Thanks to Timelord2o67, owlcatz and everyone for their replies to my post and for trying to make sense of it all.

I understand some here sympathize with yogg, even considering offering a helping hand. We are humans and this is a human reaction. I personally wouldn't offer any help whatsoever to this person, but, IMHO, any help offered should be strictly NON-monetary.

Hope this mess gets sorted out to a degree, although I very much doubt card holders can be made whole, considering the loans, premiums, and that the stolen funds have probably already been gambled away...

What a shitshow indeed!  

I've been following the ColdKey/yogg developments with interest since cygan posted an invitation to WO members to buy WOhat-decorated ColdKeys.

First off, I'm deeply sorry for all those affected by the scammer and lost BTC, loans, premiums and the value of their ColdKeys as collectibles. I'm not a collector myself, have never owned any such cards, and have never even heard of yogg or any of the forum members in the collectibles space.

After reading the conversation between yogg and owlcatz, I must say that this man should not receive ANY sympathy whatsoever from you guys. NONE! I saw a man who did not display any genuine regret/remorse about what he did, never offered to return (even part of) the stolen funds to their rightful owners, didn't even dare to make a post here in the forum explaining what happened, and threw cynical responses to owlcatz, such as "make me" and "write to my attorney". Based on the evidence presented here in this and other threads, yogg continued swiping cards even after his conversation with owlcatz where he stated that all remaining cards were safe. This makes him a liar and a thief.

Sadly, this project has failed due to the actions of a weak man who sold his name and reputation for $50k. Cruel as it may sound, I don't think such a fraudster, liar and thief deserves any sympathy whatsoever. Let his suffering be his punishment for what he did to all of you and to the Bitcoin community.

The way I see it:

- ALL ColdKey cards should be considered as compromised and should be peeled/swiped.

- I would not put my hopes up for legal action, but those with the energy to pursue it could give it a try.

- I believe that collectibles like ColdKey, which rely on trusting a human being (the creator) to discard the keys after creating the items, go fundamentally against the Bitcoin ethos and principles. Bitcoin was created to address exactly these problems, and it has succeeded -- this is what makes Bitcoin what it is. Collectible items that rely on trusting an individual for the security of funds, essentially and in principle negate this all-important property of Bitcoin. "Don't trust, verify." becomes "Trust and hope not to get scammed." I'm not sure if I would consider such a collectible item to be a true representation of Bitcoin and what it stands for.

Big kudos to cygan for promising to compensate ColdKey holders, and delivering on that promise. He got dragged into this mess and is doing his best to rectify the situation.

As a final thought, I would suggest the creation of collectibles in which the artwork itself would be the valuable part, and there would NOT be any private keys inserted in them by the creator. The artist could include a region on/inside the piece, where the final owner can place his/her own private key that only he/she knows. There could even be a mechanism for this, but it must be shipped blank and be reconfigurable by the final owner. Something like a collectible version of Cryptosteel. In my view, this type of collectible would stay true to the ethos and principles of Bitcoin while being fully secure against scams like yogg's.

I'd call it a dead alpaca bounce. Just look at that neck!

Regarding ColdKey, the project may look cool and satisfy some coiners' egos or whatever, but from the very beginning it was an idea based on trusting the creator, which is an instant no-no when it comes to Bitcoin. I personally would not trust my keys to anyone (not even my parents or siblings or GF/wife or whoever else). Not because I don't love them or trust them in the general sense. But it is a fact that all of us are human beings and are thus prone to mistakes and weaknesses, which can lead to compromising the security of whatever it is we want to protect.

When it comes to Bitcoin, you keep a low profile, NEVER reveal your keys to ANYONE, never advertise specific amounts or even ownership of any coins, never brag about how rich you are, and never compromise your OPSEC.

There's no need for ColdKeys. The best ColdKey is stored in our neurons, and should stay in there, and stay immaterial. Just like Bitcoin.

That's nice.

The 5-min chart right now looks like your avatar, kind of.

Just to clarify, the Huawei P30 Pro includes Google Services, so you don't want that. You'll need to get any model after the P30 Pro (check to make sure). They are de-Googled by design, and you get the benefit of having a newer, better phone too. They do have Chinese versions of the equivalent services though (Petal Maps, Huawei AppGallery, etc.), so there's that. Not even sure if one can really avoid the Big Brother these days... 1984!

My P30 Pro is the best smartphone I've ever owned. The only "issue" with Huawei phones is that the latest models don't support Google Services (Play Store, Maps, YouTube, etc.). In fact, the P30 Pro is the last phone that is allowed to use them. This can be a big issue for many. There are some solutions to this, but the user experience is lacking compared to the real thing.

Yes, very true. There are people who just have to own the latest iPhone, but not for the tech or innovation, but mainly to show off to others how cool they are. Phone case manufacturers even put holes on the back of their iPhone cases to show off the Apple logo. I have colleagues who are quite poor and in debt, yet still buy $1000+ iPhones/Androids every year using monthly installments (no cash to pay upfront). It's just so sad to have to own an iPhone to feel cool...

I'm not as extreme as you, but close. I always buy new phones, and quite expensive ones, but I keep them for a very long time -- basically until they either die or can't do what I want. I currently have a Huawei P30 Pro (bought new for $900 in 2019). After 3.5 years it still feels like new, battery also feels like new (I'm quite puzzled by this -- how is there no degradation after 3.5 years?), its specs are great (AMOLED, 8 GB RAM / 256 GB storage), and its cameras are awesome (5x optical zoom, ultra-wide, good s/w). The way I see it, this phone should last for at least 3 more years. Still receiving security updates.

Not the same for everyone, but I would agree that $10M or more would be a reason to quit a job you don't like and self-retire early. In many countries, one can be self-insured by paying the government a monthly amount, which allows one to be unemployed but stay insured and receive the same benefits (medical, future pension, etc.) as a fully employed person. Of course, one has to be able to keep paying for 15 years (in ivomm's case), which cannot be guaranteed (as things stand now) by a small Bitcoin stash. With Bitcoin price hovering in the $17k region, one would need to have 589+ BTC to be able to securely self-retire with the equivalent of $10M+ of fiat. The fewer coins one has, the riskier it gets. Sometimes life makes these choices for us, e.g., being a coiner and losing your job enables/forces you to take more risks in attempting to use your coins to survive. But having a decent job makes it more difficult to quit (and increase risk), unless you have lots of coins (which reduce risk).

I don't agree with ivomm's "easy come, easy go" comment for someone's Bitcoin wealth. It depends on the individual. If you can't control your finances and are desperately craving to live the high life, then sure, you can spend millions in one year and lose everything. But it's not the same for everyone. I still own a Toyota, while I can easily buy a much more expensive car. But I don't need to. My priorities are different.

Taking into account that the above mentioned number of 589+ BTC will very likely drop significantly as Bitcoin price rises in the (near) future, HoDLing and/or DCA'ing becomes all the more important strategy for many of us low- to mid-level marine species out there. At a price of $100k+ (say, sometime in 2025), that number becomes 100- BTC, which makes things much easier for many of us.

Looking fwd to 2027+, when we will have so much fun reading these posts...  

Good post from Jay...

I'm also in favor of DCA and would recommend it to noobs (and everyone, really).

Having said that, and knowing what I know now about this space, and considering the current Bitcoin price and time point relative to the Halvings, I'd say to the brave ones to go all-in, if they have the guts. Had I gone all-in back in 2015 when I started, my stash would now be at least 10 times larger.

But yeah, DCA is the safest approach. Win-win really.

I'm not against improvements to the Bitcoin protocol, changes to the code, additions of features, changes of block size as and when needed, security improvements, etc. All this is welcome and even essential to maintaining the viability of the protocol. It is already happening and will continue to happen in the future, and that's a good thing. But taking ownership of coins without having the private keys (effectively bypassing the very algorithm that secures our coins in the blockchain) is VERY dangerous business and (IMHO) should NEVER happen.

If what you have suggested (taking ownership of coins by hard-coded bypassing of the private keys and rewarding miners) ever happens, then what's going to stop Craig S. Wright from taking the Core developers to court (again and again, until he wins), demanding they transfer ownership of Satoshi's coins (or any other coins) to him because of "reasons". Sooner or later, a tech-illiterate judge will cave in and legally award CSW ownership of a boatload of coins, and thus force Core devs to change the code to transfer ownership to him. If the Core devs have already done this for rewarding the miners, this sets a dangerous precedent that the judicial system can use every time TPTB want to confiscate any coins they decide should not belong to the private key holders. IOW, there may be a time when our hard-earned coins end up being "coded out" of our wallets without our consent, without needing our private keys, and for whatever reason. This should NEVER be allowed to happen.

If Michael Saylor loses his private keys, his 100,000+ BTC will be gone. And they should be gone. There should be absolutely no way to bypass the algorithm and regain ownership of any coins without the private keys that secure said coins. If this is ever allowed to occur, it will mark the end of Bitcoin as an immutable, trustless, unconfiscatable store of value.

If this ever happens, it will be the end of Bitcoin.

Very interesting. Thanks.

Agree. It looks more like a boating accident to me. If LukeJr has lost 200+ BTC in that way, what hope is there for the average tech-illiterate coiner?

Made me check my cold wallet balances. It's all there.

There's no need to perform Fourier analysis on the data in that picture, to see that the fundamental period of Bitcoin's clock is 4 years / cycle...

Yet, there are still (always will be) self-proclaimed "market analysts" who keep on drawing lines on graphs and performing all sorts of magic tricks and numerology, trying desperately to predict Bitcoin's short-term price movement. Good luck to them, and to those who believe them. For the rest of us, 4 years / cycle is all we need to know.

HoDL.

The Washington Post — The Google engineer who thinks the company’s AI has come to life

Some of Blake Lemoine's conversations with LaMDA here:

Is LaMDA Sentient? — an Interview

I think this is going to get exponentially bigger in the (near?) future.

Happy New Year,   guys 'n' gals!

Stay healthy (a sick coiner is no fun), stay crazy (you wouldn't be here otherwise), keep batslapping/rustypiping the no/shitcoiners, and FFS, stay OFF-topic!

This is WO, this is how we like it, this is fine!

I agree. Scenarios 2 and 3 are the most probable, with 3 being the one I'm preparing myself for. As for the years he mentions (for 2 and 3), I believe they are spot on (i.e., ATH in late 2024 and mega-bull in 2025). Scenario 1's ATH/bull of 2029-2030 is far too bearish and will be a total break from the 4-year cycle.

We are talking about 2-3 years of waiting, which is nothing really. And if scenario 3 is the one that plays out, 2023 will be the perfect year to accumulate cheap corn.

Adding to Antisthenes' list of privacy tools:

VeraCrypt — A free, open-source (any closed-source encryption tool should be considered as compromised) encryption software for Windows, Mac OSX and Linux.