linked wallet (e.g. a offline-signing-device-secured, linked Metamask wallet) may at any time put in an offer. In the event that someone on 4k has the winning bid, all I have to do is accept the offer and the exchange is done.

...charging you 1% (which I don't see this fee even being mentioned on the site)...   

There is a 1% charge I would happily pay in the event that it was someone paying me wBTC via the 4k listing* (by smart contract in such a way that 4k are not involved in the transaction) and there is a 1% charge for anyone choosing to redeem the NFT for the coin.

...some silly NFT...  

I get that you're not impressed with the whole NFT thing - which is why I wanted to be absolutely clear as per my prior repsonses, that there is no need for any BTC-only people who are attracted to the physical coins themselves, to involve themselves with that side of it including not having to trust 4k because the NFT could be redeemed for delivery to the winner's address.

They have stated they have insurance protection..has that been shown to you? Their website has no TOS which is a huge issue/red flag.  The way that site is currently constructed I would not send anything to them.  

I have had sufficient correspondence with them (and have followed through with other due diligence) to be happy to trust 4k myself with my coins. I am not asking anyone else to.

* this charge does not apply in the event that I transfer custody of the NFT independently of the 4k listing platform.
13  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Proposal for 'hybrid' auctions for graded Casascius brass 1 & 0.5 on: March 07, 2022, 03:31:43 PM
If the physical can be delivered upon winning then yes, I would bid - provided it was something I wanted or could afford.

The aspect I am not keen on is bidding/winning and then allowing someone else to "hodl" my item. Just like a private key, if you don't hodl it yourself, then it is not truly yours.

Great, Thanks for confirming. That's good to know.

As for NYKNYC, strictly speaking (and practically speaking too, historically, wrt some negligent / crooked physical coin issuers), the private keys on the coins aren't technically yours because they weren't created on your off-line device using your own source of entropy - although it does need to be acknowledged in the case of Cas coins, and Mike Caldwell's competence and integrity, it's likely the closest we'll get to certainty in that regard.

But you're also right that handing the physical coins to a third party to securely store and entrusting them to honour the token they've issued for it is one step further still from true self-custody. And though the key personnel at 4k (who can retrieve the physical items) are respected and have been around a long time (including on here), they don't have the name and reputation of our most respected regular escrow folks here. Then again, neither have the owners of safety deposit box companies to whom many entrust valuables such as physical crypto. And it isn't even that holding physical coins at home doesn't come with its own risks. People choose what works best for their particular circumstances and propensity and judgement of relative risks.

The big plus for me as a seller is that if the buyer is up for accepting the NFT, we've eliminated some risks wrt transportation (or buyer falsely claiming an item was lost in transit etc.) and some days of sweating with coin sent trans-continental with payment in escrow and no certainty it will ever make that last leg to my wallet! And if the buyer is happy to use wBTC, they too have the benefit of an instant and trustless exchange cutting out the need for payment escrow (and in the event of being 'joint winners', will take the prize).
14  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Proposal for 'hybrid' auctions for graded Casascius brass 1 & 0.5 on: March 07, 2022, 01:20:57 PM
Me personally I would never bid on something I didnt physically receive. I wouldnt want to own anything that someone else gets to keep “for” me.

Thank you for this. It is to address such concerns / considerations that I created this thread in advance of the auctions.

To clarify, the option to pay BTC and to receive the physical coin will for these auctions be the same as it is for any other auction here; it is only that there are additional options for anyone for whom the fact it is NFT'd makes it an attractive proposition.

For people, such as yourself, who want no involvement with such NFTs, the only differences I can think of between this and any other bitcointalk auction are:

  • The physical coin is already in 'escrow' from which it could be delivered to the auction winner upon payment (maybe to one of the respected bct members who offer escrow);
  • Some bidders may be bidding elsewhere whose bids will need to be manually added to the auction thread;
  • Should there be identical 'winning bids' here and on 4k, the 'winner' on 4k (who has already committed the wBTC funds) will be the actual winner;
  • The fee for the 'item escrow' (1% 4k redemption fee) in addition to any escrow fees relating to payment will need to be taken into account when determining bid amounts.

Anyone who wants to may bid actual BTC and in the event of winning, may pay actual BTC and receive the actual physical coin without having had any interaction with token tech (nor any non-BTC technologies) and with it making no difference that the coin was for a short time represented by an ETH-based NFT.

On the other hand, anyone who would prefer to utilise / leverage ETH's token technology in the exchange process and even explore the options of trading the NFT or simply leaving it with 4k's secure storage as opposed to their own, may do so. (and there are hybrid options too for the exchange process with or without additional escrow to pay BTC and to receive the NFT).

Again, thank you, MoparMiningLLC for raising this. I hope the above clarification is helpful to you and to any others who were having similar thoughts. As a matter of interest, given what I've added in this post, would the fact I've NFT'd it still stop you from participating in these auctions?
15  Economy / Collectibles / Proposal for 'hybrid' auctions for graded Casascius brass 1 & 0.5 on: March 07, 2022, 10:24:14 AM
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the following way of conducting an auction on here in the next week or so for two brass Cas coins whereas, in parallel, I would also accepting bids for them on 4k.com where they've been "NFT'd" (the .5 is graded at MS64).

This is one of them:


Both coins are currently in secure storage in the US by 4k.com who have issued 'barer-tokens' (ERC1155 NFTs) for them. These auctions may therefore also be thought of as auctions for the physical-coin-backed NFTs.

However, I want the auction also to be open to the BTC-only community hence my proposal to have an auction thread here whereby anyone may place their bids here and 4k can be thought of merely as an escrow holder of the coins (with the 1% NFT redemption charge thought of as an escrow charge).

The idea is that I (or others) will replicate on the bct auction thread any bids that are made as 'offers' on 4k which may then be out-bid by people here not wanting to wrap their BTC as ETH tokens.

I propose in the event of there being two identical 'winning' bids, one here and one on 4k, that I will declare the one on 4k to have won because of the simplicity, low-risk and instant means by which wBTC may be exchanged for the NFT.

Where there is one clear winning bid on here (not matched on 4k) we can find a means to suit both parties (by use of escrow etc. at the buyer's expense) to transfer ownership and, if required, to take custody of the physical coin (to 'redeem' the NFT).

Does that sound to you like something that could work? Does it sound fair? Do you see potential pitfalls to this plan?

 
16  Economy / Collectibles / [Auction ENDED] Cas 1 brass S2 2013 loaded - on Scarce City on: December 12, 2021, 09:16:51 PM
Thank you to all who took an interest  Smiley I'll let you know when the next one (or the first of the tens) are going on whatever platform that may be.
17  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [3 hrs to AUCTION END] Cas 1 brass S2 2013 loaded - on Scarce City on: December 12, 2021, 05:43:40 PM
Here is a glimpse of the quality of this one for anyone who may be tempted without needing to click over to the auction page Wink


18  Economy / Collectibles / [Auction ENDED] Cas 1 brass S2 2013 loaded - on Scarce City on: December 08, 2021, 08:15:14 PM
Hi all,

Scarce City is auctioning a brass Casascius coin of mine, 1 Bitcoin, Series 2 2013, loaded - good condition.

For pics and further details, see the auction link from which bids may also be placed.

Thank you for your interest  Smiley
19  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION] Casascius coin, 1 BTC, loaded AUCTION ENDED on: November 28, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
First, I owe you in the bitcointalk community three apologies:

i) for my last message above that I retracted earlier. Looking at it this morning and at the responses to it, I can see that I had let my disappointment at the result combined with tiredness bring out a cynicism (including raising old stuff that has nothing to do with this auction) that was not justified and in the process, insulting those who identify with this community. Sorry for that.

ii) for having starting a thread and then gone on and on about selling Cas coins here (including dangling the silver-gilt 10s carrot) for almost a year, talking as though auctions were forthcoming then disappearing for many months on end.

iii) for, when I eventually did put something on offer, that it was a coin that was far from being in the best condition.

On the first, I've nothing further to say.

On the second and third, to a certain extent this dragging on without delivering anything then my first offering being of such comparative low quality has been out of my hands because though it was I who initially purchased these coins, they are all in the hands of others unless and until I've re-acquired them. And it happened to be that the first I got back was of fairly low quality. Having said that, if you look at the photos of the one that went on Scarce City for BTC1.4, you'll see that it is of similar condition. Those are two of four which have been together (in a 'sewer', damp cellar or wherever it was they were stored). I re-acquired yesterday's one and bitgeiniog (the Scarce City seller) acquired the other.

For what it's worth, selling here on forum has become a struggle due to the amount of scams and fuckery that go on here..... I can see why people are hesitant to bid.
On the converse, places like Scarce City have been killing it in terms of premium.
Previously a few varied year Cas coins have gone for 1.4BTC and 1.8BTC

I am sorry to hear, but it's also somewhat reassuring to hear from mj that it is his experience too that selling here 'has become a struggle'. So I can be reasonably confident that it is highly likely that it was not only the article itself nor my reputation or lack thereof (including both my thread of last year and my older post history) that was the cause of that coin going for a song.

As for 'MJ [doing me] a favor', he's no charity and I'm sure he wouldn't have bid if he didn't think it was a fair (or better) price for him. As I said above, if it was going to go to anyone at that price, I'm glad it was to him.

I will also ask my critics here to remember the goading I got on the other thread, being challenged to 'grow a pair' and put a Cas ten on auction with no reserve and just accept whatever the outcome. I'm pleased I didn't raise to the bait and instead did a test run (even if it was for an item far from being in best condition) before committing to auctioning a ten piece here. With the direct experience I now have, backed up by mj's comment, it seems clear I need to go elsewhere to reach good numbers of lively and enthused bidders. Basically, I need to find the people who are more excited and attracted by the prospect of holding in their hand 1/21-millionth or 1/2.1 millionth of all the BTC that will ever exist in an even more limited form (Casascius coins i.e. coins from the first person who thought up how an internet-native currency could work as physical coins and then produced them) than they are put off by whatever blemishes there may be on the physical coin itself.

I may find call to return again and will at least do you the courtesy of alerting you of sales / auctions of these coins elsewhere even if only to observe, assuming the likelihood of their being deemed to be overpriced by the OGs here. In the meantime, again but absent the 'sour-grapes-ness' of my message of last night, I'll wish everyone here the best for your endeavours and speculations Smiley
20  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [AUCTION] Casascius coin, 1 BTC, loaded AUCTION ENDED on: November 27, 2021, 11:11:33 PM
Retracted - for reference, the comment that was here is quoted by others below.
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