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801  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Official Blacklist of Entities Operating in the Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency Space on: November 04, 2014, 04:36:15 AM
Thank you for putting BlackArrow on there.  Definitely a company that deserves it.  keep up the good work Bruno.

Your welcome, bud. This list is just getting started and could easily be a full time job.

In re. Bruce/bcp18, show me a website/Linkedin page, then I'll be able to justify adding him in the OP and on the official site.

Oh really.

LoL. You have already posted 100s of times on that fact.

You know where exactly those posts are for him trying to get a bet on shipping of BFL products.

Proofs right there and you read those very posts once before.

802  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Avalon4 (A3222, 28nm, ~25GHS, ~0.6W/G) sample chips available here: on: November 04, 2014, 03:47:19 AM
Dogie's posts about BFL on June 6th 2013

So much shit in here its not even possible to go through it all. I couldn't give a shit if BFL shipped 3000000000000 chips tomorrow or Avalon decided to mine themselves. Its a shit company who is laughing so hard at anyone with a preorder.

If you ordered from Newegg and they offered you a money printing machine, and said "next week", laughed at you when you questioned them, then didn't do anything for 9 months but continue to make false promises. Why do you put up with it? Because you are blinded by greed.

*what if they ship my 1.5TH minirig tomorrow, what if what if what if*

BFL will have a documentary about then im a few years, and you'll all be referred to as victims xD

<Then a little later he posts...>

Rather than a giant paragraph, lets look at the facts/rumours/likely case:

30000000 fucking threads QQing about BFL every day
bitcointalk forum members probably make a decent chunk of the orders by $, due to singles, minirigs not exactly being impulse buys + the fact BFL spends SO much money advertising here
Their 1000 donation to 'charity' was scummy as hell
BFL can't be in a good financial position. Even if they had taken on 7 figure injections of cash, they've burnt SO much and have still made $0 from actual ASIC product that they're in a risky position
You are free to refund whenever you want
BFL are extremely vulnerable to private litigations for the false promises and failure to deliver
BFL would undoubtedly get bukaki'ed by government agencies if an investigation was to occur. Assets frozen etc
BFL would get spit roasted if the FCC found they were selling these uncertified products, even if it is just $7000 worth in 9 months LOL

The solution? A mass refund exodus. Everyone requests a refund at the same time. As many orders cancelled at once as possible. What if you're the last one in and they can't refund you, they get their assets frozen or seized? Better refund.

The momentum is too much, the cash flow is too much, the investors bricking themselves too much. BFL is forced to pull the plug, the rest of the orders get refunded. BFL ceases to exist, the real boys (Avalon, ASICMiner + DIYs) can use your money. The power is in your hands, no one elses.

tldr: Either force a refund tsunami or stfu
Edit: Added disclaimer, I have investments in ASICMiner and Avalon, however it doesn't change my outlook towards BFL. If I had been around at the time, I'd also have 10 preorders and going mental like you all.

Edit: Oh and look, refunds cancelled. Poor Josh, he's more scared of a Tsunami than SE Asia. Must have nightmares, all those lies for nothing ^_^

Oh the good old days...

What if the Avalon 4 units ship. What if?

Again these chips and any potential miner are exactly like BFL 1.5 TH minirigs or 'vapourware' you mentioned in 2013, they are a huge WHAT IF.

Oh how we forget what it is like to be free and willing to admit the truth about a unit and a company. Much much easier when you are not paid to omit the reality and spin it and avoid the topic by calling it 'mining speculation'. Clearly you didn't seem to mind pointing out the futility of relying on a company that didn't provide a definite or believable timeline. October is now November for these units. What is the development timeline? Show us something more than 'November'.

Josh Zerlan replied to Dogie on June 6th, 2013

So let me get this straight... Dogie is advocating a mass refund on BFL, who has a bunch of mining hardware. Lets say Dogies exceptionally brilliant plan came to pass (which is, in and of itself completely ridiculous, but we'll table that for now). Hypothetically, what do you think a company, faced with all pre-orders canceled, yet holding onto hundreds of TH of mining equipment is going to do? Say "Oh noes! Bye!" ... or do you think they'd press that hardware into service?

Yes, by all means, cancel all the orders, lets see how well that ends up working out.

For the record, BFL is capable of refunding all of the preorders in the queue and remaining in business. Would we have to pare down on employees? Sure we would, but then again, we wouldn't need so many employees if we aren't doing customer service anyway.
803  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Official Blacklist of Entities Operating in the Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency Space on: November 04, 2014, 03:35:51 AM

Bruce Peterson aka BCP19 for his support of BFL fraud when he knew perfectly well when shipping was NOT going to happen and then astro-turfing these forums with misrepresentations and lies about those rightly pointing out the inconsistency in the BFL Tape Out dates and deliver timelines.

Also attempting enter into bets with full knowledge of shipping dates and inside information all the while pretending to be just a "customer". That was a blatant misrepresentation in an attempt to get those bets where he knew all the BFL plans and information. Seriously that is direct fraud.
804  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 04, 2014, 03:13:00 AM
Customers for the Block Erupter Prisma distributed by Phasebird / iAsicminer concerned about late shipments and little communication.

We will need to monitor the situation and this is why I wanted to separate out ASICminer with any entity charged with distribution, which is iAsicminer, and not ASICMiner proper. It is unfortunate this is happening I would like to review more customers comments before changing this companies rating, iASICminer that is.

This is the email we sent Phasebird this morning. Including here to escalate greater transparency for all ASICMiner customers.

Good morning,
This is Ronald again, it has been nearly a month since our order was placed, and since that point we have not received any replies from you. Keeping tabs on your thread at Bitcointalk shows only one brief reply to the thread acknowledging the delay from Phasebird on October 25th. I had to go to ASICMiner's Facebook page to read friedcat's explanation of the issues with the BE200.

We are extremely disappointed in the lack of professionalism ASICMiner has demonstrated with this product launch, and the lack of communication that typically follows scam pre-orders, not legitimate sales. At nearly 15 BTC per order, you are not dealing with small home miners who have limited funds at risk, or who are only interested in small batches of hardware.

We fully expect an update today via email, and an update to your customers who you owe a response to on your Bitcointalk thread. We likewise fully expect compensation in the form of a partial refund and coupons -if- we decide to do business with you again, although from the irresponsible manner this launch has been handled, that is unlikely.

With a MOQ of 10 miners, and a minimum purchase price of 14.9 BTC, this level of delay is entirely unacceptable. If you are unable to respond to your customers' inquiries today, we will bring the matter up directly with friedcat in an attempt to arbitrate a solution, preferably one which does not attach ASICMiner's name to a product that, at present, entirely lacks customer support or feedback.

This has been a very disappointing experience for us in relation to ASICMiner, and future purchases will likely require the use of an escrow service to keep you honest and communicative, since apparently your priorities lie elsewhere from your hardware sales customers, and if that is the case, then I have to wonder if this is how ASICMiner will treat their investors after the IPO investments are raised.

To help improve our transparency in this exchange, I am going to make this an open letter and include it on the Bitcointalk thread verbatim to this email, but I still expect a reply via email today with regard to our hardware order.

Ronald (Praeluceo)

This is why you NEVER pre order mining gear... Not sure how many times it needs to be posted for people to let it sink in...

I totally agree Blazedout419, and I do not participate in pre-orders. I have had great success with ASICMiner and Bitmain hardware in the past, both companies have been very straight forward with issuing refunds on delayed hardware, and coupons for loyal customers. The Prisma was not represented to be a pre-order however. The posted shipping date was October 8th, which was right around when we placed our order. The expectation being that this would be like my other purchases from ASICMiner, where the order is placed, and then shipped within the next few days.

Round 1 Sales

Shipping date: 8th October, 2014 to 27th October, 2014
General Policy
1. Payment before shipping. The shipping order follows the payment order.

2. No refunds after the generation of tracking numbers.

3. If the corresponding tracking number has not been generated, we provide full refund starting from 27th October.
(The nominal refund amount follows the actual payment method, for example, 1 BTC refund for 1 BTC payment, 4k
USD refund for 4k USD payment)
Purchasing Procedure
1. Contact customer service via forum, email, IM or phone.
2. Fill the order details in the form provided by the customer service. (name/address/zip code/phone/email)
3. Pay according to the Bitcoin address given by the customer service.
4. Check for the tracking number when we start shipping.
5. Ask for refunds starting from 27th October if the tracking number has not been generated at that time.

However their ship date is now almost a month past, with only one official word from Phasebird, and it didn't articulate what sort of issue they had with the BE200s and their hashing board solution. We sent multiple e-mails to Phasebird when our order didn't ship, we got a re-negotiated ship date (the 15th) which slipped without response, and when the 27th came and went, we requested a status update again, and still no reply. So now I've made our latest inquiry to phasebird public, and subsequent correspondence will be handled directly with ASICMiner.

In the future, it seems that we will have to use escrow services even with previously reputable companies unless they actually have hardware that has already shipped. Batch #1 always gets burned, but for one of 2 ASIC manufacturers that I trust, this has been a terrible experience.

Edit to add this criminal investigation started against Black Arrow in the UK.

Got an update in regard to my fraud case i opened with the police, It's been passed now to thames valley police and things look like they are picking up.

04 November 2014

Dear Mr Kennerley


I’m writing to inform you about the current position of your report.

Experts at the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB) have reviewed the information and have found enough evidence for a possible police investigation. I am pleased to inform you your report has been sent to Thames Valley Police, who have recorded it under: • reference : awaiting local reference number allocation - in process

Thames Valley Police is responsible for any resulting investigation and for providing you with further updates to your report. Their contact details are details:

• Thames Valley Police by email at or

• by phone 01865 841148

When you contact Thames Valley Police, please give them your reference number (above).

If you would like more information on how to protect yourself from fraud, there is information

on the Action Fraud website at or you can call them on 0300 123 2040.

Thank you again for taking the time to report and helping us to make the UK a safer place for you and others.
805  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: November 04, 2014, 02:24:48 AM
How much BTC would you guys pay for a used sp30 right now?

Too little to get anyone to bite on selling it to me. Too much to make it profitable.
806  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Official Blacklist of Entities Operating in the Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency Space on: November 04, 2014, 02:22:38 AM
What no SLok?
807  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 04, 2014, 02:15:03 AM
BFL is circling the drain.

FTC is seeking approval for the transfer of BFL assets so that they can finally start reimbursing all customers that were never compensated adequately by BFL.

BFL gave Lykle de Vries aka SLok bitcoins and miners in compensation for lying for the BFL in Bitcointalk and BFL forums for years. He is a thief and should comply with the FTC order to return assets so customers can be reimbursed what they are owed.


This matter is before the Court on the Motion for Approval of Transfer Protocol and
Methodology for Transfer of Assets to Court Control, filed by the Temporary Receiver Eric L.
Johnson (“Temporary Receiver”), on October 29, 2014. Doc. #122. The Court finds that the
Motion should be granted.

The Stipulated Interim Order empowered Temporary Receiver to manage all assets of
BFL and to manage and administer the business of BFL. Doc. #54 at §§ X(B), X(H). The order
also authorized the Temporary Receiver to “begin establishing an adequate cash reserve to cover
potential refund liability. In this respect and under the supervision of Temporary Receiver, the
following actions may occur immediately . . . Conversion of Receivership Defendant’s
substantial bitcoin holdings to cash on a systematic and reasoned basis.” Doc. #54 at § XI(E)(4)

The Stipulated Interim Order requires all parties to “cooperate in transferring
Receivership Defendant’s bitcoins to a Court-controlled bitcoin wallet, under the direction and
supervision of Temporary Receiver. Temporary Receiver may hire independent professionals
and/or contractors, as he deems necessary, to ensure safe and secure transfer of bitcoins.” Doc.
#54 at § XI(C)(5).

IT IS ORDERED that the Temporary Receiver’s proposed Transfer Protocol containing
the methodology for transferring bitcoins held in Receivership Defendant Butterfly Labs Inc.
(BFL)’s Storage Wallet to a Court-controlled bitcoin wallet, Doc. #122 and Ex. A thereto, is

808  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 04, 2014, 02:03:52 AM continues to ignore customers questions.

The group buy that minersource and continues to underwhelm customers and the community. Avoid these entities if at all possible.

I appreciate Marto's and technobit's intention to provide an open,  transparent process.  This question should be easy to answer.  Could you answer it please?

Hello? How far behind are you guys, exactly?  Is there any way to get specific information on our orders?

809  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Avalon4 (A3222, 28nm, ~25GHS, ~0.6W/G) sample chips available here: on: November 03, 2014, 04:29:16 PM
It is pretty much game over for mining anyhow.

Take it to mining speculation please.

No. I don't get paid to ignore how purchasing any Avalon 4 based miner is a money loser why should I be taking that to mining speculation. It is fact not speculation.

It is a fair assessment of Avalon 28nm chips and units.

Way way too LATE no way to ROI do not buy AVALON 4 based miners. Compared to current miners already shipping you are recommending people to wait and then buy something that is not even ready or tested yet? With no reasonable timeline for production? Sorry but no one should recommend the Avalon 4 chip based miners if it is not even in production at this time given the competition already have comparable chips in tested units shipping now including your other benefactors Bitmaintech.

You have better options. Buy from people currently selling in stock. And definitely steer clear of Technobit version given their Minion board group buy still woefully late and riddled with RMA problems.

Do not wait or delay to buy something that at this point is not even tested yet. Insanity and disingenuous to say the least.

Guess we need a new thread to rate paid spoke people on their bias now.

Is buying anything Avalon 4 based a good miner purchase given the other companies selling 28nm tech right now? Be honest.
810  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 03, 2014, 04:07:31 PM
  Black Arrow Fire Sale.

Do not buy new or used. Fire hazard!!!

So this latest unit to burst into flames didn't have the large green electrolytic capacitors and it was "CE" certified with the new PSU?

It seems so.  the guy said he got it on October 31.  That picture looks very much like the pics the first guy posted also.

I fixed the image for you so that it'll load better.

Shitaki, on 03 Nov 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:
Are you saying that BOTH of your X-3 modules caught fire?
robotbtc said: Yes sir BOTH X-3 modules caught fire.

811  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Liquid Cooled Miner C1 Discussion and Support Thread on: November 03, 2014, 02:26:35 PM
Wow, this time, Bitmain really screwed me.

On their homepage, they write that the value of one C1 is 324.89 US$. I ordered two, so the value would be about 650 US$ In Swissfrancs:  595 Swiss Francs.

According to the declaration they gave to the Swiss customs, the value is 991 Swiss Francs. So I have to pay almost double of the import taxes.

Thank you, Bitmain!

Are you sure they didn't write $991? I don't see why it would be declared in any other currency than USD.

How is this helpful? You really are not listening to this customers problem are you?
812  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Avalon4 (A3222, 28nm, ~25GHS, ~0.6W/G) sample chips available here: on: November 03, 2014, 02:21:11 PM

Anyone seeking compensation is and has been for the last 18-20 months to sue Avalon, yet they haven't. But again, this isn't Avalon.

Listen dude.

Were all grown ups.

Admit the reality MILLIONS were lost because of Avalon the same people paying you to spin the message you are spinning now. You can't justify their wrong doing by the nobody sued them mantra. (Ask Marto and pretty much the same deal) We all know what they are and what they did. Ethically they don't have what it takes to play with SPTech, Bitmaintech or AsicMiner and Bitfury. It is pretty much game over for mining anyhow. Why would anyone even look at 28nm Avalons given they can't turn a penny and are definitely a loss across the board. Just because they pay you doesn't me we have to listen to you polish this turd of chip.

Bottom line this version of the chips is too late for anyone to make a penny. Stop pushing shit that is just not going to fly at any price.
813  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Avalon4 (A3222, 28nm, ~25GHS, ~0.6W/G) sample chips available here: on: November 03, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
No its not entirely new people, ngzhang took the engineering team after Avalon essentially disbanded and started again.
That's the issue, though. I'm not sure who the bigger problem was. Yifu or ngzhang. They were both seedy individuals who bashed, abused, and profited off this community.

The fact that ngzhang is involved at all is no better than if Yifu was still involved, is the long-and-short of it.

It's nice and all that they are under new management, but the sadistic horror of their first gen fiasco is still a bitter memory to those of us that went through it, and short of selling these with COD terms to us old-timers as a good-will gesture to restore faith (a stark contrast to the hate-fuck they gave us all for prepaying them last time and not getting things well beyond their own stated "no bullshit" terms), I can't imagine how anyone with a recollection of their prior antics isn't twitching with PTSD-induced flashbacks right now.

There were millions in damages and no apology, no real compensation and we are as community happy now because they shipped units that were not as competitive as others being offered?

Why is anyone waiting on this latest offering when there is absolutely no way to find a return on this investment? Because a paid spokesperson is spinning the message?

Walk away from Avalon and give them same respect they gave the community in past. They deserve no quarter and it is fair say that there are still injured community members that were never properly compensated. Again do not buy from these people when you have other options. Perhaps Bitmaintech yet another company represented by a spokesperson. Which is a better offer? That is the real question.

814  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 02, 2014, 01:17:29 PM
Keep up the nice work...this guide is pretty much spot on.

You should add more companies though...
Bit crane seems legit
Hashra does not seem legit

At this point adding lower volume companies that have little or no comments from paying customers is an issue trying to have more of a customer centered perspective versus the paid review type option here in the forum. I think it is more representative to have customers views obviously. Low volume sellers I don't think is a good option given the higher volume quality, price and support currently available. Suffice to say BitCrane is not very well talked about here in Bitcointalk from customers.

Can you find a lot of responses from customers? BitCrane can't find more than 1 person who purchased from them. Hashra is mess but I will review their thread and see what if anything should be added. Again home mining is not a good way to invest in Bitcoin at this time. So not sure how long this mining section will last anyhow given there is now no way to get a return on buying miners.

But again if you can point me to a large volume of customer reviews I will certainly add those and others.
815  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Need Quieter PWM 120MM Fans for the Antminer S3+ on: November 02, 2014, 10:38:28 AM
System fans and nearly silent! Find out how!
816  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-09-29] Coinfire: Butterfly Labs Josh Zerlan Deposition Hightlights on: November 02, 2014, 08:25:24 AM
They should be liquidated of assets with proceeds distributed to their mislead customers.

+1 Definitely the plan. I would love to see the FTC start doing that asap.
817  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer U3: Decentralization continued. Order now, Ship on Nov. 5th on: November 02, 2014, 06:21:50 AM

If Bitmain really wants to support the home miner, the design has to be drastically simplified so that people can make a working miner with parts from their junk box.

Post what the MSRP needs to be for each unit.
Post what TH/s the units needs to be.
Post what the power consumption per unit needs to be.

What you are proposing is really an impossible unit at this point in time given the BTC drop. There is nothing right now that can be built to make a return and if it is only useful as a miner. Dead is home mining and possibly massive farm are dead as well especially those that do not have the cheapest hydro possible.

at this point, USB miners are worthless other than conversation pieces

Imagine a phone or device with an ASIC chip that mines continually and are embedded in billions of consumer devices.

USB miners are worthless. The way we break the farms and get 'decentralization', as indicated in the thread title, is not with USB's but with embedded ASIC miner chips in devices already cheap and in mass production. Think coffeemaker / miner that is wifi / LAN enabled. Waste miner heat could help keep coffee warm.

818  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 02, 2014, 06:06:39 AM
 Black Arrow continues to disappoint.

We have seen a number of companies do this. Fail to deliver and move on to the next chip with 100s or 1000s of unhappy customers still waiting for product. Black Arrow is a company that should be shut down and their executives brought to trial.

^^^ lol

But.... seeing as I took delivery of an X1 earlier this month it looks like I'll (allegedly) be missing out on a X1.5.

That's good. People who ordered after me get a more powerful product.
Feeling the love here  Undecided

I ordered a year ago and have gotten nothing. No X3, no X1s. Now they talk about 14nm. What a joke. If they get one single preorder then i will have seriously lost faith in human intelligence.

My definition of a scam company is one that takes money from customers by deceiving them then, fails to provide anything of value in return.

Black Arrow's own contradictory words proves they are liars and covers the deception angle. I've received nothing of value in return for the money I paid almost a year ago, so there you go.

We have a proven scam company actively soliciting a million dollars+ from potential investors for vapour-ware miners made from Samsung wont give you 14nm in a month from now you fucking clowns ASICs.

Not to mention violating every consumer protection law in the book, mail fraud and tax evasion on the $90,000 in coins they mined.

To any potential investor I can guarantee they're going to be so in your face with the tens if not more millions of dollars they'll make off your investment while giving absolutely nothing in return for your cool mil. In-fact I wouldn't be surprised if they've even figured out a way to leave you with a bill to pay when all is said and done, you know just for that little extra bit of spite.

well, they sold these based on promises that they are not keeping.

they are violating consumer laws all over the world.

fraud?  as far as I'm concerned no doubt about it.  a company run by a known credit card fraudster that has done nothing but change his game to a new kind of scam as far as I'm concerned.

anyone that sends these people a dime at this point needs a CT scan. 

they failed technically with miners that start on fire, they failed logistically by being unable to develop this or ship this in any sort of reasonable timeframe and they have failed financially, by squandering their customers' money,  they have failed miserably in terms of customer service/relations.

To me it seems that they have failed in every aspect of this project and this business. 

anyone would be better of plunking that money down on the craps table than investing with a  company with a performance record like this.
819  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is BFL using BitPay for money laundering purposes good for advancing Bitcoin? on: November 01, 2014, 09:27:55 PM
[11/12/2013 1:04:32 PM] Josh Zerlan: Once or twice, ok, people can live with that...but now it's just the way BFL is. We simply don't deliver when we say we will.

Wow! That truly does nail it. And only at a cost of 20%. Now, imagine doing the same thing but incorporate Bitcoin. I know it's a stretch, but is it possible to someway, somehow recoup that 20% or even make a profit via laundering money via using Bitcoin as one of the steps?

Apologies for the crazy question.


Using BTC... you could cut out a lot of the need to bribe / fees etc.

I think BFL was hoping no one would track this Gleb. But sticking 1 million in like that was the DUMBEST move possible. Red Flags everywhere. I think they got scared and started looking for ways to get the money hidden.

Look at what was going on with BFL at the time.

1. Lawsuits started coming.
2. DA was looking at them.
3. Houses were being bought.
4. No accountant to help them keep things "hidden" or at least be less conspicuous. Look at the accountant talking on Skype particularly about keep the amounts down.
5. Personal loans from BFL.
6. Personal spending on company credit cards.
7. Extensive overseas trips by BFL even though there no real sales being generated after the 65nm debacle.
8. Expense accounts in BTC for major members of the team.
9. Extensive adverting campaigns.
10. Extensive booth purchases for conferences where they were paying a high premium to be the only mining company at a show.

Sonny Vleisides was brazen prior to the infamous $1M USD transaction, becoming even more brazen afterwards all the way up to less than 24 hours prior to the raid by the FTC.

Ironically, Josh nor SLok nor Bruce have taken the time to negate my position. It's almost like I convince them it's true, hence why bother. Besides, I'm just a drama queen that steals barn wood at night to augment what I steal from Bitcoin 100 and the cheap hardware I amass due to getting better queue positions thanks to my vouching efforts.

820  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM on: November 01, 2014, 09:23:00 PM
You're going to have a long wait...

As long as waiting for a BFL miner?

[11/12/2013 1:04:32 PM] Josh Zerlan: Once or twice, ok, people can live with that...but now it's just the way BFL is. We simply don't deliver when we say we will.
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