Bitcoin Forum
February 26, 2024, 07:47:28 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »
1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TorCoin on: June 22, 2014, 09:06:20 AM
Is anyone working on implementing this?
2  Economy / Economics / USD & EUR: Something I don't get (exchange rates and crisis) on: August 11, 2013, 10:16:00 AM
Hello,

I am a tech guy, without too much knowledge about economy, but a certain amount of interest in it. This is an economical question, so please don't make it unnecessarily political. I understand that these things relate, so I wanna emphasize the unnecessarily in this statement.

Lately I kinda miss the discussion about the Euro crisis. So I wanted to see what's up with exchange rates and stuff. I am still not sure, but I saw something else that made me wonder. In 2001 when the Euro came to be as actually used money (even though it was virtually around since 1999) the exchange rate was from 1 EUR ~ 0.85 USD to ~ 0.95 USD in it's early days. I remember how back then everyone was like "Oh my god, will the EUR have a chance to replace the USD with all these economies working together now?"

That attitude of course changed since then. Before the (world's) financial crisis I remember that there was something strange. Both China and the US tried to artificially devaluate their currencies to increase exports. The Euro had a trouble, because it was too stable and most European countries depend heavily on exports (more than the US, less than China). Everyone was like "It's great, we can buy cheap stuff from the US, but oh my god, we focused too hard on a strong Euro, maybe we should reduce those measures".

Things changed again. Meanwhile everyone talks about how weak the Euro is. Everyone is like "Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, ... The Euro isn't going to be worth anything soon". And now what I don't get about it: The current exchange rate is 1 EUR = 1.337 USD (lol nice value, just looked at the European Central Bank's website, giving out the currency).  That's a huge increase.

Now I understand that the US economy, like most economies really suffer these days. However, nobody is like "Oh my god, the USD won't exist anymore soon or they will split, ... PANIC", like in Europe. Okay, that changed in Europe too, but the current exchange rate isn't any different from what it was over the last few years. In fact it's even lower, so people should be panicking more.

Or is it actually the other way round? Should Europe actually be heading towards a lower exchange rate?
)
Sorry, I am sure these questions seem really dumb, but like I said. I am just a tech guy and I've got to start somewhere. I guess I should read books or so about it, but I really have a long list already. Wink
3  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Legality of prostitution and being homeless on: January 06, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
That's always confused the crap out of me, oh and don't get me started on Japan actually censoring porn... Just... Why?

I learned that Japan has a pretty hierarchical society (correct me, if it's not true!), but sexuality is something, personal, individual that basically puts everyone on the same level or even creates a completely different hierarchy. I think it could be related to this, but also be completely wrong here.
4  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Freedom is ... on: January 06, 2013, 07:01:07 PM
On the topic:

...a state of mind.
5  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Legality of prostitution and being homeless on: January 06, 2013, 06:58:40 PM
About prostitution I feel like there are relationships that (sadly) are built the same way or in other words prostitution becomes legal after marriage, which doesn't make sense either.

Other than that I think it should be legal, because it is a freedom and it should never be forced, just like any other work.
6  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Legality of prostitution and being homeless on: January 06, 2013, 05:44:52 PM
It is a neutral question. Either you think it should be illegal or not. I think it's ridiculous for either or these things to be illegal, but I want to know what other people's opinion is.

For further reference consult Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#Criminalization_of_homelessness


@niko: Yes, that's what I mean and I agree, although I consider it way worse than failing to provide shelter.


Other than that the question is somewhat coupled with "having an address", which is a requirement for many things. I think one wouldn't even get a postbox without one, right?
7  Other / Politics & Society / Legality of prostitution and being homeless on: January 06, 2013, 04:53:51 PM
What is your opinion?
8  Other / Politics & Society / Money vs Property on: December 26, 2012, 11:49:31 AM
tl;dr: If money is never yours, how can it be stolen?

A few thoughts on money, taxes and how you are not stolen.

Many libertarians call taxes a way of stealing money (or wealth) from people who have it.

I don't think that can be considered true, because money is never yours in first place. So if you invest all your work and effort into getting something that never is yours anyway then complaining about it being taken away seems kinda foolish, doesn't it?

Look at your dollar bill. It says it isn't your property. So how can it be stolen.

Another thing is that stuff that you own and is your property is usually something you can do with whatever you want. However, you aren't allowed to do so. You aren't even allowed to destroy it, for example burn it (hey, it's winter! Brrr..). It's even worse: Doing so is considered a sign of mental illness.

Maybe that's also a question to lawyers. If something I have is basically not mine, or even worse debt, then how can it be considered a crime?

The whole thing also sounds kinda authoritarian. I mean the thing everyone cares about and the thing that wealth is measured in can never be yours.

All of this doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe someone here can explain how all of this is wrong and hey, maybe someone can even compare it to Bitcoin. Isn't it way more fun? Also does that mean that you [as a libertarian] should be against the kind of money we have right now in first place? Is that a reason why you all are here?
9  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen if everyone got 1000 USD every month? on: December 09, 2012, 01:46:24 PM
Money doesn't come from taxes that only rich people have to pay and so the system doesn't rest on their shoulders.
Instead, everyone has to pay, although the rich still pay more, for reasons I will explain below.
The money will in the end go to working people
No it won't. There is no end. No matter how much money the working people make, the non-working people still keep getting their free money.
I am talking about the combination of these two. The 1000 USD, if devalued will be used up and therefor go to the working people, which use it to basically pay for the inflation. Not?

Quote
You won't be able to afford any kind of luxury, if 1000 USD are worth even less
True. And that is a bad thing. Why would anyone think that's a good thing?
[/quote]
Cause it requires people to work, in place of how it is now, where you can lie back and still have what you want.

Quote
Pays would therefor (I guess) be higher, so you won't have this "I'd earn as much, if I didn't work" thing
Guess again.
Devalued money, same work: Higher pay than what the difference between working people, who don't earn much money and people that live on welfare is currently

Quote
It isn't like a tax, because it's not bound to some specific thing (doesn't matter how rich you are)
It is bound to specific thing (your money), and therefore it does matter how rich you are. If your money is being devalued by (say) 10% every year, and you have (say) $100,000, then that's exactly the same as paying $10,000 tax per year. If you have $1,000,000, you're paying the equivalent of $100,000 tax per year.
I am not talking about fixing everything, but making it fairer than it is right now. You pay a different tax depending on how rich you are and receive a different amount of welfare (and that's what I meant with being bound to something) depending on what kind of illness you have, what job you are best at and whether you go to the army.

Quote
It is no traditional minimal income, because it is added and doesn't depend on anything and isn't just for poor people/people who don't work
It is not being added, for there is nothing to add. As I said, the demand for money is fixed, so every dollar that you print is a dollar deducted from the collective purchasing power of everyone who owns dollars. By distributed those dollars to everyone whether they're working or not, you are stealing from everyone who has money (and presumably worked for it), and giving to everyone who doesn't (ie, those who aren't working).

First off working power is not money. I know that, because I don't work a lot, yet receive way more money than people who do, just for sitting on my ass. I usually donate a lot of it, because I feel uncomfortable (seen that donate to EFF/get a humble bundle cheaper thread of mine? I basically donate to all the projects that are about putting power into people's hands (know something?)).

Second, it depends on your view of money. The US and China kinda had a competition (and that was in both Bush's and Obama's time) of printing more and more money to basically devalue their debts. So that already happens only that who receive it isn't evened out.

What I meant with being added is:
Non working guy: 0 + 1000
Working guy: 2000 + 1000

while minimal income, like a lot of countries have it (even if it's a more complex system) is like:

Non working guy: 0 + 1000
Part time worker: 800 + 200
Hard working guy: 2000 + 0

I think from this system you could better work away from stuff like health care, scholarships, family stuff, etc. into the direction where people can choose what's important to them. It also would make administration way easier and therefor make a lot of taxes unnecessary. That's what I am heading for and what I meant with the difference compared to socialism.

Quote
I know, it has an effect and if you really read what I wrote you think that it will act like a tax, because the devaluation is bigger for working people, right? Do you really think the effect would be the same even though the gap between working and none working people is probably even higher than now?
The gap between the working and non-working people will decrease, not increase, and that's bad. It punishes people who work and rewards people who don't.

Compared to the current system, even with money devaluation, really?

Quote
Also do you think it would maybe still be a better solution to have it like that rather to have this complex welfare system every country has now?
Better than what we have now isn't really saying much.
Well, I didn't expect this to solve all problems, just make things better would be a first step.

Quote
If you still think it's exactly the same would you mind telling me why you think it is?
It's not exactly the same. I neglected to mention that inflation, unlike taxation, is an invisible sack of shit. But it stills stinks, and everyone knows it stinks, though the uneducated can't tell where the stink is coming from.
[/quote]
Uh, yep a Bitcoin based economy would be better. I think so too or a society where people are educated. Basically, because I don't think we would have a huge problem with non-workers anymore, but yeah that's why I made that thread. Want to know alternatives and steps to get there. I don't really care, if I am completely wrong with that. I didn't study economy and writing under a pseudonym, so I will at least know I am wrong.

I just consider inflation more fair than taxes, because it evens things out more than all the tax systems. I mean either it's unfair for people who simply were like born into a poor family or something and even if they had potential and will to become workers will end up not getting education and stuff and for society that means that they'd lack a Stephen Hawking, because he had the bad luck of being disabled.

I also think that it would make a difference to the current system, because I think what really makes people work is society. I mean, no matter who you are you are still a human and extremely influenced by the society you are in. Be in Germany in the wrong time and wrong family and you will very, very likely be a Nazi. I mean same thing basically happened in Rwanda only that nobody intervened, because they were no real threat like Germany. Anyway, just making a point on how big the influence of society. You could say the same about the kind of music you listen too, football team you support or the words you use. And if you want to be different you do the opposite. Still influenced by it.

So basically you wanna be rich for society. Be it for your family, for being able to wear nice clothes or to follow your hobbies (if you really hate society).

I don't think strong socialism really was killed because of that. I mean, see Cuba (my standard example on this forum). They support US students and African countries, doing much better than other countries in that area, while having the strongest super power as enemy and being financially sanctioned by it. I think that would kill every EU country. Also from documentaries it's kinda weird. Poor people work and are super happy and rich people are like sitting in their villas living there for free and off the state. Seems to work and from people I know from there the poor ones don't just pretend to be happy. Don't saying Cuba is a good country. It actually sucks in most ways, but given these facts I don't think that the criticism from earlier is like completely true and I think the reason actually is society.
10  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen if everyone got 1000 USD every month? on: December 09, 2012, 01:01:03 PM
@neptop. Yes I am in the UK.
I think all the western countries as devaluing their currency at about the same rate (as the exchange rates USD V GBP V EURO are roughly stable)

Okay, now I wonder about whether you know how.

The reason is that there are countries in the EU, where you study for free while in the US you have to pay your debt all life long (so it isn't government debt), while the quality (aside from a small elite universities) appears to be the same. Same fir health care, etc. The standard of living appears to be better in Europe (subjectively, but I was at both places to visit friends, so not tourist are) and when I look at studies like from Mercer it seems to be better for you if you were born there.

I mean, it's awful what's going on in Greece for example, but then if you compare the average debts of EU and US it's not like they are doing worse.
11  Economy / Economics / Re: US Debt - Visualized in physical $100 bills on: December 09, 2012, 12:44:05 PM
"That is what our money system is. If there were no debts in our money system, there wouldn't be any money."

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/marriner_eccles_quote_b64e

Smartass Idea: Let us get rid of money. Grin
12  Economy / Economics / Re: US Debt - Visualized in physical $100 bills on: December 09, 2012, 12:40:04 PM
I want a visualization of the yearly interest from that debt. Smiley
13  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen if everyone got 1000 USD every month? on: December 09, 2012, 12:28:10 PM
I was sat in a cafe recently and on the next table to me was what I call a "Mother Daughter". The mother was a pensioner (a senior). The daughter had travelled a couple of hours to catch up with her mum.

The mother spent most of the hour I was in there complaining that her pension did not go as far as it did in the past. Clearly she was struggling to maintain her standard of living.

Imagine what is happening here in macroeconomic terms.
She is being given, say, $1000 a month to maintain her standard of living. She is not expected to produce anything in return for this.
This is as per the OP's proposal.

The government in the UK has to print a considerable proportion of its spending every year to provide these "tickets" that we call pounds. You call them dollars in the US but it's the same thing !

In the UK the government deficit is about 10% so:

+ At the beginning of 2012 she receives $1000 a month and there are $X trillion tickets in the economy.
+ At the beginning of 2013 she still receives $1000 a month but now there are $X * 1.1 trilliion tickets.

(I am ignoring the measly 1% pension rise per annum they are getting are the moment).
If everything stays the same, she is poorer in terms of purchasing power by 10%.

Printing tickets and handing them out is no substitute for real goods.




Very interesting write up, I did not know this before.

Can you explain more in depth how she is poorer in terms of purchasing power?

I didn't write it, but I would say the reason is this:

Quote
In the UK the government deficit is about 10%

And maybe I should read up on UK politics. I just know that it's neither what it is in the rest of the EU, nor in the US, but while they have a nice currency they seem to still mess up more than both of them, when it comes to money <-> living, regardless of whether you are poor or rich, which is why I never got into that. Other countries seem to do better, but maybe they are just in between and have a good main street. jim618, are you living in the UK. Can you compare it with the US and/or the EU (I mean countries like, France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Norway, not Greece, Spain or Italy). Already got so much to read up on and would be happy to know the rough differences. Wink
14  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen if everyone got 1000 USD every month? on: December 09, 2012, 12:24:28 PM
Also it wouldn't have to come from other people's taxes, but from kinda devaluing the money making stuff more expensive
Same shit, different sack. If you don't understand why these are exactly the same shit, you've got more reading (or thinking) to do.

Okay, maybe that was a bit harsh, but here a few differences from socialism:

  • People don't have like food stamps or a different kind of money. (in some systems, like Cuba)
  • Neither the government nor the workers govern companies.
  • Money doesn't come from taxes that only rich people have to pay and so the system doesn't rest on their shoulders.
  • People will get a fixed amount of money, so a free market and value of stuff can adapt to it (there are no free markets in socialism)
  • The money will in the end go to working people
  • You won't be able to afford any kind of luxury, if 1000 USD are worth even less
  • Pays would therefor (I guess) be higher, so you won't have this "I'd earn as much, if I didn't work" thing
  • It isn't like a tax, because it's not bound to some specific thing (doesn't matter how rich you are)
  • It is no traditional minimal income, because it is added and doesn't depend on anything and isn't just for poor people/people who don't work

I know, it has an effect and if you really read what I wrote you think that it will act like a tax, because the devaluation is bigger for working people, right? Do you really think the effect would be the same even though the gap between working and none working people is probably even higher than now?

Also do you think it would maybe still be a better solution to have it like that rather to have this complex welfare system every country has now?

If you still think it's exactly the same would you mind telling me why you think it is?
15  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen if everyone got 1000 USD every month? on: December 09, 2012, 12:02:31 PM

Looks like you didn't read my post. I am not saying everyone basically gets the same, like in socialism. I ask about people receiving an addition to whatever they earn anyways. Things would not change other than that. Please, either learn about what socialism is or read my post.
16  Economy / Economics / Re: Has the 'Bitcoin Experiment' changed your political or economic views at all? on: December 09, 2012, 12:00:39 PM
I feel more fond about my guesses. I feel like I've been pretty correct with what I considered wild guesses and found out that they actually were kinda conservative.

I consider it to be way less occultism and learned that it is way more based on kinda random human behavior than I thought. I now understand that it's more like you can, if you have many "users" (agents?) in a system use statistics and compare them with empirical data to find out what's going to happen, but you can have really bad luck with choosing the data. Most likely I am just really bad at it.

This manifested my (wild) guess that economic systems are based on societies and makes me think things could change rather quickly, if people are educated. However, while I consider this to be way more possible (in theory) than before Bitcoin I also consider it to be way harder (practically) than I thought earlier.

I now have a more global view on things and an even bigger aversion from generalizing ideologies. They are way too big and too complex and a communist socialist can be closer to to a libertarian capitalist than another communist socialist and vice versa, even if they usually would never acknowledge this to themselves. I am the same, but it doesn't matter, because people seem to do a a pretty good job overcoming this as long as they know what they actually want and aren't just blindly agreeing with what they consider to be their ideology. Makes me think of nationalism and religion/atheism.

Last, but not least I learned that money isn't as important as I considered it to be. It's really nothing, but a random tool and whether it exists doesn't really matter at all; just like the free market. Sociology seems to be way more important and as someone who hates it or doesn't even consider it a real science that's probably the biggest change of views.

Also politics doesn't seem to matter at all. So basically, if people are stupid, neither money, nor politics won't change that. The same is true for smart people. So all in all being critical in the way a real scientist/researcher/philosopher is (with that I exclude people that just have some title/degree and/or are on TV shows) seems to be the most worthwhile thing. So if you want to change something, maybe figure out how to make people like that and maybe teach them self-criticism. Or just don't care, because nothing matters anyway. Seems to be both true.
17  Economy / Economics / What would happen if everyone got 1000 USD every month? on: December 09, 2012, 10:46:41 AM
Hey,

I didn't study economics, but I always was interested. With all the discussions about how fair things are these days I wonder whether a system where every single person would receive 1000 USD (like direct from the printing press) could improve things. I am not talking about minimum wage or whatever.

What I think (maybe I am completely wrong) could be great about this is that nobody can complain that someone else receives more, because everyone receive the same. Also it wouldn't have to come from other people's taxes, but from kinda devaluing the money making stuff more expensive and therefor causes working people, from the cleaning lady to the manager receiving more money. What I think would be nice too is that the 1000 USD could be exactly what you need to get the most basic things to survive. It will not be that much, because that's what everyone receives anyway. Every person that works will get additional money for luxury good or better survival stuff (better food, etc.).

I think it would be compatible with all kinds of ideology, because it's not raising taxes having anyone taking something away from working people (who would most likely earn more, because of inflation), but also not like we don't care about poor people.

What do you think?


EDIT: Looks like some people didn't read it. So a tldr: I am not talking about some weird for of socialism, where everyone just gets money or something like that, but where you print an additional 1000 USD for every citizen, no matter whether he is bill gates or living on the street. This isn't financed through taxes and doesn't change the social system, property or whatever. Money is being devalued, but not in a different way from the way it is printed now, just in bigger amounts.
18  Economy / Goods / Re: Get Humble Bundle cheaper, support EFF. on: November 09, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
Okay, for now things are a bit stressy. So for now I won't take any more Bitcoins. Thanks to all of you! Smiley
19  Economy / Economics / Re: EU/US: Need for explenation on: November 04, 2012, 08:47:25 PM
Okay, here some reflection of things. These are all just opinions and I share them, because it would be nice to hear of other thoughts. Maybe I am completely wrong here
...

The thing is that I am quite individualist,
...
 I know, some people call it theoretical/philosophical Anarchism and maybe that would fit it, but wouldn't it be the same as saying that I prefer to think for myself?

But all that thinking must require so much effort! Wouldn't it be so much easier if one could just follow a group with a simple set of rules that tells you what is good and bad? How about: avoid coercion. No way anyone could mix that one up Wink

Right. Yeah, I sometimes worry about being a coward about taking positions, but I also really can't completely agree on whatever philosophy one might share and since I can't come up with something on my own, I'll just continue to write such postings. Wink

Quote
Quote
...
extremism.
...
I think capitalism suffers from this. You know, for one it's just about free markets, being a tool on which to build upon,
...
And for extremists it can mean, that only the capital counts.

Well, it certainly seems that many US people suffer from black-and-white concrete thinking. Zero compromise, zero shades of grey. I wonder if, when the USSR was disintegrating in the late 1980s, they had any patriotic Russians who were convinced that "what this place really needs is more Communism, not less!" ? When people are convinced that they are right, they're likely to fall into a vicious circle where they keep repeating the same mistake. Unless, they are able to think.

I think many people suffer from this in general, not just in the US (or for being capitalist or whatever). I just think people who love freedom simply can get along better (and actually are doing so so in many places, like here) than what one would actually think when you look at how much they argue about such tiny differences in their opinions.

Quote
Quote
...I doubt that someone who maybe does so really wants to make money off poverty. The argument usually is like "someone else would do it" or that you can't forbid it, because it's freedom. But not being able to do so despite of everything doesn't sound like freedom to me.

What?! Freedom for the little people?! You don't sound like a wealthy, land-owning Libertarian farmer! Imposter! Get him! Cheesy

*gulp* You got me!

I really considered to buy land on the moon as a child though. Does that count? Wink
20  Economy / Economics / Re: EU/US: Need for explenation on: November 04, 2012, 08:33:43 PM

[snip]


Your need to classify those who don't agree with your position as mentally ill is very revealing.

Erm... you shouldn't snip everything if you make such accusations. And I always thought even mentally ill people can be right about things, so that statement doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

In a way I think that everyone who doesn't completely resign for rational reasons, has to be kinda insane, but I guess that doesn't really count, because that brings everyone here on the same level. Wink

If I missed something, please show me!

Also I am curious on what you consider to be my position and what I reveal.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!