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1  Local / Discussioni avanzate e sviluppo / Re: Gangsta, double spend con replace-by-fee on: February 22, 2015, 08:42:47 PM
Complimenti Guido per il progetto e per il suo nome  Cheesy
2  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: [NEWS] In italiano - 2015 - Raccolta di link dei media in lingua italiana on: February 08, 2015, 05:24:11 PM
La traduzione italiana di un articolo molto interessante che parla della nascita della Federal Reserve:

Bitcoin segna l'inizio della fine di 100 anni di schiavitù

Lettura consigliatissima.

Grazie tra gli altri ad AlexRossi per l'aiuto nella traduzione.
3  Local / Mining (Italiano) / Re: Cointeler POOL per minare SCRYPT on: February 03, 2015, 01:51:50 PM
"A'hoi miners, come va? Domani PROMESSO pagheremo tutti gli arretrati e per scusarci regaleremo 1000000 Doge a chi comprerà un contratto Expert.
Siamo veramente delusi dalle accuse di scam che ci sono state rivolte, a dimostrazione della nostra lealtà vorremmo ricordare che stiamo distribuendo una carta Mastercard con la quale riusciremo ad incularvi anche gli ultimi risparmi.

Sperando sia sufficiente e abbastanza confortante vi ringraziamo per la fiducia"

4  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: cointellect on: February 03, 2015, 01:50:03 PM
It has been a nice ride, while it lasted!  Cheesy
5  Local / Mining (Italiano) / Re: Cointeler POOL per minare SCRYPT on: February 03, 2015, 11:47:17 AM
Cointellect è un ottimo esempio per capire come lavora uno schema di Ponzi.

Non solo le dinamiche dell'azienda, ma delle persone stesse che, difendendola in buona fede, permettono che possa aumentare il giro di persone truffate.
6  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: cointellect on: February 03, 2015, 10:32:50 AM
Payments and communication stopped, the game is over Smiley
7  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2015-02-02 CA - Cointellect Review : Shortcomings But Not a Scam on: February 03, 2015, 10:31:38 AM
cointellect has stopped paying and the team stopped responding to inquiries.

They flew away with all the cash the people gave them, as with any other Ponzi scheme.
8  Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Calling the Bottom on: February 03, 2015, 10:29:06 AM
Really? Could you please explain how those 100'000 people get more "freedom from oppresive governments" by using bitcoin?  Is "freedom"  just evading taxes, or buying illegal drugs, weapons, child porn -- or is there something else?

Claim: in its 6 years of existence, bitcoin has caused 1000x more damage than benefits to the world.

Bitcoin has given me hope to be one day free from the ideas that governs your way of thinking.

Thanks for continually remind me it with every post you make.
9  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: [NEW][LISTA] Servizi per maggiore PRIVACY: mixer, exchange adatti, suggerimenti. on: December 28, 2014, 05:34:56 PM
Un exchange tecnicamente avanzato che non mi sembra presente in lista:
10  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: [NEW][LISTA] Servizi per maggiore privacy: mixer, exchange adatti, suggerimenti. on: December 23, 2014, 07:56:14 AM
Aggiungerei tutti gli exchange, in particolare quelli che non hanno a che fare con fiat, es. bittrex, cryptsy, etc (non ne conosco ma so che ce ne sono molti)
11  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: [NEWS] In italiano - 2014 - Raccolta di link dei media in lingua italiana on: December 13, 2014, 02:10:22 PM
Criptovalute ed un teorema della regressione più ampio
12  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 12, 2014, 09:52:23 PM
Sidechains irrelevant, Bitcoin UP.

this could very well be true.

in that case, why change anything?
And what if the rally is being fueled by the understanding of sidechains, thanks to the debate of this thread? ;-)
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning on: November 12, 2014, 08:09:25 PM
"Counterparty announced that its developers have successfully ported the Ethereum Project’s programming language over to the Counterparty platform, enabling users to save and execute Turing Complete Ethereum code on the Bitcoin blockchain. With this new development, Counterparty makes it possible to execute Ethereum smart contracts on the more secure Bitcoin blockchain."

How will this affect Ethereum? Will the Counterparty-Ethereum platform be slow? Can it be scalable? Anyone have any thoughts?
That simply means that the people that bought ether have thrown away their money.

Now ethereum can work on top of counterparty and tomorrow, if ethereum still exists and useful, will be implemented as a two way pegged bitcoin sidechain.
14  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 10, 2014, 12:57:33 PM
Them so be it. You, they, whoever can think what they wan,  it dorsnt matter to me anymore . I think SC's are a  bad idea.
You mean this it your position, in spite of every piece of evidence someone can produce?

Breaking the link between the currency and its ledger introduces too much risk to the system.
I completely agree: in fact this is exactly what happened in disasters like the mtgox issue.

SC could help in that regards. There is no guarantee, but there is some hope if it works as claimed: that's what "permissionless transition between the two chains" is all about.
For example, with mtgox we had to wait for its permission before withdrawing the btc on yours (theirs) account. That caused the problem to grow bigger and bigger.

But by all means go ahead. Devs gotta dev and its clear they've lead the way economically for this whole project. Good luck.
We are all on the same boat and it's our responsibility to check their work and warn other users if we see some weak link: we'll try to this job when the first SC will be announced and we'll be able to check the code and its implications.
15  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: Vi invio.. MERDA on: November 10, 2014, 11:01:42 AM
Appena saranno disponibili nuovi tipi di shit, propopongo di fare colletta ed inviare regolarmente un package in parlamento Cheesy
16  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 10, 2014, 10:32:21 AM
lol, your stubbornness is gonna help me push this to 1,000,000 views soon enough.

you will single handedly be held responsible for causing the SC concept to fail with all the negative publicity you're gonna create.
What do you know about what are the readers thinking?
You just know the number of views, not their sentiment.

Maybe history will remember you for how much foolish you were being so stubborn in not understanding that 2wp SC can help Bitcoin move forward Smiley
17  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 06, 2014, 09:44:18 PM
Side chains per se, do not solve all the problems Bitcoin has today, nor are they a guarantee of anything.
What they are is a mechanism.  They may have the potential to solve problems.  That will depend entirely on what people do with them.  They are another tool in the tool belt.  It can be used to build or destroy.  The existence of this mechanism does not guarantee the success of Bitcoin.  It would be nice if it did, and we could all just sit back and wait for the magic to happen.
I completely agree, I'm sorry if I used a worse wording, I think the problem is I'm not a native English speaker and this has effects Smiley

Instead there is a new tool, a new mechanism.  It may be used by all sorts of people, and groups.  This is great, it is the nature of open source collaboration.  However we must recognize that only some people may share common goals with you or me, and others may not.  And you may not know whether any particular SC creator does or doesn't.  There may be wolves in alpaca clothing.
Again, I agree... and "wolves in alpaca clothing" is fantastic Cheesy I'll take this expression as mine henceforth, if you don't mind Smiley

These are the sorts of things that I (and presumably CypherDoc and others) consider with caution.  What makes this even more of a concern is when we see these posts that essentially say "there is nothing to worry about", "this fixes everything" or "the details of the cryptography don't matter".
Those sort of statements are either (a) just misunderstood word choices (and something else was meant by the author), or (b) maybe the author is simply misguided or exuberant , or (c) perhaps they may be malicious attempts to misguide others.
What you wrote here below is sensible.  We may disagree on some matters of preference, but I like that you say what side chains "can" do rather than what they "will" do.  It is important to understand that they can be used and also can be abused.
Again, I completely agree.

The problem is that while I understand they can be abused, I also understand that the problem they can create is one of these two types:

1) an altcoin. Yes, that can be a problem, but it's not a different problem than the one we have right now.

2) a service that fails. Let's remember that a 2wp sidechain is a service completely analogous to the one offered today by a coinbase or a mtgox. We know they can add value to the network, and we know they can fail bringing enormous problems to their users, but they can't harm bitcoin, the network. That's why I consider SC an improvement to the actual situation, and it's because we have an algorithm to programmatically move coins between the chain.
And that movement can be done without requesting permission.
That's not a minor improvement: that's the difference between day and night, and one that can solve a lot of problems, like for example the fractional reserve of mtgox.

I think Cypherdoc is understanding the function and capabilities pretty well.  I also think his caution is reasonable.
I agree that caution is reasonable, and I'm eager to understand the failure cases, but simply I don't find any evidence, not from cypherdoc, in any case.
18  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 06, 2014, 01:11:49 PM
You should have ended that particular sentence with the first phrase.
I can't understand what you mean.

The problem that you share with brg444 is that you not only make claims which are unsubstantiated and too grand, you also encourage discounting of reasonable risks and concerns.  This "answers" criticism without explaining it, which should not be your goal if you are looking for agreement with your position.
I try to use high-level reasoning, for example giving for granted that making "trustless 2wp" is possible (we can't be completely sure, for now).

So, looking at the cryptomoney ecosystem I see that Bitcoin has a clear advantage to any other coin, mainly due to network effect and infrastructure built around it, and that's good.

Bute there are a lot of new coins coming out, and apart from some stupid copycats (most of them), some innovation is being done in the field.

I don't want to have 10 or even only 3 different coins which share the market (and hence bitcoin capitalisation and liquidity), each one filling some gap that bitcoin can't cover (or that it does badly), I would prefer Bitcoin to be "the perfect money".

Now, we know we need to be very, very conservative on the changes to the core protocol because the possibility of breakage, even when minuscule, can cause enormous problems, so we need to research and thoroughly test new ideas before they can be imported in Bitcoin.

Also, almost everyone agrees on the fact that Bitcoin development is too centralized, with a few actors having much greater role of any others in pushing some set of changes.

So, the only way left are lobbying the developers (and we don't want that), or creating completely new altcoins that has to compete with Bitcoin and anyway take liquidity and market cap from it.
Also, even if remote, there is the risk that one of these altcoin, if backed by a big corp like amazon, apple, microsoft & C could really be a Bitcoin competitor in the future: Bitcoin actual market cap is tiny even compared to the size of one the big player market cap.

How to permit innovation in Bitcoin land without some small group of people could veto them for whatever reason it is?
And for innovation in Bitcoin I mean for example: better anonimity, higher TPS, better security, more decentralized mining, and certainly NOT the raising on the maxmimum number of existing bitcoin units and their distribution.

I think that SC can solve this problem: it mantains what is the good of bitcoin (cap on the coins, their distribution and security for who does not want to use new features) and enable permissionless innovation for everybody who want to give it a try.

If a SC which is completely better than Bitcoin under every aspect can arise, so be it: that will be a better money for everybody, and it can grow up bit by bit without disrupting bitcoin market, infrastructure and its market cap.
Alternatively, a SC which is better than Bitcoin under only some aspects and not all of them will give more value to the whole ecosystem without any drawback: only who is interested in it uses it without taking anything to any other.

I'm unable to envision a way for a SC to destroy Bitcoin, except for the case that we already knows: altcoins.

Every time I read cypherdoc on the subject I'm unable to understand the kind of threat he sees, and it seems to me simply that he is missing the point of what a 2wp gives us.

I'll continue to read the thread with interest to better understand these kind of scenarios, if any, I thank everybody for their contribution to the matter.
19  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 06, 2014, 10:11:39 AM
I think you should just stop advocating for side chains.  You are a bad spokesperson for the cause.  People will read these posts of yours and get the idea that someone is hyping SC for some nefarious purpose, because these posts of yours just don't make sense, and not even internally consistent with itself. 
I think instead brg444 did a great job answering a lot of the criticism related to sidechains.

As for myself I've some reserves on them too, but they are more about the technical side of the things, for example that the SPV proofs can work. It may and should work as advertised, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to verify all the calculations.

But if we take for granted that the math is ok (as this thread seems doing), I find the critics of this thread mostly dumb. Cypherdoc in primis seems to be completely without any clue, and I find this a bit strange.

Again, I don't know if the 2wp using SPV could work as defined, but if they to, SC would solve all the problems Bitcoin has today and guarantee his success in the way forward.

SC can save Bitcoin from competing and possibly better altcoins and give it the possibility to evolve as the market requires without requiring all Bitcoin participants to agree on every new feature that has to be added to the core protocol.

Heck, even the raise of the block limit fails to find a consensus in the Bitcoin community, and that should be an easy one.
20  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 06, 2014, 09:07:04 AM
in the meantime, silver is being destroyed.  need i say more on this topic?

Is this a direct consequence?


Please excuse me for having posted back on topic  Cheesy
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