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761  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 16, 2017, 07:33:10 PM
Why would lightning layer not be for the average Joe? It could be literally without fees if he and Starbucks agree there should be no fees. What would be the incentive for any of sides, he and Starbucks, not to do it?

It is certainly possible and might even happen for a while but you don't need the worlds most secure network to secure coffee funds. Opening a lightning channel could still cost Starbucks or the customer $10-$100 in fees to open or close on the bitcoin network. More likely Starbucks would open a channel with your bank and it's suppliers and close the channel each day, week, month to settle the account.

I disagree. As far as i understood the Lightning protocol, although it's not easy and maybe I'm mistaken, if millions of customers open long lasting channel with Sturbucks there is no need to close all of them to bring funds back to fiat. Lighning channels can transfer the funds between each another, and in the end of the day Starbacks can transfer the funds from all daily transactions to "closing" channel (to call it that way) and confirm all of them from arbitrarily large number of customers with paying one single transaction fee for closing the "closing" channel. I believe they would gladly pay one opening/closing fee for each day, regarding the potential number of transactions.


I don't think opening a channel with Starbucks and every other company you deal with is going to be the most efficient use of LN. If the average Joe does use LN, he will open channels with a bank or service provider like Coinbase. That provider will have open channels with major companies like Starbucks and your employer so that there are payments being made in both directions. The companies are paying out to some people and being paid in by others but only the net difference is recorded to the blockchain periodically. However, most people will just leave their coins with the bank/provider to handle the details so I still don't think the average Joe will use LN. The average person reading this thread might though.


you guys just don´t get it: by the time core´s bitcoin plans come into fruition when an average bitcoiner goes to a Starbucks and wants a coffee, the staff will always serve him/her first and bow to him/her, because they know that this bitcoiner may use his bitcoin und just fuckin buy the whole Starbuck place. 
762  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 15, 2017, 02:09:30 PM


Bcash news .Approximately 36 hours after the upgrade, a new block has been mined using the old protocol rules. This block 504032 is invalid...

Its being called bitcoin cash classic . Satoshis true vision without ver,wu Smiley

from twitter "I love block 504032. Everybody please run a #bcash node v16.0 to support the classic chain: https://download.bitcoinabc.org/0.16.0/  Don't forget to demand airdrops on both chains from your exchanges and wallet providers."

no comedian could have come up with better shit...  Cheesy


edit: choo choo carolina mothermoonfucker gentlemen.
763  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: November 15, 2017, 02:00:28 PM
Hmm, als was würdest Du die verzweifelten, panischen Versuche bezeichnen, auf Fundamentaldaten und technische Details zu scheissen und über irgendwelchen Bitcoins, Shitcoins, ICOs, Signature Kampagnen und Forks ein paar mehr Euro Cent zu bekommen und sich dabei selbst in Zukunft ins Knie zu schiessen?!

alts, ICO´s, forks = gier. da hast du recht. ich hatte deinen post bezogen auf die bitcoin kursentwicklung. sry.
764  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 15, 2017, 12:58:26 PM
lol, all the articles written in the last few days about the end of the bitcoin bull market are becoming obsolete faster than even most bulls expected. fkn awesome. core devs are great. let´s thank them.
765  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: November 15, 2017, 12:49:50 PM
Der Kurs könnte auch seitwärts tendieren oder zumindest könnte die Steigung abflachen. Da die Nachfrage (zu einem guten Teil die grenzenlose Gier) da ist, vermute ich eher einen weiteren Anstieg. Teilweise unterbrochen von Angst und Panik, die ja mit der Gier fest verbunden sind.

finde ich ne überhebliche aussage. als btc wal...  Wink
766  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: November 15, 2017, 12:39:27 PM
mal zurück zum Thema zu kommen. Was denken die Analysten über den Anstieg. Haben ja bald die 7000 Dollar wieder erreicht. Gehen wir dadurch oder prallen wir wieder ab? THX Smiley
Wird über kurz oder lang weiter hoch gehen, sonst würde es ja nicht mehr funktionieren. Es muss immer bergauf gehen wenn der Rubeln weiter rollen soll. Ich hab mich von einem sinkenden BTC seit geraumer Zeit gedanklich verabschiedet und hinterfrage das auch nicht mehr weil es keine plausible Gundlage gibt sondern nur die Gier nach mehr und das funktioniert, dafür sind die Teilnehmer so erzogen worden. Kursbewegungen von mehr als $1000 pro Tag sind auch nicht mehr unnormal, gibt ja keine plausible Bewertungsmöglichkeit für das Spekulationsobjekt.

wenn bitcoin auch nur geringe anteile an bereichen wie dem online-payment bereich oder dem international remittances bereich abdecken soll, dann muss der gegenwert eines einzelnen coins noch mindestens um den faktor 10-100 steigen, damit der fiat gegenwert dieser finanzbereiche überhaupt abgedeckt werden kann. was hat das denn mit gier zu tun?
wenn ich als hodler darauf warte, dass eine massenadaption kommt, was hat das mit gier zu tun?

ich stelle mal in den raum, dass manche, die von der GIER der anderen sprechen, vielleicht eher NEID meinen. den eigenen.

edit: typo
767  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: November 14, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
Ich vermute, es geht ein paar Tage bis Wochen eher seitwärts weiter und dann wieder rauf, ...

Vielleicht bricht es auch nochmal kurzfristig ein bischen ein. Der Anstieg 2016/2017 war ja schon extrem.

... sobald sich das Ganze mit der Forkerei beruhigt hat...

Die beruhigen sich in nächster Zeit nicht mehr. Die einen sind so wütend (über ihr Versagen bei der Machtergreifung), dass sie bereits Schaum vor dem Maul haben. Bei den anderen wurde die Gier geweckt (analog zu den Altcoins). Ich denke, es geht gerade erst so richtig los.

sehe ich ähnlich. es wurde hier im thread auch schon geposted:

1. runde: bitcoin = erfolg. aber nicht alle haben abgesahnt. andere wollen auch absahnen also:
2. runde: altcoins = erfolg oder misserfolg schwer zu bewerten, aber abgesahnt haben einige. aber immer noch nicht alle. also:
3. runde: ICO via ether = erfolg oder misserfolg schwer zu bewerten, aber abgesahnt haben einige. aber immer noch nicht alle. also:
4. runde: bitcoin forken = erfolg oder misserfolg too soon to tell, aber abgesahnt haben einige. aber immer noch nicht alle. also: rinse&repeat...

ich schätze da werden dann demnächst wöchentlich forks kommen. dann werden sie wahrscheinlich anfangen:

5. runde: altcoins forken
6. runde: ICO´s forken. (lol, geht das?)
7. runde: bitcoin forks forken (geht ja schon los mit bcash+ im januar)


edit: typo
768  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: November 14, 2017, 12:24:14 PM

hass...


ich bin mit dem, was core bisher erreicht hat in sachen bitcoin, mit der art und weise (focus auf dezentralisierung) sehr zufrieden. warum gerade jetzt, auf dem höhepunkt des erfolges, all diese attacken kulminieren, weiss ich nicht. jetzt hatten wir jahrelang "civil war" und jetzt sind die lager endlich in zwei verschiedene chains gesplittet und es gibt trotzdem keine ruhe von den bigblockern. wieso wollen die bigblocker unbedingt bitcoin zerstören?

ihr habt jetzt bcash, ihr habt einen CEO, ihr habt sogar satoshi n. (lol) mit im boot. warum gebt ihr keine ruhe und spielt weiter auf eurem eigenen feld? hört das denn nie auf? was wollt ihr noch hier?

edit: noch
769  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 14, 2017, 11:50:44 AM
BCH was dead until Segwit2X died...now it's a thing again.

Until January when Coinbase releases peoples' BCH to the millions of users that like free money.

that is why they are going to fork bcash into bcash+ on jan 2nd...  Roll Eyes
770  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 14, 2017, 07:33:48 AM

It pisses me off how much smarter than me you are.  Angry Cheesy
grrr

when moon?

he isn´t. missing to see the context, the bigger picture is not smart.

That might apply just as well to me. I dumped, I'm hugely biased. Chinese bootlegging is a terrifying trillion dollar a year industry. I just can't help seeing these things as knock-off Bitcoins. But it is a protocol after all.

Ignore me. I'm torn. I'm babbling. I don't know.


when it comes to thieves staying unbiased is not the way to go.
771  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 14, 2017, 07:21:53 AM

It pisses me off how much smarter than me you are.  Angry Cheesy
grrr

when moon?

he isn´t. missing to see the context, the bigger picture is not smart.
772  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 14, 2017, 07:10:57 AM
Remember readers, if you hold Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash in equal proportions, you can sit back and watch the whales battle it out.  If you don't have inside information, you're at a significant disadvantage when trading.
I take that as a public confession of insider trading.
I hope you are aware of the fact that insider trading is illegal in practically any jurisdiction in the world?
If you are even somewhat representative of the Bitcoin Cash crowd, I shall from here on after call the Bitcoin Cashers crooks.


well said! will do the same. they are crooks.
773  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 13, 2017, 10:52:42 PM
Any thoughts on how high the next BCH rally will go?  I'm thinking we might hit 0.8 temporarily, and then crash.  I don't think we'll spike above 1.0 on the next wave.  At this stage, I think anything over 0.4 is a good place to take profits.

Your shilling is starting to get naive.

one must be desperate to publicly sink that low.
774  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 13, 2017, 08:45:49 PM
Why are you reacting so emotionally?  You have held bitcoin for a long time, and so you would have equal coins on both the Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash chains.  If Bitcoin evolves as peer-to-peer digital cash, with low fees and reliable confirmation, you win; if Bitcoin evolves as digital gold, with high fees and transaction friction, you win too.

I believe in the original vision for Bitcoin as described in the white paper: as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system.  I am working to help shape bitcoin to that vision and will continue to do so.

Could I be wrong?  Sure.  Maybe it actually is good to have $20 fees (soon to be $50) and a network that can only process 3 transactions per seconds (one thousand times less than Visa).  

And that is why I hold both BTC and BCH.  

i react emotionally because YOU play games with my live savings. why the fuck aren´t you creating just another altcoin to realize your great vision? why tamper with bitcoin? if you are not happy with it, leave it. well, you sort of did, but you try to steal as much juice of it as possible, trying to hurt bitcoin as much as possible.



now you expecting me to hug you for it? your game is called hijacking and it is evil.


From my perspective, it is Blockstream/Core that are tampering with Bitcoin, by refusing the allow a much-needed capacity increase to reduce fees and allow for continued growth, and then by fundamentally changing the structure of the BTC coin by adding segwit.  

Bitcoin Cash represents the original vision for Bitcoin as peer-to-peer electronic cash.  I will continue work to realize this vision, and help resist the hijack attempt by Blockstream and Core.


from the perspective of a wrong-way driver it really looks like all the others are wrong.

visions can and should compete. but playing foul/malicious games that will hurt peoples life savings is one big ego trip. where are your contributions towards bitcoin to address the problem you describe?  didn't´t get merged? why?  
775  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Der Aktuelle Kursverlauf on: November 13, 2017, 08:30:54 PM
wann war bcc hardfork? wollte noch gern was versenden, aber nicht drin fest stecken.
Komischerweise ist es ja sowieso so das heute FORK ist und keine einzige Börse stopt deposit und withdraw...
Wenn da mal nicht welche böse aufwachen

Bitcoin Cash ist zentralisiert, deswegen werden da Forks in einem kleinen Zirkel ausgeheckt und ansonsten gibt es kaum Diskussionen.  Jedenfalls solange sich Roger Ver und Jihan Wu nicht zerstreiten. Die Ansammlung von Personen mit großen Ego birgt da denke ich noch einige Sprengkraft für Bitcoin Cash in der Zukunft.
Calvin Ayre, John Mac Afee, Craig Wright, Brian Armstrong, Rick Falkvinge, Peter Rizun, Emin Gün Sirer, ...  und der kleine Typ von ViaBtc, der immer seine aktuellen Gedanken in den Coinbases verewigt.


gerade eben im wall-observer thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg24530364#msg24530364
776  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 13, 2017, 08:26:23 PM

so this is how you justify your malicious work? that people who keep your shitcoin will not get harmed? truth is that many that follow you will lose lots of funds.

disgusting.

Why are you reacting so emotionally?  You have held bitcoin for a long time, and so you would have equal coins on both the Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash chains.  If Bitcoin evolves as peer-to-peer digital cash, with low fees and reliable confirmation, you win; if Bitcoin evolves as digital gold, with high fees and transaction friction, you win too.

I believe in the original vision for Bitcoin as described in the white paper: as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system.  I am working to help shape bitcoin to that vision and will continue to do so.

Could I be wrong?  Sure.  Maybe it actually is good to have $20 fees (soon to be $50) and a network that can only process 3 transactions per seconds (one thousand times less than Visa).  

And that is why I hold both BTC and BCH.  

i react emotionally because YOU play games with my live savings. why the fuck aren´t you creating just another altcoin to realize your great vision? why tamper with bitcoin? if you are not happy with it, leave it. well, you sort of did, but you try to steal as much juice of it as possible, trying to hurt bitcoin as much as possible.

now you expecting me to hug you for it? your game is called hijacking and it is evil.
777  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 13, 2017, 08:17:52 PM
bcash folks not only spam the network. their EDA sucks away mining power from bitcoin. over the weekend bitcoin experienced a massive unprecedented 50% drop of hashrate. I am glad it is still working. their very own malicious EDA CREATES the btc transaction backlog (which they use as an argument versus: bitcoin. lol.)
even Bloomberg writes about this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/2017/11/13/how-bitcoin-cashs-higher-inflation-rate-is-harming-bitcoin/2/#2fa9abb9152b

bch as a whole is an attack on bitcoin. it sucks on bitcoin, it tries to mislead people. we should not tolerate this at all. I hope some smart bitcoin dev comes up with a solution that makes miners switching back and forth between bitcoin and bcash impossible.

fuck bcash. fuck it from deep of my heart. fuck its devs, fuck its miners, fuck its shills. fuck its CEOs. and finally: fuck its investors and buyers.

now they have their own "bitcoin" to play around they still want to attack bitcoin. ugly fuckers suck.




Two blockchains sharing the same proof-of-work results in very narrow stability margins for the combined system.  It is unlikely that both Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash will survive long-term, unless one switches to a different PoW.  


yes, because you designed it to be that way. it did not happen by accident, didn't it? thank you for attacking bitcoin. unreal that you have the guts to even post here.
778  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 13, 2017, 08:09:27 PM
Is he a developer? He was in here shilling for BCH at 0.45!
He's a BU developer / promoter, and a centralization shill that wants to push 1 GB blocks onto the network. I guess NSA and Google will be the ones running nodes in Peter R's version of Bitcoin. Roll Eyes

... yeah, calling himself a developer is a little generous. He's like the bizarro-world version of one of those guys who call themselves 'evangelists', except what is it called when you are shilling for Satan?... like Son-Of-Sam for BCH or something, his dark arts in pure charlatanry is pretty impressive.


Thanks for the compliment.  

By the way, have you analyzed the new difficulty adjustment algorithm for Bitcoin Cash (live today) and the effect it may have on the migration of hash power between Core and Cash?

Remember readers, if you hold Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash in equal proportions, you can sit back and watch the whales battle it out.  If you don't have inside information, you're at a significant disadvantage when trading.

Bitcoin has a very bright future, as we bring peer-to-peer electronic cash to all of the world's population.

so this is how you justify your malicious work? that people who keep your shitcoin will not get harmed? truth is that many that follow you will lose lots of funds.

disgusting.
779  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 13, 2017, 07:57:13 PM

so you want to say that 6$ fee for a 40$ transaction is normal ? i'm shocked..


Ok dude... don't even go there.

With everything that happened this weekend and the massive backlog created by Ver/Wu and their army of spammers, if you still wanna go there, then I'll just say go use BCH and GTFO troll.

just answer the question and don't try avoid this blaming me for trolling because i'm not , I don't give a shit about bch

If I was able to massively spam the BCH network right now and create such a backlog, they'd be seeing $6 transaction fees too.

Now pls fk off, I don't have time to waste rehashing the same tired arguments from 3 years ago with yet another troll.  If you want lower transaction fees, either wait for the backlog to clear and the mempool to empty. Otherwise look forward to LN. Or go use another crypto. Or whatever.

Another troll to my list /ignore



bcash folks not only spam the network. their EDA sucks away mining power from bitcoin. over the weekend bitcoin experienced a massive unprecedented 50% drop of hashrate. I am glad it is still working. their very own malicious EDA CREATES the btc transaction backlog (which they use as an argument versus: bitcoin. lol.)
even Bloomberg writes about this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/2017/11/13/how-bitcoin-cashs-higher-inflation-rate-is-harming-bitcoin/2/#2fa9abb9152b

bch as a whole is an attack on bitcoin. it sucks on bitcoin, it tries to mislead people. we should not tolerate this at all. I hope some smart bitcoin dev comes up with a solution that makes miners switching back and forth between bitcoin and bcash impossible.

fuck bcash. fuck it from deep of my heart. fuck its devs, fuck its miners, fuck its shills. fuck its CEOs. and finally: fuck its investors and buyers.

now they have their own "bitcoin" to play around they still want to attack bitcoin. ugly fuckers suck.
780  Economy / Speculation / Re: Nights Watch by Afrikoin on: November 13, 2017, 07:42:48 PM
^^hyena is a chicken. it is after all what is said about hyenas: they are not brave.

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