with your hashing power, they are other coins which are more profitable... (exe for example... which beat all the coins you have on that list)

Oh I forgot to add Momentum, thanks. YaCoin goes under Scrypt-N or a new category: N14?

Also do you want the MYR for the Momentum coins or should I donate to bounty fund?

First I mean coins as in any coin's hashrate at the moment.

I could simply end this argument by pointing you at BitCoin and saying... its decentralized... its completely ASIC. Argument finished. But.. here is a rant if you want.

Knc isn't the only company producing Asics for scrypt. They are also only one company and there production cannot take 51% of the global hashrate for LiteCoin or DogeCoin.. or hell WorldCoin.

Also I ordered asics from GridSeed. And I have them running now. So... although i did experience unexpected delays I do not feel that is because Hashra wants to take 51% of the hashing power to rule the LTC world! MUAHAHAHAHAAH... cough cough

Lets say you only do mining with a GPU only coin. Lets get the scenario set.
1. The difficulty will always rise. (Just like BTC and LTC)
2. The price rises over time... in theory but has bumps along there way. (Just like BTC and LTC)
3. The price also doesn't rise in direct proportion to the diff. (Just like BTC and LTC)

You mine with your GPUs.
You have 12 of them.
You can space currently for 12 more. Any more and you would have to either move your setup or pay for an electrician for more AMPs and better cooling.
The diff keeps going up.
You keep adding more.
You like many other people run out of space and/or power and/or effect way to cool.
The diff keeps rising
The diff keeps rising
... rising.... rising
How does it keep rising?
Two things...
1. People keep adopting the coin and they setup there own 12+ cards.
2. There are people out there that have there own mini datacenters with 100s of cards. These people have money.. and time.
Eventually it becomes more and more unpractical to mine with your GPUs with this coin. You move on to another coin.
Eventually the mass majority of miners left on that coin are the ones with piss tons of GPUs. That is not very decentralized.

If you say... "Wait the price will go up too. So my 24 card rig would still make money right?". Will it make more money then perhaps a different coin? If you where to shift with others wouldn't that be a sign that your coin isn't stable?

But more notably. Diff DOES NOT EFFECT PRICE! Or at least not heavily. Trading amounts and adoption effect price. The more trades normally means the price will rise. BitCoin rose and fell not with its diff (although the diff has rose) the price rose with a massive adoption and interest in the coin, mostly in China. The diff and the price of wattage helps to keep the price from dropping below a certain point. And it also helps to rise the price. But it only a minor effect in comparison to say.. rumors of China changing there policy on crypocurrancy. That can cause price drops... huge ones.


Here is an analogy:
Say you want to get into the mover business. Its awesome. You can make money on the side and you can use equipment you already own and take care of. Other people catch onto the idea for some spare cash and its really exciting. You have your car to help move stuff and you get paid for it.

Well time goes by and more people want to get into it. They see it as a way to make more money. Not just on the side. So they go out and buy a truck. Trucks are much more fuel efficient. You see your car may get twice.. nearly 3 times the fuel economy. But because its a small car you have to make 10 trips. The Truck only 1 thus more efficient. And because you have to take 10 trips the guy with the Truck can get many more jobs before you even get one finished.

Before you know it its hard to find even a single job because everyone around now has Trucks. So what do you do? Do you buy a Truck or do you complain that everyone else has one?

Well of course you complain that everyone else has a Truck but you do not.

But it gets worse. You see there are lots of people out there interested in the mover business now. You are a trend starter! But they look at your car and wonder why? Its more expensive. It may have low upfront cost, but it has low long term returns. It may be a nicer starter point to test the waters so to speak. But it is not a solid long term investment.

Because of this the mover business isn't taken seriously and wide adoption isn't excepted. (This is where the analogy really breaks up... but yeah its not perfect) Without being taken seriously the system can never grow beyond a certain point. It can be a great tool to fight the man or the banking system if you are in a 3rd world country. Or Spain whose youth pretty much blame the Banks for being assholes. But thats about it.



All you have to do is look at BitCoin to see how awesome ASICs are to the little guy. Right now I can buy an ANT Miner S1 for roughly 400 bucks with shipping included! It will arrive at my doorstep before the end of the week. (I buy from BitMain directly and I always get them in roughly 3 to 4 days later). There current return in investment is about 60 days! You CANNOT do that with GPUs. A new R9 280x from newegg is not going to get you that kinda ROI with almost any coin. And if it does the longer that Coin is around the less the ROI will be for mining it. Rise in diff being faster then the rise in price.

If someone wanted to get them selves into mining I would point them in that direction. They are cheap, you can buy them and get them within days. And there ROI is quick. Oh... one more then... you dont have to learn a bunch of crazy computer stuff. No Linux.. no windows... riser cards whats that? I have to short the A1 and B17 pins on a PCI 1x slot.. i didn't even know that was hot swappable! Compile what you say? Or... can you browse the web? Good you can setup a dam Ant Miner S1 none of that other noise. Congrats you are mining. You can put easily 5+ or 10+ in your house without changing a dam thing.

ASICs empowers new comers. (Makes it easy by putting into one package)
ASICs is cheaper. (400 bucks after shipping is about the same price or only a little more then a R9 280x which doesn't give you as much)
ASICs improves centralization by giving everyone the ability to scale there mining operation. And if you are running out of power in your house using ASICs then at that point you are easily making enough money to go Colo.

GPUs where not made for mining. They where made for graphics. They demand a lot more power. It is simply better to use a device/tool for what it was meant for.  What needs to be focused on is the coin features and technology itself. Not how its "mined" or "minted".

Its a noble idea to let people use equipment they already own to help them make more money. But the truth is that most miners and any serious miners are people who are already in one way or another in the techy/nerdy field. You are not empowering the world. Just a bunch of nerdy geeky people... like myself. And that isn't going to change. The daily user of BTC/LTC/X11 shouldn't need to mine. They simply use the currency.

Again on my soap box but focus should be on things like BitCoin 2.0. Or new ideas like Poof of Stake or multi-algorithm coins. That try to help deal with some of the possible pitfalls of the current coins. BitCoin is only an idea. And the idea still needs work. That should be the focus.

And... I just wasted 30 minutes of my life... *sigh* why internet... why.

OP, I understand what you are trying to do, but you are fighting a losing battle.

A hard fork is simply the creation of a new coin. Sure you can say, "This new coin will honor the balances of the old coin prior to block X", but its still a new coin.

There is no point in fighting technological progress, you will ultimately fail. You cannot protect anything from the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

pure keccak i agree with. the riecoin algo isnt a bad choice either.

No such thing as asic-proof with most common algorithms. If the schedule is known in advance, an ASIC designer can make the necessary accommodations.

If on the other hand the coin is protected by the will of the devs to hardfork to something slightly different, then any algorithm is ok. For example just as scrypt-n could change the n factor, X11 could hardfork to reverse the flow of hashing between some hash types, thus braking ASIC functionality that expects the flow to go a certain way. Or even adding another two three hashes and making it X12/X13/X14/X15 etc.

So because you want to change the creation of the devs or because the peoples want, you will? it's not your creation man...

You're a fcking nazi.

I was thinking: Keccak is very mineable for nvidia users. Skein and Qubit seem to occupy the same mining niche. Maybe we replace one of those with keccak.