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321  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Ebay Forbids Bitcoin for Payments on: July 19, 2015, 11:08:31 AM
eBay should get an escrow and go from there. Not hard...

And who would pay that escrow?

Since bitcoin only try to secure the seller and not the buyer they need to do a lot of extra work they dont need to think about with other payment metodes.
Make a 2 out of 3 multisig. One key to the buyer, one key to the seller, one key to the escrow.
As long as everything goes fine, the escrow doesn't really have to do anything, so he doesn't get paid. He only gets paid if there is an dispute and he has to actually do something.
I think, OpenBazar is using something like that and it makes sense.
This kind of protection is much better than chargebacks since, buyer and seller are protected. I don't get this whole "Buyer is always right" policy, from most payment processors. Buyer are also often fraudsters and make a lot of damage to merchants.
322  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BTC vs. early internet Investments on: July 17, 2015, 05:01:00 PM
Inflation is a pretty inaccurate thing. It makes sense, when it comes to food, shelter, etc., but it doesn't make much sense, when it comes to technical stuff. Look at the cost of a computer 20 years ago and now.
The service sector is also just way bigger than 20 years ago. That means, that when you start a business, it might be sufficient, when you can code to have product, you can rent the whole infrastructure pretty cheap.
But that also means that there is much more competition. Lower costs=more people try to get into this market.
So, I don't think, you can't really compare internet in 1980 with Bitcoin today. There are just so much things, to take into account.
323  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain split of 4 July 2015 on: July 17, 2015, 11:06:52 AM
The warning about 30 confirmations has disappeared from the header.. Does that mean SPV clients are safe to use now with ~ 6 confirmations?
I don't think so. According to bitcoin.org's status page, it still says that an event is ongoing. https://bitcoin.org/en/alerts

there is no more alert on bitcoin.org too, but it seems not clear if they are safe or not(i mean spv client), you can simply try to wait less than 3 confirmations and see if it go well, try with a very small amount
as long as there is no split, you are fine. I am not sure, if the mining pools took countermeasures to avoid a split, but there wasn't one for a while now.
There are also more nodes which have updated their software, so that makes the network also more secure.
As far as I know, there wasn't even any damage done during the splits.
324  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How would you tell kids about bitcoin? on: July 17, 2015, 07:18:45 AM
This whole thread is a good example, why so many people keep away from Bitcoin(and why, in my opinion a lot of people shouldn't have kids)
I most certainly would restrain from using words like "blockchain" or "double spend" when I tell a person (kids are just person, who haven't had as much experience(which is a good think in a lot of cases), they are not stupid). I would restrain from telling them about volatility.
So, I would explain it, the same way, I explained it to my sister(who is 22 now).
Download this app on your smartphone, write down this words for a backup, keep the backup save, here have some Bitcoin, look there is this site, where you can use your Bitcoin.
For a person, who depends on you(aka kids) just give them Bitcoin from time to time to use it(aka allowance)
For a person, who earn their own money(aka adults) show them a good exchange to convert fiat to Bitcoin. Now you can warn them about volatility, not putting all eggs in one basket and so on.
If they have questions, try to answer that questions in a simple way(and here is the big advantage about kids over adults: they ask more questions and they tell you, if they didn't understand the answer).
So, keep it simple, get your priorities right(most important thing is, how to use it, not that it will destroy all banks)
325  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Backup of encrypted wallets: are they encrypted, too? on: July 17, 2015, 06:43:00 AM
When you add a passphrase to Bitcoin Core, it throws out all unused addresses in the pool, so any previous backups are no longer valid because they have the wrong keys. You must back up the wallet after adding a passphrase, just like the instructions say.
So, adding a passphrase creates new address and send all funds from previously created addresses to the new addresses?
That still doesn't make sense. From the way, I understand Bitcoin Core, it creates 100 addresses at once.
So, I used address 1-10 and than made a backup. The backup contains all 100 addresses. Then I used address 11-20 and came to mind, that I should encrypt the whole thing. According to you, it deleted address 21-100 and creates new addresses. It still has address 1-20 which could contain money and which are in the backup. I could even have given out one of these addresses for let's say weekly payments of a sig campaign here on the forum and would get Bitcoin in the future.
Only money that is send to new addresses is save.

So, I am still right about, deleting your old backups after encrypting your wallet.
326  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchain split of 4 July 2015 on: July 17, 2015, 06:33:52 AM
Bitcoin is becoming the most centralized of the decentralized digital currency out there.To me Bitcoin is becoming a joke.Paid a higher fee than needed but still took 3 hours for the first confirmation on a transaction today
Keep in mind that Bitcoin is the most used decentralized digital currency: more value, more transactions, more people who could gain from attacking it.

I could also just write my own website from scratch, nobody cares about and after a year proclaim, that I am the best programmer in the world, since nobody hacked my site.
327  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are we stress testing again? on: July 17, 2015, 06:29:34 AM
What do you want it to do? hold tx's in mempool for longer time increasing memory requirements exponentially across the network? The real value of using the system is for VALID transactions. Ofcourse people are free (not literally) to try to fraudulently create bad tx's but that is the beauty of the consensus protocol that doesn't allow these to be entering the network and creates the value of what we call Bitcoin.

In software speak, I suggest we follow KISS which is what it is. A clear seperation of concerns and not worry about holding metadata or increasing tx lengths because of another small use-case of analytically drawing conclusions from that dataset that does not strongly correlate with the true intention of Bitcoin.
Indeed.  There's a balance to be struck in any such risk/reward scenario.  I can't see how the cost required would outweigh the relatively small benefit of having an extended record of the mempool.  And if we did keep a record of anything that doesn't make it into the blockchain (i.e. errors and omissions) , how do you then make that record decentralised and tamper-proof?  We'd have to have a new blockchain that records what doesn't go into the original blockchain, heh.
I kinda knew it that my post is going to attract some code monkeys and their attempts to burn the strawmen. I'm just going to quote them for the future reference.

Anyway, for non code monkeys, the longer explanation is as follows:

There's absolutely no point of storing the unconfirmed transactions in RAM. As any competent software engineer will explain you it is sufficient to store a cache (or map, in CS terms) of transaction hash to single bit, meaning "transaction was seen and it is known to be 'valid' or 'invalid'". The 'valid' transactions will ultimately get promoted to the permanent blockchain, the 'invalid' transactions are mostly of the forensic interest to investigate errors and attempted frauds. The transaction not in cache are neither 'valid' nor 'invalid', they just need the full verification run.

Obviously, some of those code monkeys are in the employ of the fraudsters who explicitly rely on their fraud attempts to get no permanent record on the blockchain. That's why I quoted them above, we'll see what fraud they will try to cook up.



Great lets exponentially increase bandwidth+storage requirements at 0 cost because fraud attempts knowingly will pay 0 fees and won't get in to a block but will be stored on the harddrives of their victims causing the whole network to shutdown in just a few days.

You don't know what you are talking about. Move along.
I guess not everybody would have to store such transactions, if there is a bureau that wants this data, they can store it them self.
I also don't see the concern about tempered records. You can't make a fake "address A tried to send money to address B"-transaction, since it still would have to be signed with the private key of address A.
328  Economy / Services / Re: [Unconfirmed TXs] non-profit transaction rescue service (starting at 0.003 BTC) on: July 17, 2015, 06:21:09 AM
So, let's say we have address A (1BTC) which sends to address B(merchant: 0.7 BTC) and address C(change 0.2BTC) so it's 0.1 BTC fee.
So, can I change receiving address B? Or can I just say, there is less going to C, so the fee gets higher, but then I also could say there is less going to B, so the merchant gets less money.

You don't replace anything, you just sweep your change address (C) (if you own the change addr) back to itself.  If your the recipient (B) who wants to sweep a transaction they you just sweep the receipt address

Code:
CPFP initiated from Change address (C)
====== Unconfirmed TX ======|== CPFP TX ===
{ A: 1.00 } -> { B: 0.70 }  |
            \> { C: 0.20 } -|-> { C: 0.01 }
               Fee: 0.10        Fee: 0.19

==OR==

CPFP initiated from Recieving address (B)
====== Unconfirmed TX ======|== CPFP TX ===
{ A: 1.00 } -> { B: 0.70 } -|-> { B: 0.51 }
            \> { C: 0.20 }  |
               Fee: 0.10        Fee: 0.19

Examples of this in action:
Unconfirmed TX
CPFP TX

Again... this is a hack... If you want to do it right you generate a new address for each and every transaction always and forever and ever and ever... Wink

I'm handing out free lunch here... guess I wasn't worried too much about overcooking the chicken...
OK, thanks, that makes sense.
But what if, there is no C or C is just too small to give a good additional fee? Is there a workaround for that?
329  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin noob on: July 16, 2015, 05:47:42 PM
Kraken fees are pretty high, I don't recommend them.  For small purchases in the EU, look for an exchange that takes bank transfers.  It is the cheapest way to go usually.  They say coinbase, but they take ach.  I think it is different in the eu.  

One thing I also recommend is that if you are starting out it is a good idea to play some faucets to get some dust.  It is a waste of time as far as actually making money, but you can use it to learn about wallets and things.  Once you feel comfortable with that you can move on to real money (and stop using faucets because they are a waste of time).  The best faucet is moonbitcoin because you don't have to keep going back every five minutes.  You can just pop in once a day or whatever and collect a decent amount of satoshis.  Good luck!
Which exchange is cheaper than kraken?
Which exchange doesn't take bank transfers?

I really wouldn't recommend faucets.
I also wouldn't recommend localbitcoin. It might be nice to use at first, but it get's annoying if you do it several times, so the time that you initially spend to register an account on an exchange pays off pretty fast, not even speaking about the involved fees/higher prices.
330  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How does it feel to spend bitcoins and soon after the price goes up? on: July 16, 2015, 05:38:02 PM
What's done is done.
My BTC are currently worth less than when I have bought them. A lot of people would argue, that I have lost money. No, I didn't, since I wasn't stupid enough to sell them at a lower price, than I bought them.

I also mostly just buy new coins, when I used them, so there is also no loss there.

People are just worrying too much. The only loss is in your head(pun intended)
331  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin noob on: July 16, 2015, 05:30:05 PM
Hey, so I heard about bitcoin a while ago and figured I'd give it a go, basically just wanted to buy some stuff with bitcoin but apparently it's a lot more complicated than just exchanging money for bitcoins. I downloaded kraken and found that if I wanted to start I'd have to pay a fee of 2k just to get started.

Also the wallet I got "bither" is pretty confusing. I don't have a clue about api's or qr codes. I just want to buy around €500 worth of bitcoins, store them on a wallet I can actually understand and buy stuff, without all the technical stuff that goes along with it. Is that possible?

I think kraken is charge % fees for buy.
You can use Circle App, Coinbase or meet people around you to buy bitcoin through LocalBitcoin.com.

And store your coins on your wallet(desktop, hardware wallet, or paper wallet), just don't store your coins on web wallet or exchanger. I suggest you, use electrum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973768.0 or if you want to store for long long time, use paper wallet.

-snip-
Could you explain, what exactly you mean by this sentence?
The only bitcoin-related kraken, I know, is https://www.kraken.com/
Nothing to download there and no fee for just registering.

Maybe OP downloaded iOS app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/kraken-bitcoin-exchange/id914671502
When I get this right, you still have to register on the website to use this app.
The 2k fee still doesn't make sense.
This is how fees work:
https://www.kraken.com/help/fees

you have to pay a fee of 0.35% for the first 5k USD you spend. That doesn't mean you have to spend 5k. It just means that after you reached 5k you have to pay less fees.
332  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are we stress testing again? on: July 16, 2015, 05:19:28 PM
When you delete a transaction from your wallet, doesn't mean the other nodes will delete it. Right?
Does Replace-By-Fee mean that you can replace the output-address? If so, then this "feature" just seriously breaks Bitcoin.
That is why a transaction is not a real transaction until it has at least one confirmation (is included into a block).  Before then, it is just a transaction "candidate"...

Merchants should never ship products before getting at least one confirmation.
If that would be true, than every real life transaction would seriously be broken. Even if I attach a ridiculous high fee to a transaction, it could still take an hour to confirm, since it could take an hour to find a block.

Interesting.  So it is potentially possible that BitPay never gets that transaction, and I receive what I purchased for free.
Yes, but the merchant should never ship their products without having at least 1 confirmation.

When you delete a transaction from your wallet, doesn't mean the other nodes will delete it. Right?
The other nodes will not relay it and upon restart, they won't have the transaction.

Does Replace-By-Fee mean that you can replace the output-address? If so, then this "feature" just seriously breaks Bitcoin.
Full RBF means that you can replace the output addresses, but what is currently recommended for use is partial RBF. This requires that the inputs and outputs remain the same as the transaction it replaces but the only difference is the fee.

At some point, the network will "forget" you transaction.

Where is this officially documented?  Provide a link please.  I find it concerning that a transaction sent could be "forgotten" by the network for any reason, that seems like a huge problem.
I don't have a link, I will get back to you with that if I can find it. However, I know this after looking in the source code. Nodes will only relay transactions once when they receive it or when another node asks for it. The sending node will continue to broadcast the transaction while it is unconfirmed. If it stops broadcasting it, over time nodes will begin to not have the transaction in their mempools, either from restarts or other rules that people might set. Once enough nodes have dropped a transaction, a double spend can be attempted and if that double spend is confirmed, then the original will be dropped as a double spend.
What exactly do you mean by sending node? Do you mean, when I shut down my client the transcation could be lost?
When I use mycelium, I just activate my internet connection for sending the transaction and deactivate it immediately after that, but I still had transaction that where unconfirmed for some hours and got confirmed in the end.
333  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin noob on: July 16, 2015, 04:55:44 PM
Hey, so I heard about bitcoin a while ago and figured I'd give it a go, basically just wanted to buy some stuff with bitcoin but apparently it's a lot more complicated than just exchanging money for bitcoins. I downloaded kraken and found that if I wanted to start I'd have to pay a fee of 2k just to get started.

Also the wallet I got "bither" is pretty confusing. I don't have a clue about api's or qr codes. I just want to buy around €500 worth of bitcoins, store them on a wallet I can actually understand and buy stuff, without all the technical stuff that goes along with it. Is that possible?
Could you explain, what exactly you mean by this sentence?
The only bitcoin-related kraken, I know, is https://www.kraken.com/
Nothing to download there and no fee for just registering.
334  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Backup of encrypted wallets: are they encrypted, too? on: July 16, 2015, 04:51:04 PM
backupwallet is the same as copying wallet.dat

encrypting the wallet means encrypting the private keys.

If you have made a backup, and then you encrypt your wallet, you need to make a new backup because the old one will not work anymore.

Anyway that's my understanding, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  And I'm sure I've missed some important points.
Wrong.
The wallet.dat is designed to fit in every installation of Bitcoin Core.

Your scenario just means, you made an unencrypted backup, before encrypting it, so your encryption was pointless if somebody finds the backup.
If you encrypt your wallet, you should delete all unencrypted backups(so all backups, that were made before the encryption)

Wrong. Wink
When you add a passphrase to Bitcoin Core, it throws out all unused addresses in the pool, so any previous backups are no longer valid because they have the wrong keys. You must back up the wallet after adding a passphrase, just like the instructions say.
So, adding a passphrase creates new address and send all funds from previously created addresses to the new addresses?
335  Economy / Services / Re: [Unconfirmed TXs] non-profit transaction rescue service (starting at 0.003 BTC) on: July 16, 2015, 04:41:40 PM
Since I heard about CPFP, I wonder, if it doesn't enable easier double spends.
Does the receiving address have to stay the same? Couldn't that be changed pretty quick, should miners go rough?
Any change address can be used.  It's just the nature of me trying to do this second hand.  Since any change address I generated will be useless to the person trying to get the TX out of hock.  My script recycles address so that I don't have to ask for a list of addresses from people.

Just makes it simpler for me to hand (python) code the TX... no other reason
That didn't answer my question, or maybe I just didn't understand it.

So, let's say we have address A (1BTC) which sends to address B(merchant: 0.7 BTC) and address C(change 0.2BTC) so it's 0.1 BTC fee.
So, can I change receiving address B? Or can I just say, there is less going to C, so the fee gets higher, but then I also could say there is less going to B, so the merchant gets less money.
336  Economy / Economics / Re: Why have Bitcoin instead of cash? on: July 16, 2015, 04:25:05 PM
Cash is dirty and full of bacteria, bitcoin is digital clean and doesn't rot.

cash can also be faked pretty easily, and you will not even notice it, bitcoin do not have this problem

sometime when i pay with cash at the supermarket i fear that i'm giving false money, because maybe part of those belongs to a rest of another supermarket or another shop that was holding faked money without knowing it

*lol* I bought something against that some years ago. Maybe you need something like it too then: Safescan 155i Cheesy

It works great and feels safe if you need to check money.

The problem with faked money is that, when you have such, they will take it from you and you get nothing in return. Hearns plans for tainting coins could have a similar effect when he gets his will.

100 euro for that thing, better to spend in a trezonr i guess  Cheesy

yeah but the big problem is not the seized aspect of it, but the fact that they will ask you from where you found those faked money

and if you can't give them a suitable and convincing answer you can go to jail for having counterfeit money, so it's a very problematic and dangerous thing

Yes... though its something you really would want when you receive cash sometimes. Which is somewhat unavoidable when handling bitcoins. A trezor cant help there. You dont want to get cash that turns out to be not much more than paper at the end. I bought mine used on ebay and it works great and fast. Wink

You should make a copy of the ID of someone you exchange money with. Then, in case you got coins that were scammed, or money that is tainted, you can show who you dealt with. It would be for your own safety to stay out of anything illegal.
I don't think, much people would do business with you, when you ask for an ID, especially when you even want to copy it.
I certainly wouldn't do that.

Its not needed for escrow. But when you are a money exchanger, i met some of those through local bitcoins, then you want to have a copy of the ID. I was told police can knock on the door and ask what they did with the coins they received. Then you really want to have an ID that you can show them. Otherwise the money exchanger is in trouble. And im sure that money exchangers would not do business with someone who doesnt want to give a copy. I mean they see him in person so there is  no reason to not give it besides they are likely scammers. Then not trading would be better.

Though the risk might be not so big and a copy not needed when its about small amounts.
That is exactly my problem. If you give every random guy you met over localbitcoins a copy of my ID, you can be sure, someone will use it for identity theft.
I am even worried, about the copies I gave to MtGox, even thought it seemed serious at that time.
337  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are we stress testing again? on: July 16, 2015, 04:17:10 PM
I am not sure if this has been said in this thread, and it seems to be a lot of back and forth from the pages I read, so I figured I would just ask.

If I sent a transaction and didn't set the fee high enough, will the transaction eventually roll back?  The BTC have left my wallet at this point, and it was for a paid service, so I am wondering if I have to worry about the transaction not going through.

It was through BitPay, so the vendor got their money I am sure, but I didn't know if the transaction itself would revert back because of the backlog. 
The BTC has not really left your wallet until the transaction is included in a block (confirmed). It means you can 'override' your transaction, but it depends on your client.
Which client can "override" a transaction aka double spend it?
How do they trick the nodes, that just won't accept a double spend in their mempool?
You can create a double spend with Bitcoin Core using console commands. Also, since some nodes won't relay or accept transactions with low fees, changing the fee get the double spend accepted into some mempools when the original did not. Otherwise, nodes that enabled Replace-By-Fee will allow double spends as long as the fee is greater than the original and nodes that are Bitcoin XT will relay double spends.

Say I don't go the double spend route.  Will the low fee transaction be cleared out the of the mempool at some point, or will it just eventually get processed?
At some point, the network will "forget" you transaction. You just need to either delete it from your wallet or not run your client for a few days. It will be as if the transaction never happened.
When you delete a transaction from your wallet, doesn't mean the other nodes will delete it. Right?
Does Replace-By-Fee mean that you can replace the output-address? If so, then this "feature" just seriously breaks Bitcoin.
338  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: nothing to see here, move along. on: July 16, 2015, 03:24:43 PM
I'm assuming since the original post and thread title has been edited, it turns out this wasn't the case?  Even if the initial conclusions may have been a little premature in this particular instance, it's still reassuring to know that people spend time considering all the possibilities and doing their best to make sure this system continues to function as intended.  I applaud the OP's enthusiasm, but just suggest tempering it a touch and having others check the figures before announcing your findings.  Don't let this prevent you from asking bold questions in future, though, it could well pay off next time.
The only premature thing, was to delete his first post.
There is nothing wrong with posting a theory. The whole point about posting a theory is so people can look into it and tell if the author has made some errors.
Nothing to be ashamed of.
339  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Show me your Bitcoin XT on: July 16, 2015, 03:21:03 PM
as I mentioned here earlier, I'm already running full XT node (wow, I'm one of the one hundred worldwide these day)



anyway, so far it seems quite pointless, even I'm little bit disappointed by core developers and their communication about bitcoin, block size and upcoming changes, I'm about to uninstall it and run core again in order to support something, what's need actually my "support" even more.

I think, that this XT stuff will never happen in the future anyway.. Tongue Tongue

What do you want to tell us with this screenshot? It doesn't sync?
Are you aware that you should be able do use your local blockchain from your Bitcoin Core-client and you should also be able to connect to Bitcoin Core-nodes?
340  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are we stress testing again? on: July 16, 2015, 03:17:30 PM
I am not sure if this has been said in this thread, and it seems to be a lot of back and forth from the pages I read, so I figured I would just ask.

If I sent a transaction and didn't set the fee high enough, will the transaction eventually roll back?  The BTC have left my wallet at this point, and it was for a paid service, so I am wondering if I have to worry about the transaction not going through.

It was through BitPay, so the vendor got their money I am sure, but I didn't know if the transaction itself would revert back because of the backlog. 
The BTC has not really left your wallet until the transaction is included in a block (confirmed). It means you can 'override' your transaction, but it depends on your client.
Which client can "override" a transaction aka double spend it?
How do they trick the nodes, that just won't accept a double spend in their mempool?
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