Bitcoin Forum
April 25, 2024, 12:06:10 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 ... 139 »
301  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 04, 2022, 06:25:43 AM
Russia recognized DNR and LNR as independent states, rest of the world did not, so all of accusations of stealing stem from that. Following that logic you might as well claim that they used "stolen" port and stole ships in Crimea for transport. Since Crimea is in a similar state of world recognition

That's absurd. The commodities being stolen don't belong to the state, be it Ukraine, DNR/LNR, or Russia. Does the "recognition" now imply forced nationalization of all private property?

BTW grain is being looted in Kherson region and other areas not part of DNR/LNR.

And of course the "liberators" try to steal money as well, because why not:

In Melitopol, during an inventory of the premises of banking institutions, hryvnias of various denominations spoiled by employees of Ukrainian banks were found, RIA Novosti correspondent reports.

... except the video shows what looks like IBNS theft protection dye. But that's not stealing because DNR/LNR amirite.

If they don't belong to the state, why is the state the one complaining? Shouldn't it be some company stating that it lost so many tons of grain?

The HIMARS are on the way. Don't worry, brothers. The first four are already in Europe, and they are meant for training purposes. Later, when our soldiers will learn to operate HIMARS, we'll be receiving dozens of them until the invaders will run off of our land. There's no two ways about it. It's important for the whole world to see that an attempt to change the government of another sovereign country by force fails.
The Javelins didn't help, the Bayraktars didn't help, the M777s didn't help, but multiple launch rocket systems will definitely help. A good plan, as reliable as a Swiss watch.
Actually they did help. Russians were pushed out and weren't able to take Kiev.
At this point the more Russians die in this war the better for Ukrainians and the numbers keep growing. If a weapon can add to that number it's always good to have it.

This is a good piece. Check it out if you haven't seen it yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZIspwem2s

I was amazed how young squad commanders are. This guy was a total newbie and apparently finished one of the best military schools in Russia.
His superior's vehicle was hit and he didn't know what to do, what date it is, how to proceed.
-shit they are shooting at us
-shoot them
-the gun is stuck
-let's run away and hide

Javelins and bayraktars are a waste of money here. These guys just want to get drunk and sleep in a warm bed.

It could be better for US but i fail to see how that's better for Ukraine? Every day hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers die and more land is lost, i don't see how that can be better for Ukraine? Minsk agreements (guaranteed by Germany and France) called for autonomy for LPR and DPR, now Russia controls that plus majority of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv and Odessa also seem to be on the Russian radar. Whatever happens, happens for the best only works for propaganda. Oh they took Kherson and Zaporizhzhia? Well we still won, and loosing thousands lives was worth it cause we saved Dnipr and Odessa. Oh they took Dnipr and Odessa, well see still worth it because we saved Kyiv. Oh they took Kyiv well we still won and sacrificing our army was worth it because we saved Poland? EU? cause surely they would've been next and we caused so many casualties to Russia  Huh

Western allies meeting regularly to game out potential framework for Ukraine ceasefire as war hits 100th day  
Quote
US officials have in recent weeks been meeting regularly with their British and European counterparts to discuss potential frameworks for a ceasefire and for ending the war through a negotiated settlement...Ukraine is not directly involved in those discussions, despite the US commitment to "nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine."
Even CNN sentiment and coverage appears to be changing, realpolitiks

Russia broke all Minsk agreements with Ukraine on Feb 24, 2022.

When dealing with Russia, the "guarantees on paper" are worth less than the paper they are written on.

The West needs to understand that this conflict needs to be resolved militarily not only in Ukraine.

As long as the Russian regime is not defeated, this aggression will continue in other countries.

Russian military needs to be defeated, Moscow needs to be captured, and all Russian nuclear weapons need to be disarmed and deactivated.

True statement, but did Ukraine abide by the Minsk agreements from 2014 until 2022?

This is a very scary proposition, to a point where i'm not even sure who's side you're on anymore. Saying that every Ukrainian should fight until Moscow is captured, is setting unattainable goals in which you needlessly doom a lot of Ukrainians to their death. Literally being set up for failure with almost religious undertones as if they're fighting for something greater than all of them, fighting for all of Europe/humanity/free world/galaxy/universe. If Ukrainians are so eager to lay their lives for someone else's war, how about setting them to fight China till the last Ukrainian while we're at it? I'm sure the free world would gladly donate as many weapons as Ukraine can handle. How is any of that is good for Ukrainians??
302  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 03, 2022, 10:09:02 PM
Russia recognized DNR and LNR as independent states, rest of the world did not, so all of accusations of stealing stem from that. Following that logic you might as well claim that they used "stolen" port and stole ships in Crimea for transport. Since Crimea is in a similar state of world recognition

That's absurd. The commodities being stolen don't belong to the state, be it Ukraine, DNR/LNR, or Russia. Does the "recognition" now imply forced nationalization of all private property?

BTW grain is being looted in Kherson region and other areas not part of DNR/LNR.

And of course the "liberators" try to steal money as well, because why not:

In Melitopol, during an inventory of the premises of banking institutions, hryvnias of various denominations spoiled by employees of Ukrainian banks were found, RIA Novosti correspondent reports.

... except the video shows what looks like IBNS theft protection dye. But that's not stealing because DNR/LNR amirite.

If they don't belong to the state, why is the state the one complaining? Shouldn't it be some company stating that it lost so many tons of grain?

The HIMARS are on the way. Don't worry, brothers. The first four are already in Europe, and they are meant for training purposes. Later, when our soldiers will learn to operate HIMARS, we'll be receiving dozens of them until the invaders will run off of our land. There's no two ways about it. It's important for the whole world to see that an attempt to change the government of another sovereign country by force fails.
The Javelins didn't help, the Bayraktars didn't help, the M777s didn't help, but multiple launch rocket systems will definitely help. A good plan, as reliable as a Swiss watch.
Actually they did help. Russians were pushed out and weren't able to take Kiev.
At this point the more Russians die in this war the better for Ukrainians and the numbers keep growing. If a weapon can add to that number it's always good to have it.

This is a good piece. Check it out if you haven't seen it yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZIspwem2s

I was amazed how young squad commanders are. This guy was a total newbie and apparently finished one of the best military schools in Russia.
His superior's vehicle was hit and he didn't know what to do, what date it is, how to proceed.
-shit they are shooting at us
-shoot them
-the gun is stuck
-let's run away and hide

Javelins and bayraktars are a waste of money here. These guys just want to get drunk and sleep in a warm bed.

It could be better for US but i fail to see how that's better for Ukraine? Every day hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers die and more land is lost, i don't see how that can be better for Ukraine? Minsk agreements (guaranteed by Germany and France) called for autonomy for LPR and DPR, now Russia controls that plus majority of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Mykolaiv and Odessa also seem to be on the Russian radar. Whatever happens, happens for the best only works for propaganda. Oh they took Kherson and Zaporizhzhia? Well we still won, and loosing thousands lives was worth it cause we saved Dnipr and Odessa. Oh they took Dnipr and Odessa, well see still worth it because we saved Kyiv. Oh they took Kyiv well we still won and sacrificing our army was worth it because we saved Poland? EU? cause surely they would've been next and we caused so many casualties to Russia  Huh

Western allies meeting regularly to game out potential framework for Ukraine ceasefire as war hits 100th day  
Quote
US officials have in recent weeks been meeting regularly with their British and European counterparts to discuss potential frameworks for a ceasefire and for ending the war through a negotiated settlement...Ukraine is not directly involved in those discussions, despite the US commitment to "nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine."
Even CNN sentiment and coverage appears to be changing, realpolitiks
303  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 03, 2022, 05:44:04 PM
Russia doesn't even control all of what is soon to be broken away as 'formerly part of Ukraine' so if they have an abundance of 'Ukrainian' grain, it is because someone in Kiev(-ish) Ukraine sold it to them from the central part of the pre-2022 country.  Since there is a general global hunger for rubles, that would make sense.

They control southern areas where a large part of Ukrainian grain production is. And there are many reports of Russians loading and transporting grain to Crimea, if you bothered to look outside of your bitchute safe space.

Yup.  That's how it works now.  The Donbas, Russia proper, and other countries in Central Asia produce a variety of things including steel.  Passing through the port of Mariupol as part of their journey to global markets does not necessarily imply that they are 'looted' (unless you are propagandized retard.)

Nonsense, global markets LOL, you just post random words now. The ship goes from Mariupol to "Russia proper". They're taking something that doesn't belong to them AKA stealing.


Russia recognized DNR and LNR as independent states, rest of the world did not, so all of accusations of stealing stem from that. Following that logic you might as well claim that they used "stolen" port and stole ships in Crimea for transport. Since Crimea is in a similar state of world recognition

Quote
Ukraine Accuses NATO's Turkey Over Stolen Grain Before Lavrov Visit
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-accuses-natos-turkey-over-stolen-grain-before-lavrov-visit/ar-AAY2niJ

Geopolitics was never fair, a lot of people thinking that someone else had their best interest will be disillusioned, people will be told how they should feel about things once men in power reach agreements behind closed doors. Always has, always will be
304  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 03, 2022, 03:34:45 AM
...
What do you suppose would really happen to Bitcoin globally, if the U.S. were to impose Chinese-style laws?  Or even a fraction of that?  For one thing, you can forget about rooting for $100k...  For one thing.

I myself will continue using Bitcoin no matter what—as long as there is anyone else using Bitcoin.  I have advanced technical expertise, and I am ideologically motivated to use Bitcoin regardless of its market value.  How many are like me?

Following the China mining ban, what proportion of the global hashrate moved to the U.S.?  How many of those miners would continue to operate under adverse regulation?  Under an outright ban?  In other plausible scenarios?

Bitcoin is resilient.  But a major part of its resilience is in its people, not in technology.  There are no technological solutions to some problems.  Complacency when the writing is on the wall is one of those problems.  I am doing my part right here, right now, to try to help solve that problem.
...

If US bans bitcoin China and Russia would probably embrace it. The enemy of my enemy... kind of a thing, that's the funny thing about the world that most seem to miss. As far as US, probably same thing would happened when US banned drugs, sure Wall st would leave, price would temporary collapse, but the heart beat will continue and pump out a new block every 10min. If there's a demand for something human laws seem to take a secondary role.

As far as hashrate, there are other countries besides China/US, i believe lots of miners moved to Kazakhstan. As long as there's a demand for BTC miners will seek out the lowest priced electricity on this planet, with tolerable laws or corrupt enough enforcement of those laws. If there's enough incentive consequence be damned, risk vs return.
305  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 02, 2022, 06:13:44 AM
...
Now to still try and make it work US need to continue to escalate the conflict (first Javelin will be a game changer, MANPADS, then Switchblades, then much needed M777 howitzers, now even more desperately needed HIMARS, next will be Huh) and as you previously noted everything comes at a cost. Where does that leave Russia, either sit back and do nothing or since US is setting a precedent that selling long range missiles is now acceptable practice and doesn't make you a party to a conflict, Russia can starts selling latest anti-air and anti-ship missiles to Iran, how much do you think it'd take for them to close the straight of Hormuz?
...

Turkey, Italy and Greece are connected to the Atlantic ocean through the mediterranean sea.

Quote
Well Taiwan is also connected to the Atlantic ocean through some body of water  Roll Eyes don't get tied up on semantics, you need to see the forest behind the trees. Surely if US would deem in beneficial, adding the + to NATO+ is the least of the problems.

...

Super-funny the comment of the Mediterranean being connected. I guess then Taiwan is connected as well both on the east and the west, north and south through different oceans so all fine.

Some legal opinions state that selling weapons to a party in conflict is a legitimate trade according to international law and does not make you a party in the conflict.  It does not remove your "non-belligerent" status no matter the precise weaponry, quantity or use - much more questionable to call that "neutrality". To be honest, I think that the RF would not want the US to be officially a belligerent party.

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/ukraine-neutrality-co-belligerency-use-of-force/

In general, Ukraine is seen as a country unlawfully invaded and defending its territory from an aggression. Most legal opinions would claim that selling weapons to Ukraine is helping restore international legality rather than taking part in a conflict.

My personal view is that selling material that will be used to defend the Ukrainian territory is legal and does not remove "non-belligerent" claims, as long as it is not used to strike in Russian territory - again IMHO even that would also bee acceptable if targeting troops or means used for the invasion. That is why US and UK have been very reluctant to send their versions of MLRS (the HIMARS) which have nothing to do with the RF MLRS - much longer range, technologically advanced munitions.

So, for now, even M777 that are used within Ukraine are perfectly acceptable IMHO. The switchblades, Javelin, etc.. are pretty much defensive weapons just to provide infantry with a fighting chance against armoured groups.

On Iran closing Ormuz, I do not see how that could be a defensive act. Attacking or blockading ships would be an act of war and it would justify a strong response.

Looks like MQ-1C Gray Eagle (upgraded predator drone) is the next "game changer" for Ukraine that's totally winning. And US military hackers conducting offensive operations in support of Ukraine, says head of Cyber Command

I'm not sure what ramifications would belligerent status bring to this, but pretty sure we're at the stage where neither Russia nor US would care about legalities much.

Iran has some disputed Islands in the straight of Hormuz and can claim 20km if internal waters around them, they threaten to close it every few years. Strait is only like 25km at it's narrowest, and Iran has a lot of land exposure around it Plus conveniently a third of the world's liquefied natural gas and almost 25% of total global oil consumption passes through the strait. If Iran gets its hands on some hyper sonic missiles, that can easily take out an aircraft carrier, that might be enough to change it's math to perhaps partial blocking of US military. China getting few hyper sonic missiles (which can take out an airfield) would instantly nullify billions in fighter jets and patriot missiles sold to Taiwan. Seeing how Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, and with it loosing around 20% of its land to Russia i'd guess thousands of javelins, NLAWs and MANPADS can easily find their way to battle grounds where US is involved. Bottom line there are a lot of painful points Russia can escalate at in retaliation, and of course run away escalations lead from cold wars to hot nuclear ones.

Russia indicated that Ukraine was a red line for it, and cornered they really have no better option but to escalate, EU clearly indicating that it doesn't care much for the conflict and just wants it to go away, so we're only left with US still pushing it. Regardless of what happens (short of nuke war) Russia knows that it'll be warm (with gas/oil) and fed (grain) this winter, such certainties don't exist for EU. Knowing that, i just don't see how any escalation can make Russia capitulate, admit a loss and return to long term ruined economy, political unrest, shortages in high tech sectors (and most likely full collapse). That's why I'm confused of US end goal with such semi (but not too far) escalations, surely the expectation can't be of Russia folding and willingly collapsing, guess that's why Kissinger said what he said.
306  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 01, 2022, 07:46:52 PM
...
 The beauty of that is that there is no way Russia can do anything about it they just cannot compete on the soft power field.
...
 Only options for Russia is sit back and keep loosing countries in its sphere of influence and ultimately be torn apart, or radicalize become a dictatorship and switch the playing field to hard power.
...

On regards to the RF becoming a dictatorship "in the future", I think that Moskva has sailed.

I think you have depicted the problem, but there is a solution. It is difficult for the RF to assume that its influence is in decline. It is not just the US, it is that all the world is moving ahead and the RF is not keeping the pace. Among other things, if you have the GDP of Italy and spend 11% of it in military you need to take it from schools, doctor, civil research, ... It is a problem of mindset.

This is some free consultancy for the RF:

Your objective is competing in a world that  if itis growing fast. If you are left behind your people and the nation as such will not do well, no matter how many wars you fight.

- Develop the east. The territory is immense, the opportunities endless, you do not need to look further. I understand that as of now, there are political reasons why Moscow / St Petersburg would rather not do that, but long term it causes tensions.
- Attract investment, both local and foreign. You cannot do without it. See next point on how to enable that, but, as a hint, you should be seen as a pacific partner and stable on that regards.
- Put in place the enablers of growth: Rule of law, fair and speedy justice. This implies you need to get rid of the Cleptocrats and local despots, no way around that.
- Keep your strengths: good universities, good research, ability to manage complex projects, ...
- Use wisely the money that is coming from exporting natural resources. Try to build up the chain of value (e.g. do not export crude oil, but refined products).
- Do not enter into unnecessary wars. Your territory is quite protected and other than that your real threat is terrorism (the real one, not the guys with the "tatoos").
- Do not spend 11% of your GDP in weapons - it is not needed.

Life could be very different in the RF.
 
Why would US let RF prosper, especially considering it's proximity to China? You know what powerful nations want right? That combination is too dangerous and needs to be stopped at its infancy. Much easier to kneecap RF, take Ukraine out of it's sphere of influence and then it'd be great if that could sustain itself by forcing RF to continue to sell its resources to EU through Ukraine (so UA gets paid transit fees). That's the benefit of having a pact, on top of that you can freeze RF assets and bankrupt it anytime you wish. (That is unless they decide to stop playing such game for some reason)

Well, under that premise, you could argue that this war is actually helping US do so.

The US is not the only country in the world and, as far as I know, has until now only frozen assets when faced with very serious hostility. Freezing assets is not for free - the US is also getting a reputation hit on this.

It might initially seem so. Undercutting Russia in a proxy war without loosing a single American while making Europe totally depended on you, surely looks like a win/win. But there are no guarantees, the best think tanks can analyze the latest data live with best AI and machine learning but all they can propose is their estimated probabilities. Problem with that is if you're wrong you've actively pushed Russia and China together. The road to hell is paved with good intentions (This is well demonstrated by US sponsoring Osama bin Laden, and taking out Saddam Hussein only to create vacuum for ISIS to grow).

Russia drawing red lines over Ukraine/Belarus/Kazakhstan (Russian speaking countries) seems logical, on the other hand US getting billions from Saudi Arabia by selling them weapons and enabling war in Yemen, only to escalate conflict in Ukraine because US suddenly cares about freedom of Ukrainians seems insincere at best. Russia indicated that Ukraine was an existential threat to it and Putin’s Domestic Approval Rating Reaches Highest Level In Five Years seems to indicate that people support that idea. US picking Ukraine as a hill to die on just seems more personal than a logical decision, and trying to sell it as if Ukraine protecting all of Europe is just silly with Article 5 and most of Europe being in NATO.

Now to still try and make it work US need to continue to escalate the conflict (first Javelin will be a game changer, MANPADS, then Switchblades, then much needed M777 howitzers, now even more desperately needed HIMARS, next will be Huh) and as you previously noted everything comes at a cost. Where does that leave Russia, either sit back and do nothing or since US is setting a precedent that selling long range missiles is now acceptable practice and doesn't make you a party to a conflict, Russia can starts selling latest anti-air and anti-ship missiles to Iran, how much do you think it'd take for them to close the straight of Hormuz? I'm sure Panam/Egypt can use cheap oil and some good anti-ship weapons and would like to get back control over Suez and Panama canals. Or how about a huge multi billion contract to supply hypersonic weapons to China? Will the world be better off with that? Probably not, will it help if media can easily blame the big Russian bear for it? Unlikely. They keep pushing the line and the whole world is forced to be a spectator in this new race to annihilation over Ukraine/Belarus/Chechnya/whatever...


Easiest way to start another war, just offer Taiwan to join NATO sit back and watch the "fireworks" fly. (Don't those poor Taiwanese deserve the freedom cookies and guarantees of freedom??)
Do you know what NATO stands for? North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Now, where is Taiwan located? Answer me.
...

What is the support in Taiwan for joining continental China's government? Answer me.

Where is Turkey, a NATO member located? An Italy, and Greece, ...?
https://ontheworldmap.com/oceans-and-seas/atlantic-ocean/north-atlantic-ocean-map.jpg

Turkey, Italy and Greece are connected to the Atlantic ocean through the mediterranean sea.

Well Taiwan is also connected to the Atlantic ocean through some body of water  Roll Eyes don't get tied up on semantics, you need to see the forest behind the trees. Surely if US would deem in beneficial, adding the + to NATO+ is the least of the problems.


Countries that support Russia (Africa, Middle East, South America and some asian countries) have a low quality of life, have a low level of education which means their society is less educated, have a low-quality healthcare system, have a high level of corruption, have a high level of nepotism, have a high level of crime.
Soviet Union closed borders to its countries to make them live in swampland, to not let them see a high quality of life that was outside the USSR, once the borders were open, people started to travel and started to experience new life, they analyzed the difference in the quality of life between the USSR and West. Do you know where emigrants from post-soviet countries go to work? In western countries, they send money from western countries to their countries, they have increased their wealth, built new houses and increased their quality of life. That's why they are afraid of Russia, they don't want to go back, instead, they want to join the western family.

Have you considered why it is so? Why Venezuela, Lybia, Iran and Saudi Arabia are where they are? Or where those billions in aid and investments to needing countries around Russia come from? How Ukraine having higher corruption and lower GDP than Russia managed to totally revamp it's military in just 8yrs? Must be that ghost of Kyiv, or the soft power directing targeted fund exactly where they're needed.
307  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 01, 2022, 09:04:26 AM
...
 The beauty of that is that there is no way Russia can do anything about it they just cannot compete on the soft power field.
...
 Only options for Russia is sit back and keep loosing countries in its sphere of influence and ultimately be torn apart, or radicalize become a dictatorship and switch the playing field to hard power.
...

On regards to the RF becoming a dictatorship "in the future", I think that Moskva has sailed.

I think you have depicted the problem, but there is a solution. It is difficult for the RF to assume that its influence is in decline. It is not just the US, it is that all the world is moving ahead and the RF is not keeping the pace. Among other things, if you have the GDP of Italy and spend 11% of it in military you need to take it from schools, doctor, civil research, ... It is a problem of mindset.

This is some free consultancy for the RF:

Your objective is competing in a world that is growing fast. If you are left behind your people and the nation as such will not do well, no matter how many wars you fight.

- Develop the east. The territory is immense, the opportunities endless, you do not need to look further. I understand that as of now, there are political reasons why Moscow / St Petersburg would rather not do that, but long term it causes tensions.
- Attract investment, both local and foreign. You cannot do without it. See next point on how to enable that, but, as a hint, you should be seen as a pacific partner and stable on that regards.
- Put in place the enablers of growth: Rule of law, fair and speedy justice. This implies you need to get rid of the Cleptocrats and local despots, no way around that.
- Keep your strengths: good universities, good research, ability to manage complex projects, ...
- Use wisely the money that is coming from exporting natural resources. Try to build up the chain of value (e.g. do not export crude oil, but refined products).
- Do not enter into unnecessary wars. Your territory is quite protected and other than that your real threat is terrorism (the real one, not the guys with the "tatoos").
- Do not spend 11% of your GDP in weapons - it is not needed.

Life could be very different in the RF.
 
Why would US let RF prosper, especially considering it's proximity to China? You know what powerful nations want right? That combination is too dangerous and needs to be stopped at its infancy. Much easier to kneecap RF, take Ukraine out of it's sphere of influence and then it'd be great if that could sustain itself by forcing RF to continue to sell its resources to EU through Ukraine (so UA gets paid transit fees). That's the benefit of having a pact, on top of that you can freeze RF assets and bankrupt it anytime you wish. (That is unless they decide to stop playing such game for some reason)
308  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 01, 2022, 08:49:31 AM
Heck Yeah, A few months ago, they banned Bitcoin trading, Mining, etc.

Now, Bitcoin is open for international payments in Russia.

Yes, It's happening. It's turning Orange BTC



Source: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/russian-central-bank-open-to-bitcoin-and-crypto-international-payments

#Hodl #Bitcoin-is-Freedom

Hope it doesn't trigger guilt by association reflex
309  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 01, 2022, 05:22:37 AM
Next up - denazification. Did you all really believe that's what Putin meant? Pffft...

I see that this voluminous and categorically important topic has been raised again.
After all, the argument about the denazification of Ukraine is one of the main factors in the support of the Russian population, which increased even more after the publication of videos showing Ukrainian soldiers installing military equipment in residential areas, and Russian war prisoners being tortured.
This support for Putin was confirmed even by the Russian opposition.



Against the backdrop of current events, the rhetoric of some experts has intensified that Hitler's Nazism is only about anti-Semitism, and that the presence of Vladimir Zelensky, who is a Jew, in the presidential post in Ukraine, shatters Putin's argument about denazification.
However, if we turn to the origins, then according to the book of Adolf Hitler, his goals concerned not only the Jews. Hitler was going to take over the living space in the East and considered the Slavic peoples to be an inferior race. During the Second World War, millions of Soviet citizens were exterminated in the death camps, mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians. Consequently, Hitler's Nazism manifested itself not only in relation to the Jews, but also to the Slavs. Moreover, the authors of modern Ukrainian textbooks call Ukrainians one of the oldest agricultural civilizations and allegedly are "Slavicized Germans". At the same time, the Russians are supposedly not Slavs, and are of Finno-Ugric origin.
By the way, residents of Ukraine in social networks and on forums often call Russia - "Mordor", and Russians - "orcs". Judging by this logic, Ukrainians apparently consider themselves like elves or what?

Now we need to answer the question, was Putin's statement alone enough for Russian citizens to believe about the struggle of the Russian army against Nazism in Ukraine? Did ordinary Russian people have reason to believe that the modern Kyiv regime condones the spread of Nazi ideology, or, to be more precise, its offshoot in the form of Russophobia? Undoubtedly, there were such facts, and this was actively promoted by the ruling Ukrainian elite, which, in a decade and a half, was able to kindle the fire of Russophobia, unprecedented since the time of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (1942-1956).

1. In 2017, NBC News released a video about Ukrainian children's military camps, where kids were taught military training and Russophobic chants like "Death to the Muscovites!" and "Beat the Muscovites! Pile up the dead!"
2. There were other Russophobic chants from schoolchildren and young men, such as "Muscovite on a branch!" and "Muscovites on the knives!"
3. The torchlight processions in honor of the Nazi Stepan Bandera.
4. The names of the streets in honor of the SS division Galicia.
5. The neo-Nazi Azov battalion in the National Guard of Ukraine.
6. The positive attitude of President Zelensky and a large number of Ukrainians towards Stepan Bandera.
7. After 2014, the use of the Russian language In Ukraine was methodically limited at the legislative level. In May 2022, people who spoke Russian began to be beaten on the streets in Western Ukraine.

Before 2022, various Russophobic actions were widespread in Ukraine, under the guise of allegedly "trolling in the direction of the Kremlin propaganda".
Examples of such frenzied Russophobia in Ukraine, which they call "jokes". Links are given only to Ukrainian sources.
- Compote "Blood of Russian babies"
- Cake in the form of a baby, lying on the Russian tricolor
- "Colorado beetles in Odessa style, baked" (note: in 2014, 42 people who protested against the Maidan were burned alive in Odessa)
- "Separ in sour cream in the sauce of Russian-speaking babies" (the date on the banks 06.10.1942 apparently refers to an agreement on supplies from the USA to the USSR during World War II).
- "The last shelter of a separatist with the aroma of the Donetsk morgue". This is about predominantly Russian-speaking Donetsk, whose citizens the Kiev government has been bombing since 2014 and is still bombing. Ukraine from April 2014 to February 2022 is conducting a so-called anti-terrorist operation against residents of eastern Ukraine who protested against the illegal overthrow of the president and wanted to receive a special legal status within the country.



To those who say that this is just trolling and never Nazism - if you replaced the word "Russian" with "Jewish" or "African" in the name of these products, then the world society would instantly harshly criticize such "jokers". This is the most natural Nazism, no matter what words they try to cover it up with. And the fact that in Ukraine no one has been sued for this shows proving that these actions were encouraged at the highest levels. In fact, this is not trolling at all, but years of incited hatred broadcast in Ukraine against Russian-speaking people. It looks like a well-planned action to pit two neighboring peoples on ethnic and linguistic grounds. The purpose of these events is to introduce into the minds of Ukrainians literally a *cannibalistic rhetoric* that Russian and pro-Russian minded people are subhuman, whose deaths mean nothing. The consequences of such a policy can be seen in the way Ukrainian nationalists torturing Russian war prisoners and terrorized civilians in the eastern regions of Ukraine.

If someone sincerely believes that the incitement of an ethnic conflict in Ukraine against Russia is natural and only Russia is to blame for this, then these people most likely forgot that during the Cold War, the US Central Intelligence Agency didn't hesitate to cooperate with Ukrainian Nazis for subversive activities against the USSR. In 2014-2021, the Western media saw Ukrainian nationalists as a serious threat (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), but then this topic has been carefully muffled and it was called as Kremlin propaganda. And it looks very much like the current US government is following a 70-year-old pattern, taking advantage of nationalist groups in Ukraine.

- Cold War Allies: The origin of CIA's Relationship with Ukrainian Nationalists
- Background: The West collaborated with the Nazis to carry out the coup in Ukraine in 2014
- CIA‘s Use of Nazi Strategy on Ukrainian Right-Wing Nationalists Unabated since Cold War



Very well put together. Didn't know on top of Bandera they had streets named after SS division Galicia. Anyone aware of any other country in the world having streets named after Nazi SS divisions?
310  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: June 01, 2022, 04:20:44 AM
It is difficult to object to a well-reasoned accusation, I understand.

I wouldn't know since I have yet to see "a well-reasoned accusation" that would justify a genocide. I have serious doubts that such a thing could possibly exist but I'm sure you guys will try hard to reach new lows.
Do not dramatize, you do not have enough good reason to accuse Russia of genocide in Ukraine. Rather, Ukraine can be accused of genocide of the Russian-speaking and pro-Russian population for regular shelling of civilians with artillery. And your personal support for Ukraine reeks of justifying Nazism.
Who started the war? Russians, without a question. Why? Because Ukraine wants to join NATO and you are afraid of NATO, is this right or do you really believe in the military operation motives that Putin said days before the war?

You have to seriously ask yourself some questions. Why is it always Russia that has problems with bordered countries? Georgia - 2008, Crimea - 2014, Ukraine - 2022.
Why do Polish dislike Russians more than Germans? I know three languages, German, English and Russian. I had no problem in Poland when I was asking someone a question in German and English but when they were hearing Russian (I have a great Russian accent, I have lived in Moscow too), sometimes they were ignoring me or weren't bothering.
Do you know why? Because Germany changed and Russia didn't. Germans don't worship Hitler but Russians worship Stalin. Germans dislike what Hitler did but Russians like what Stalin did and some people even pray for him. Russia hasn't changed a single, it still has imperialistic goals.

Ask yourself, why post-soviet 1. Joined 2. Are joining and 3. Want to join NATO but don't want to return back to the USSR?
Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Slovakia. Have you heard about these countries or do you know from your history that some of them were part of the Soviet Union and some of them were satellite nations of the Soviet Union?

You guys better ask yourself why Putin and other guys are rich, have multi-billion dollars, palaces and you have a low quality of life outside the Moscow and Saints Peterburg, dream to get higher education abroad.
Visit Norway and see how Norway spends its income on its citizens. Then ask yourself, why Putin doesn't do the same.

Easiest way to start another war, just offer Taiwan to join NATO sit back and watch the "fireworks" fly. (Don't those poor Taiwanese deserve the freedom cookies and guarantees of freedom??)

You seem to be genuinely curious, and at first sight appear to have good points. But keep going with your line of thinking, now ask yourself why the closer the country is to Russia the more it likes US/NATO and dislikes Russia (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Georgia), yet the further it is from Russia (Africa, Middle East, South America, Asia) the less they like US and the more they like Russia? That's the beauty of soft power, you can exploit other countries and direct resources to targeted countries to win over their "hearts and minds". The beauty of that is that there is no way Russia can do anything about it they just cannot compete on the soft power field. If winning "hearts and minds" of Ukrainians worked, US could then start another revolution in Egypt or just finish the ones in Venezuela/Turkey/Iran etc... and then direct those resources on winning "hearts and minds" of Belarusians or Kazakhs... Only options for Russia is sit back and keep loosing countries in its sphere of influence and ultimately be torn apart, or radicalize become a dictatorship and switch the playing field to hard power. It was a matter of time, Russia lost all of western Europe like that but Ukraine/Belarus/Kazakhstan was the red line for it, which US gladly crossed, and now here we are. Had it not been for Ukraine it would've been Belarus, and after some media work, people would gladly sacrifice their economies for the freedom to those poor Belarusians.
311  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 27, 2022, 05:45:44 PM
I mean sure Hitler is responsible for all the killings, but he did it in the name of his nation and aryan race, so how about making him a hero too (just need to stress that it's not for the genocide part but for caring about his nation).

You have an unhealthy obsession with Hitler.

Here is what Ukrainians were up against besides Hitler:

The Holodomor [...] as a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians.

[...]

While scholars universally agree that the cause of the famine was man-made, whether or not the Holodomor constitutes a genocide remains in dispute. Some historians conclude that the famine was planned and exacerbated by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement.

The Vinnytsia massacre was the mass execution of between 9,000 and 11,000 people in the Ukrainian town of Vinnytsia by the Soviet secret police NKVD during the Great Purge or Yezhovshchina in 1937–1938

The Bykivnia graves [...] was one of the unmarked mass grave sites where the NKVD, the Soviet secret police, disposed of thousands of executed "enemies of the Soviet state".

The number of dead bodies buried there is estimated between "dozens of thousand," to 30,000, to 100,000 though some estimates place the number as high as 200,000.

From the early 1920s until late 1940s throughout the Stalinist purges, the Soviet government hauled the bodies of tortured and killed political prisoners to the pine forests outside the village of Bykivnia and buried them in a grave that spanned 15,000 square metres (160,000 sq ft). So far, 210 separate mass graves have been identified by Polish and Ukrainian archaeologists working at the site.

The NKVD prisoner massacres were a series of mass executions of political prisoners carried out by the NKVD, the People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs of the Soviet Union, across Eastern Europe, primarily Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic states, and Bessarabia. After the start of the German invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, the NKVD troops were supposed to evacuate political prisoners into the interior of the Soviet Union, but the hasty retreat of the Red Army, the lack of transportation and other supplies and the general disregard for legal procedures often meant that the prisoners were executed.

Estimates of the death toll vary between locations; nearly 9,000 in the Ukrainian SSR, 20,000–30,000 in eastern Poland (now part of Western Ukraine), with the total number reaching approximately 100,000 victims of extrajudicial executions in the span of a few weeks.

Sounds eerily familiar these days.

Fun fact: Russia's glorious forever-president is a former officer of the KGB (the agency was known as NKVD at the time when the above atrocities were committed). But that's probably just a coincidence, nothing to do with him being a genocidal psychopath like the decades-worth of other NKVD/KGB agents.

might want to dial down your propaganda, you seem to have it set at 11

Gotta love Putin's copypasta boys accusing others of "propaganda".

I wrote up how Ukrainians are well aware of the atrocities of their so called "heroes" and how despite knowing all that they still stand by them and want to commemorate them on coins/stamps/monuments/streets (but you know only for the good parts that they did not the murdering of innocent children part) and your best reply is, but what about Stalin in 1933? Even if your Stalin's claim were true, how on green earth do you feel that this in any way justifies worshiping open nazi collaborators who murdered innocent people in the name of ethnic cleansing in 2022?
312  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 27, 2022, 02:20:24 AM
Come up with something new, asshole.



Here,how about this one? More nazi collaborators listed for "hero" status. If you proudly and shamelessly embrace their legacy without any care about what they did to Jews and other ethnic minorities then that makes you a NAZI sympathiser by default. Are you a NAZI sympathiser light_warrior ? I myself am Jewish and want my tax money and donations spent to help peaceful refugees and provide medical assistance but not to aid and abet anyone who makes light of the fact these "heroes" slaughtered our people and many others. Also stop using the typical russian sympathiser slur against anyone who dares question your "heroes" war criminal past crimes as it only makes you look like a thug and we already know there are plenty of thugs on BOTH sides of this conflict. Thugs never apologise or show remorse for what they do or have done. Thugs have no place in a civilised world.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/08/04/controversy-as-ukraine-mulls-giving-hero-status-to-alleged-war-criminals


WTF did i just read? Ukraine literally proposes to call heroes and make stamps and coins for people who they openly agree had committed atrocities? That's some new level of tolerance
Quote
Seventy-eight Ukrainian lawmakers from all sides of the parliament have proposed to give the title ‘Hero of Ukraine’ to controversial figures such as Stepan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych.
...
The proposal also asks the Ukrainian Parliament and the country’s president Volodymyr Zelenskyy to commemorate the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, UPA, operating from the 1940s and into the 1950s, on their 80th anniversary in October next year.
...
he is not arguing against the atrocities committed by members of the UPA towards Jews and Poles. However, he argues that Bandera should be remembered for his fight for independence.

“They are controversial; I agree with that,” Yurash says, “(But) they said that we don’t want to be a puppet or an instrument. We want to be an independent state. The story here should be remembered, but we should also not forget all the problems. However, their goal was very clear - an independent Ukraine. And it is worthy of giving stamps and coins for.”

Yurash says that it should be made clear that Bandera and the UPA aren’t receiving the honour due to the atrocities committed but for their role in the Ukrainian fight for independence.
...
“I do not disagree that we should remember, examine and acceptably apologise for horrible deeds done, but so did the other side.
...
“He is one of the people who defended Ukraine’s freedom,” Zelenskyy said in 2019.

“He is a hero for a certain percentage of Ukrainians, and it’s normal, and it’s cool.”

So the controversy doesn't stem from whether they're nazi collaborators who massacred 100.000 innocent people including women and children, oh no everyone acknowledges and is totally cool with that, the controversy is whether fighting for Ukraine is not just enough to offset all the committed atrocities but enough to even make them heroes Huh
I could possibly see how someone who might believe that they innocent, could think of them as heroes, but acknowledging the atrocities and still make them heroes is just monstrous. I mean sure Hitler is responsible for all the killings, but he did it in the name of his nation and aryan race, so how about making him a hero too (just need to stress that it's not for the genocide part but for caring about his nation).

It's like this US Customs and Border Protection bulletin
Quote
“Ukrainian nationalist groups including the Azo[v] Movement are actively recruiting racially or ethnically motivated violent extremist-white supremacists (RMVE-WS) to join various neo-Nazi volunteer battalions in the war against Russia,” the report said.

Quote
In a recent Washington Post interview, the head of the battalion, Andriy Biletskiy, said the group “completely” rejects Nazism. The Post noted that he has been quoted previously making white supremacist statements, and now denies having made those comments. The article quoted Bellingcat’s Michael Colborne, who has written a book on the battalion, saying that “there are clearly neo-Nazis” within the Azov movement’s ranks.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/24/american-fighters-ukraine-white-supremacists-00034860

US is concerned about those neo-nazis coming back with war experience, but the best part is the counter argument, it's not that they're denying it, as much as everyone should just stop talking about this because it helps Putin!


Edit:
To those supporting the war, to those who have friends joining the army, to their families and relatives: Make an informed decision when you sign in:

https://youtu.be/5OQbIEKbZyc

The war is senseless, the leadership cares little for the foot soldier and Russia is not at risk. Joining the Russian army is not easy money nor a way of life, it is a way of death.

I don't know how many people you believe read the English Politics section of the bitcoin forum before heading out to fight in Ukraine, but you might want to dial down your propaganda, you seem to have it set at 11
313  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 26, 2022, 05:04:15 AM

 
Offer Taiwan to join NATO, or start sending weapons to them (you know for defense of course), sit back and watch the fireworks, make sure to prepare "but China invaded Taiwan, Taiwan didn't invade China" statements. Start a war and get the freedom spreader support, two birds with one stone!

Edit: Mind you i'm not a fan of repressive China by any stretch of imagination, but at what point people will start seeing that such approaches should in no way be supported (even if they're sold to the public as being done for all of the right reasons)!

The US has been sending weapons to Taiwan for almost 50 years.

Some highlights from the past couple years:

40 155mm M109A6 Paladin Medium Self-Propelled Howitzer System and related equipment. ($750 million)

100 Harpoon Coastal Defense Systems (HCDS) consisting of up to four hundred 400 RGM-84L-4 Harpoon Block II Surface Launched Missiles; and four 4 RTM-84L-4 Harpoon Block II Exercise Missiles. Also included are four hundred and eleven 411 containers, 100 Harpoon Coastal Defense System Launcher Transporter Units, 25 radar trucks, spare and repair parts, support and test equipment. ($2.3 billion)

135 AGM-84H standoff land attack missile expanded response (SLAM-ER) missiles, 4 ATM-84H SLAM-ER telemetry missiles, and 12 CATM-84H captive air training missiles (CATM), including 151 containers, spare parts, support and test equipment, operator manuals, technical documentation, training. ($1 billion)

108 M1A2T main battle tanks, 14 M88 recovery vehicles, 16 M1070A1 transporters, 16 M1000 trailers, ammunition. ($2 billion)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_arms_sales_to_Taiwan
Interesting, all that while officially agreeing in spirit that Taiwan was part of China. I was not aware of the scale! Things seem to be primed there, just needs a spark.

Offer Taiwan to join NATO, or start sending weapons to them (you know for defense of course), sit back and watch the fireworks, make sure to prepare "but China invaded Taiwan, Taiwan didn't invade China" statements. Start a war and get the freedom spreader support, two birds with one stone!

Edit: Mind you i'm not a fan of repressive China by any stretch of imagination, but at what point people will start seeing that such approaches should in no way be supported (even if they're sold to the public as being done for all of the right reasons)!

I can tell how much you're concerned about Taiwan by all the threads you've started on the topic, and even that is not enough since you need to derail this one.

Meanwhile in the real world, Russian nazis have outdone themselves again. Well, they did it a month ago, I just came across it now:

The Russian Ministry of Defense has shared footage of recently killed Ukrainian troops.

The footage shows one body moved around and filmed from multiple angles in multiple positions, to inflate the perceived number of killed Ukrainian soldiers for propaganda purposes.

Your propaganda is getting tiresome, I'll let others to engage that or counter with Russian propaganda, you guys seem to enjoy slinging that at each other.

I just also realized that there were Normandy format meeting in Berlin on February 11, 2022.  Seems like Russia was told to pretty much fuck off back then. Putin recognized the separatist republics 10 days later on 21st Feb. Guess the players were seated and the cards were dealt back then, only thing left was to play out each of their hands
314  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 26, 2022, 03:46:17 AM
Or one can claim that there was no problem in Europe, and how France, Germany and all of EU were growing and all cool with Ukraine and Russia and the status quo before US decided to issue their freedom coup cookies in 2014. Then you yell but what about freedoms (of course exclusively for non US aligned governments), and we're back to the logic of how "freedom" can conveniently be used as justification for US to start any war it wishes. I mean US gets to undercut competition from EU, EU becomes fully reliant on US, Military-industrial complex is happy, with a possibility of collapsing Russia, it's a win/win/win/win. If that doesn't work or Russia just ends up winning too fast, rinse and repeat send freedom cookies (with weapons) to Moldova/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Georgia/Taiwan (you know cause Americans just care so much about spreading freedoms to those countries)

One can claim any stupid shit, but Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine did not invade Russia. Same in 2022. No amount of strawmanning/whataboutism can justify feeding parts of sovereign countries to the fascist Moscow regime just because Putin is stuck in his imperial delusions.

You forgot to mention China's nuclear weapons in Mexico, you're slipping.

Offer Taiwan to join NATO, or start sending weapons to them (you know for defense of course), sit back and watch the fireworks, make sure to prepare "but China invaded Taiwan, Taiwan didn't invade China" statements. Start a war and get the freedom spreader support, two birds with one stone!

Edit: Mind you i'm not a fan of repressive China by any stretch of imagination, but at what point people will start seeing that such approaches should in no way be supported (even if they're sold to the public as being done for all of the right reasons)!
315  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 26, 2022, 03:05:57 AM
blah, blah, RT news, blah, blah...

to af_newbie

BTW, can you list the mass killings of civilians committed by Ukrainians since 1991? Who is the Nazi now? LOL.
Odessa 2014, Mariupol 2014, Donbass 2014-2021

Oh, sweety, those were instigated by FSB and the Russian military.

There was no problem in Ukraine until Russia started its terrorist operations.

Russia is a terrorist state.

You are lost and definitely on the wrong side of history.

Or one can claim that there was no problem in Europe, and how France, Germany and all of EU were growing and all cool with Ukraine and Russia and the status quo before US decided to issue their freedom coup cookies in 2014. Then you yell but what about freedoms (of course exclusively for non US aligned governments), and we're back to the logic of how "freedom" can conveniently be used as justification for US to start any war it wishes. I mean US gets to undercut competition from EU, EU becomes fully reliant on US, Military-industrial complex is happy, with a possibility of collapsing Russia, it's a win/win/win/win. If that doesn't work or Russia just ends up winning too fast, rinse and repeat send freedom cookies (with weapons) to Moldova/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Georgia/Taiwan (you know cause Americans just care so much about spreading freedoms to those countries)
316  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 25, 2022, 11:43:29 PM
Enter this link, scroll down and marvel yourself with the collection argentinian bill notes.
https://www.infobae.com/economia/2022/05/25/un-mar-de-papel-los-49-billetes-argentinos-de-distinto-diseno-que-se-imprimieron-desde-la-vuelta-de-la-democracia/

I lived using them all. They had wiped more than 11 zeroes to the denomination since i was born.

Currently our bigger bill note is '1000 pesos', and equals to 5 usd.. yes, just a McDonald meal.


Long life Bitcoin.

The EU is probably keeping 500 euro notes as legal tender because they know it's going to cost that for a McDonald's meal in the future.

This made me look up $100 bill, it was issued in 1862 and according to officialdata.org current $100 would have a buying power of just around $3,50 back in 1862, Following that logic a penny in 1862 is worth over a quarter ($0,29) now. Not adjusting new denominations for inflation is a great way to kill off fiat bills.

Edit: And it actually costs 2.41¢ US ($0.0241 US Dollars (USD) to be exact) to make each penny
317  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 25, 2022, 06:53:17 AM
Quote
The Biden administration will ban Russia’s government from paying bondholders through American banks starting Wednesday morning, the Treasury Department said.
...
“OFAC can force Russia into default at any time. OFAC is still in the driving seat,” Ash said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/24/us-bars-russia-from-paying-bondholders-through-american-banks-increasing-default-risk.html


You default because we won't accept your money approach. Not sure if it's possible to make a bigger mockery of the "global reserve currency".

318  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 25, 2022, 02:26:49 AM
However, if you tell me that it was all a conspiracy, then this is a road that you have to travel by yourself.
My rule is to not expect a conspiracy when it could be explained by rushing 'something' and/or incompetency.

Some of us have lived long enough lives to know that the world going from one crisis (Covid, world shutdown, mass layoffs), to another crisis (Money printer go brrr, massive inflation), to another crisis (Ukraine War), to another crisis (supply chain constraints, oil shortage, food shortage, etc.) to another crisis (Monkeypox, or whatthefuckeverisnext), in just a span of a few years is NOT normal. Like at all. The odds of such a pattern happening organically in such a short span of time are ridiculously low, low enough to know that they would have to be completely manufactured, planned events.

That is the conspiracy part. Rolling from one catastrophe to another and then another is not normal.

Those that believe otherwise just haven't lived long enough to know better.

Welp, let's just throw another crisis onto the pile (Texas school shooting). During an election year no less.

Gee, what are the odds.  Roll Eyes

Funny, had a friend tell me the same thing in 2011. We had fires in California, then that quake, which caused a tsunami, which caused a nuclear disaster. Think there was a plane crash and something else happening, friend was arguing how there was no way it could all be a coincidence
319  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 24, 2022, 06:07:30 AM
It scares me that you reached your pinnacle of cringe right on this topic. Person who yells WHATABOUTISM when i even slightly hint at a comparison (not a main rebuttal), blatantly doesn't answer a single direct question and just start discussing other people  Huh surely the irony cannot be lost here

[...]

Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue.

No, it's still you bringing in unrelated shit into this thread.

You brought up Bandera as one of the reasons Ukraine needs denazification (correct me if I'm wrong). I responded as to why that's absurd. If you can't make a coherent argument that's not really my fault.

The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths...the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm

[...]

Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street? Roll Eyes this is beyond atrocious!

Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them?

But still Bandera streets in Ukraine - bad, Ukraine needs denazifying.

Stalin streets in Russia - nah, I just don't condone it.

Sometimes I feel like your reading comprehension is on a 6th grade level. Let's try once again, I brought up Bandera because I came across CIA's operation Red Sox where in 1949 CIA also tried to back Ukrainian independence by sponsoring Bandera, and CIA operations chief flat out admits that they were sponsoring a group directly linked to Nazi atrocities, even worse they did the Nazi's 'dirty work' (Bandera). Everyone seem to agree that this guy massacred/tortured/rapped lots of people, yet Ukrainians felt that he was the most deserving from all Ukrainians to name a street in his honor in the capital of Kyiv in 2016. Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you?

Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi.  He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration
camp.

He was assassinated by the Russians.

You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn?
Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?

Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.

Who killed innocent people across Europe? Easy, your hero Bandera. Here are some highlights:

Quote from: Banderites
Stepan Bandera (1909-1959), head of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that formed in 1929 as an amalgamation of movements including the Union of Ukrainian Fascists.[2][3] The union, known as OUN-B, had been engaged in various atrocities, including murder of civilians, most of whom were ethnic Poles.
...
These massacres resulted in the deaths of 80,000-100,000 Poles and 10,000-15,000 Ukrainians.
..
The OUN-B (Banderites) formed Ukrainian death squads that carried out pogroms and massacres both independently and with support from the Germans
...
To ensure maximum impact of the systematic ethnic cleansing campaign in the contested territory, OUN-B faction spread antisemitic, racist, and fascist propaganda among the ordinary peasants and other Ukrainians.
...
Bandera wrote a manifesto entitled "Ukrainian National Revolution" that called for the annihilation of so-called ethnic enemies.
...
included specific instructions about the killing of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainian opponents of fascism.
...
OUN leaflets...read: "Exterminate the Poles, Jews and communists without mercy. Do not pity the enemies of the Ukrainian National Revolution!
...
The first pogrom took the lives of at least 4,000 Jews... and the "Petlura Days" massacre of more than 2,000 Polish Jews by the Ukrainian militants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites

Quote
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists[1][2] (OUN), an organization responsible for ethnic cleansings also implicated in collaboration with Nazi Germany.
...
largely responsible for the massacres of Polish civilians[28] and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine.
...
his organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a massacre of Poles in Volhynia and, in early 1944, ethnic cleansing also spread to Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that more than 35,000 and up to 60,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia, and up to 100,000 if other regions, such as Eastern Galicia, are included.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera




Guy who was never even a citizen of Ukraine, kills 10k-15k Ukrainians (ignoring thousands of other women and children) that's your hero? Just cause he also killed Soviet people?

To summarize:

  • 1929   Bandera joined OUN
  • 1931   becoming the chief propaganda officer of the OUN
  • June 1933   became head of the OUN national executive
  • June 1934   assassination of Poland's Minister of the Interior Bronisław Pieracki. convicted of terrorism and sentenced to death but the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment in Poland
  • 1 Sep 1939   Germany Invades Poland.
  • Sept 1934   Bandera is freed from prison, moves to German-occupied zone of Poland offers his services to Nazi Germany in exchange for ongoing financial and logistical support.
  • Sept 1934   recruited before Operation Barbarossa during World War II into the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr for espionage, counter-espionage and sabotage.
  • 22 June 1941   Nazi Germany invades Soviet Union
  • 5 July 1941   Bandera is arrested in Germany
  • 14 July 1941   After 9 days released from custody was required to stay in Berlin
  • Jan 1942   Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high-profile political prisoners Zellenbau but kept in special, comparatively comfortable detention
  • Sep 1944   with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released and settles with his family in West Germany
  • 1946   OUN-B was re-formed in under the sponsorship of MI6. Organization had been receiving some support from MI6 since the 1930s. One faction of Bandera's organization...became more closely associated with the CIA
  •    Some American intelligence reported that he even was guarded by former SS men.
  •    Bandera reached an agreement with the BND, offering them his service, despite CIA warning the West Germans against cooperating with him.
  • 1959   Bandera was assassinated in 1959 by KGB agents in Munich.
  • 22 January 2010   President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko awarded Bandera the posthumous title of Hero of Ukraine.







Let's reiterate where everyone stands. On one side we have:
Russia
Israel
Germany - condemning crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians
Poland - declared Volhynia a genocide, and doesn't even allow cars with OUN (red black flag) stickers to enter Poland
EU - Deeply deplores ... to award Stepan Bandera, a leader of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) which collaborated with Nazi Germany, the title of ‘National Hero of Ukraine’; hopes, in this regard, that the new Ukrainian leadership will reconsider such decisions and will maintain its commitment to European values;

And on another side we have:
Ukrainian neo-Nazis
and YOU

Right, so we all got your stance on Bandera. A follow up question, how do you feel about Hitler, he also fought against Soviets, so is he a hero to you too?

You dipshit.  I am not Ukrainian. Read my post.
Bandera is a Ukrainian hero and always will be because he fought for the independence of Ukraine.

What Russia did to all of Eastern Europe/Caucasus/Siberia over the years is not forgivable. They are animals.

The current Z-ombification of Russia should be of concern to any sane human being.

The Z Russians today are ready to commit genocides without thinking twice about it.

All this de-Nazification nonsense is for idiots like you. It is to turn away your attention from the fact that Z Russians are NaZZZis.

Ukrainians are killing Russians because the Russians invaded their country.  

Russians are killing Ukrainians because they are Ukrainians.

BTW, can you list the mass killings of civilians committed by Ukrainians since 1991? Who is the Nazi now? LOL.


So from all of the facts that i provided that Bandera is a world wide condemned massacrist, your best rebuttal is that's he's still a hero just because he fought for the independence of Ukraine, as if that somehow negates all the murdering of innocent women and children as well as ethnic cleansings  Huh I accept your switch to personal attacks as indication that you ran out of any coherent arguments and a total capitulation on said topic.

I really hope that you're in minority, my next goal is to try and estimate how many Ukrainians actually approve of the massacres and see Bandera as a hero

Bandera was not near the massacres in Volhynia. You are attributing these atrocities to him instead of Mykola Lebed because you are a zombie who can only consume pro-Russian propaganda. Bandera was in the concentration camp when these atrocities were carried out.

I don't think you will find many Ukrainians today who would approve of the massacres of Poles during WWII. Of course, what happened was
deliberate, brutal ethnic cleansing. You will not find many Ukrainians today who are for the extermination of ethnic groups in Ukraine or elsewhere. That is just insane to suggest that the WWII massacres are somehow related to the invasion of Crimea and Donbas by Russia in 2014.

But on the other hand, Russian soldiers and Rosguardia have been given direct orders to annihilate the Ukrainian nation.

If you are truly against ethnic cleansing, you would be against Russians committing war crimes in Ukraine.  You would be against this war.

Instead, you are supporting a genocidal maniac who turned Russians into Z-ombies who think that bombing schools, hospitals, and civilian infrastructure somehow makes Russia great again and is just.  

All because Ukrainians consider Bandera their national hero?  That is just insane. But I repeat myself.

That wedge that Russians were always trying to stick between Poles and Ukrainians will not work. Polish people hosted millions of Ukrainians
fleeing Russian tanks in THEIR homes.

Here is the Polish president talking about the Polish-Ukrainian relations, current and past:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpaz22R2WBw

Russians lost the social media war, lost the economic and political wars, and soon they will lose the military war.


You do know what the "B" in the OUN-B stands for right? Hitler wasn't physically in Auschwitz/Treblinka turning on the gas pipes himself either, but that didn't help his case. Your foaming at the moth prevents you from seeing that it's not just me going out making up these claims about Bandera, it's the position of US, Germany, Russia, Israel, Poland, EU!

Hope you're not in Poland, cause you calling murderer Bandera a hero there would get you criminal responsibility for propaganda. And rightfully so!

Quote
President of Poland Andrzej Duda has decided to sign the law On Institute of National Memory that envisions introduction of criminal responsibility for propaganda of the Bandera Ideology and hand it over to the Constitutional Tribunal.
https://ukranews.com/en/news/545697-president-of-poland-duda-decides-to-sign-law-banning-bandera-ideology-and-pass-it-to-constitutional

I'm glad to hear that majority doesn't support extermination of ethnic groups, i already knew that, i'm just surprised to find how so many can be fooled into calling a guy who proposed doing exactly that a "hero", to a point where they name streets after him and build statues, as if there are no other more deserving Ukrainian, scientist, artists, anyone for that matter that didn't enable all of the murdering!

Quote
Google Translate
The ambassadors of Poland and Israel criticize Kyiv and Lviv for their historical policy
Diplomats explained that on December 24, the Lviv region council adopted a resolution on the allocation of public funds in 2020 to commemorate the Nazi collaborator Andriy Melnyk, as well as "xenophobic, anti-Semitic and anti-Polish writer" Ivan Lypa and his son Yuri Lypa, creator of the "racist Ukrainian theory" race ".

The ambassadors also pointed out that on January 1, a banner with the image of Stepan Bandera was displayed on the building of the state administration in Kiev.

"Bearing in mind our innocent brothers and sisters murdered in 1939–1945 in the occupied territories of Poland, which are now part of Ukraine, we, the Ambassadors of Poland and Israel, believe that glorifying those who actively promoted ethnic cleansing is an insult that is counterproductive in the fight against anti-Semitism and in the process of reconciling our nations, "reads the statement.
https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/artykuly/1446782,ukraina-melnyk-bandera-ambasador-polski-krytykuje.html


Banners at Zhovkva Castle, Ukraine, greet German liberators in July 1941 with the words: “Heil Hitler! Glory to Bandera! Long Live the Independent Ukrainian State! Long Live Our Leader Stepan Bandera!”

As far as my position, I already stated it a while back, I don't "support" any war, and in the beginning was surprised that it happened, but now reading more and more about it, i see just how unavoidable it was. It's just too easy for US to start wars while seemingly justifying it with best intentions of freedoms ("spreading democracy" is a meme by now). But of course US only cares about freedoms of countries who's dictators it doesn't support itself US Provides Military Assistance to 73 Percent of World’s Dictatorships.
We all know what would happen if Russia decided to support opposition promoting religious freedoms in Saudi Arabia. Or supporting "freedom fighters" for democracy, women rights, LGBT+, freedom of press etc... to Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain... And as a bonus any critic would be put on a spot to explaining why they oppose freedom of religion/democracy for poor oppressed Saudis...!

Initially I thought that US's support of Ukraine's 2014 coup was just a big diplomatic failure/miscalculation, but now seeing how US managed to prepare/arm Ukraine in 8yrs since then (to the point that even Russia initially seemed to have no clue what surprise they were stepping into), how Brexit happened, and how now Germany/France are all getting screwed, makes me think that this wasn't just a coincidence. Undercutting EU while making it fall in line and totally dependent on US while bringing Russia down is just too much of a coincidence.
320  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: May 22, 2022, 08:13:50 PM
...
  • 1 Sep 1939   Germany Invades Poland.
  • Sept 1939   Bandera is freed from prison, moves to German-occupied zone of Poland offers his services to Nazi Germany in exchange for ongoing financial and logistical support.
  • Sept 1939   recruited before Operation Barbarossa during World War II into the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr for espionage, counter-espionage and

A bit of time travel. And then teleportation?

killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia

Jan 1942   Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen

Sep 1944   with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released

You know what they say about extraordinary claims.

Perhaps you should have settled on "controversial" instead of trying to prove Putin's fantasies with fake information and lots of fallacies.

Thanks for proofreading, i stand corrected, sorry for the typo, Bandera was clearly freed from prison and recruited by Nazi intelligence service Abwehr in 1939 about 2yrs before Germany attacked Soviet Union.

As far as extraordinary claims, fake information and lots of fallacies, i'm honored but i'm not as well versed in the subject matter as you put me out to be, and in no position to make such claims. All of this was shamelessly taken directly from wikipedia (that's what those blue links are, i suggest you click them and give 'em a read, they're very educational).

Quote
For his refusal to rescind the decree, Bandera was arrested by the Gestapo and on 5 July 1941 held under house arrest.[6] After January 1942 Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp but kept in special, comparatively comfortable detention.[7][8][9] In 1944, with Germany rapidly losing ground in the war in the face of the advancing Allied armies, Bandera was released in the hope that he would be instrumental in deterring the advancing Soviet forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

Or are we at the stage of the argument where you're calling wikipedia info as "Putin's fantasies with fake information and lots of fallacies"?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 ... 139 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!