What happens to miscopied transactions?

[Bizmark13]

Sure feels strange to be posting here again since I'm definitely not a newbie anymore but I can't really think of anywhere else to post this question.

That being said, any mods can feel free to move this thread.

A few weeks ago, my parents received a $10,000 transaction into their bank account which they weren't expecting. Of course, they did the responsible thing and phoned the bank who then informed the person who had deposited the money of their mistake. What was suspected and eventually confirmed was that either the sender had written (or typed) the wrong bank account number or there was a mistake during processing and the funds were sent to the wrong account. The transaction was eventually taken back and the $10,000 disappeared from the account.

Now, I know that mistyping a Bitcoin address is highly unlikely since there is a checksum associated with every Bitcoin address which allows the client to detect invalid addresses and prevent coins from being sent to these addresses. Hence the title is "miscopied" and not "mistyped".

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely), then how will such mistakes be handled when Bitcoin's transaction frequency approaches that of the current fiat system?

[notlist3d]

Sure feels strange to be posting here again since I'm definitely not a newbie anymore but I can't really think of anywhere else to post this question.

A few weeks ago, my parents received a $10,000 transaction into their bank account which they weren't expecting. Of course, they did the responsible thing and phoned the bank who then informed the person who had deposited the money of their mistake. What was suspected and eventually confirmed was that either the sender had written (or typed) the wrong bank account number or there was a mistake during processing and the funds were sent to the wrong account. The transaction was eventually taken back and the $10,000 disappeared from the account.

Now, I know that mistyping a Bitcoin address is highly unlikely since there is a checksum associated with every Bitcoin address which allows the client to detect invalid addresses and prevent coins from being sent to these addresses. Hence the title is "miscopied" and not "mistyped".

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely), then how will such mistakes be handled when Bitcoin's transaction frequency approaches that of the current fiat system?

You would have very little recourse.  Assuming you can find the owner of the address (which in some cases is impossible), they really don't have a obligation to give it back.  If they are a nice person and believe in karma sure they will send it back. 

But sadly I think in alot/most cases it will stay in the wrong account.  And there is no "chargeback" or recourse as person who sent it.  It is just not treated like fiat as far as being able to retrieve it after being sent on accident.

[Bizmark13]

You would have very little recourse.  Assuming you can find the owner of the address (which in some cases is impossible), they really don't have a obligation to give it back.  If they are a nice person and believe in karma sure they will send it back. 

But sadly I think in alot/most cases it will stay in the wrong account.  And there is no "chargeback" or recourse as person who sent it.  It is just not treated like fiat as far as being able to retrieve it after being sent on accident.

Yeah, I was expecting an answer like that. It does seem to be a fundamental flaw in regards to Bitcoin's suitability as a mainstream currency which I can't really see as being solvable as long as Bitcoin continues to remain decentralized and trustless (although I also believe the fact that it is decentralized and trustless outweighs the negatives of making it not so). It's not really a technical problem, since the program is doing exactly what you tell it to do. Only problem is, humans tend to make mistakes as the example I gave in the OP shows.

Perhaps as a preventative measure, any large transactions in the future will be done not all at once but in a series of small steps, with the other party confirming multiple times along the way that the coins were indeed successfully received. That's the only real solution I can think of.

[notlist3d]

You would have very little recourse.  Assuming you can find the owner of the address (which in some cases is impossible), they really don't have a obligation to give it back.  If they are a nice person and believe in karma sure they will send it back. 

But sadly I think in alot/most cases it will stay in the wrong account.  And there is no "chargeback" or recourse as person who sent it.  It is just not treated like fiat as far as being able to retrieve it after being sent on accident.

Yeah, I was expecting an answer like that. It does seem to be a fundamental flaw in regards to Bitcoin's suitability as a mainstream currency which I can't really see as being solvable as long as Bitcoin continues to remain decentralized and trustless (although I also believe the fact that it is decentralized and trustless outweighs the negatives of making it not so). It's not really a technical problem, since the program is doing exactly what you tell it to do. Only problem is, humans tend to make mistakes as the example I gave in the OP shows.

Perhaps as a preventative measure, any large transactions in the future will be done not all at once but in a series of small steps, with the other party confirming multiple times along the way that the coins were indeed successfully received. That's the only real solution I can think of.

With bitcoin there is no one that can reverse a transaction.  That will never change.  I don't know if that is a flaw, as you could use escrow/other means if you need to have someone moderate a deal.

As far as best way to prevent it is to double/triple check address.  With it not allowing a invalid address that helps a lot that would be one letter short or something.  But always when sending look at the address and make sure it's correct.

[odolvlobo]

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely)  ...

Why do you think it is highly unlikely that the coins would be returned? If somebody accidentally sent you money and asked for it back, you would return it wouldn't you? Or, are you a scumbag?

Anyway, the chances of entering an address with a typo that has a valid checksum are 1 in 4 billion. It will be extremely rare, even with widespread adoption.

[shorena]

Yeah, I was expecting an answer like that. It does seem to be a fundamental flaw in regards to Bitcoin's suitability as a mainstream currency which I can't really see as being solvable as long as Bitcoin continues to remain decentralized and trustless (although I also believe the fact that it is decentralized and trustless outweighs the negatives of making it not so). It's not really a technical problem, since the program is doing exactly what you tell it to do. Only problem is, humans tend to make mistakes as the example I gave in the OP shows.

Perhaps as a preventative measure, any large transactions in the future will be done not all at once but in a series of small steps, with the other party confirming multiple times along the way that the coins were indeed successfully received. That's the only real solution I can think of.

Firstly its still possible for the person to receive the bitcoin to do the right thing. Secondly I dont think you just copy a random address into your clipboard. Thus the chance is very high that you had contact with the person the address belongs to. There used to be a "lost and found" thread here, but I think its dormant because its barley needed.

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely)  ...

Why do you think it is highly unlikely that the coins would be returned? If somebody accidentally sent you money and asked for it back, you would return it wouldn't you? Or, are you a scumbag?

I think it depends. E.g. if someone is sending a small amount to my nodes donation address I wouldnt question it. If the address would receive 2 BTC I would certainly try to get in touch with the sender though. Its probably a matter of proportion and what you expect to happen.

[Amph]

Sure feels strange to be posting here again since I'm definitely not a newbie anymore but I can't really think of anywhere else to post this question.

That being said, any mods can feel free to move this thread.

A few weeks ago, my parents received a $10,000 transaction into their bank account which they weren't expecting. Of course, they did the responsible thing and phoned the bank who then informed the person who had deposited the money of their mistake. What was suspected and eventually confirmed was that either the sender had written (or typed) the wrong bank account number or there was a mistake during processing and the funds were sent to the wrong account. The transaction was eventually taken back and the $10,000 disappeared from the account.

Now, I know that mistyping a Bitcoin address is highly unlikely since there is a checksum associated with every Bitcoin address which allows the client to detect invalid addresses and prevent coins from being sent to these addresses. Hence the title is "miscopied" and not "mistyped".

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely), then how will such mistakes be handled when Bitcoin's transaction frequency approaches that of the current fiat system?

there is definitely more problems in trusting someone with bitcoin than fiat, because of the non-reversible possibility of the transaction, bitcoin can adopt a in-build escrow in the client for resolve those issues

an intermediary is necessary at the end no matter what system do you have, but i prefer that this intermediary is a 100% bot not controlled by anyone

[Bizmark13]

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely)  ...

Why do you think it is highly unlikely that the coins would be returned? If somebody accidentally sent you money and asked for it back, you would return it wouldn't you? Or, are you a scumbag?

Anyway, the chances of entering an address with a typo that has a valid checksum are 1 in 4 billion. It will be extremely rare, even with widespread adoption.

It's obvious that there are many people out there who would not return money that was mistakenly sent to them. It's also possible that you could accidentally send coins to an address that is no longer maintained but is still valid. e.g. a defunct exchange's deposit address.

As for your second point, I don't mean a typo, hence the reason why the title is "miscopied" rather than "mistyped". I understand that there is a checksum which prevents sending to an invalid address. The scenario which I had in mind was sending to a valid but inappropriate address. For example, if I owned a business with a list of customers and I accidentally copied Bob's address instead of Bill's. Then the coins that should have been sent to Bill would now be owned by Bob. If Bob was a nice person, then he would send the coins back to me or alternatively, to Bill. But there is no guarantee that Bob is a nice person.

[Blazr]

What happens when you accidentally give someone too much cash, or you accidentally give the cash to the wrong person?

The situation is similar with Bitcoin. In many ways, Bitcoin should be treated like cash. You need to double check that you are giving your Bitcoin to the intended person (sending to the right Bitcoin address) and that you are always sending the right amount.

[Amph]

What happens when you actually give someone too much cash, or you accidentally give the cash to the wrong person?

The situation is similar with Bitcoin. In many ways, Bitcoin should be treated like cash. You need to double check that you are giving your Bitcoin to the intended person (sending to the right Bitcoin address) and that you are always sending the right amount.

bitcoin it also asks you before sending anything, so it's even safer than cash in this regard, with cash there aren't the windows that pop up and say "you are sending ec...." or something

[Blazr]

bitcoin it also asks you before sending anything, so it's even safer than cash in this regard, with cash there aren't the windows that pop up and say "you are sending ec...." or something

They are supposed to. I think it is even part of a BIP, but some clients don't do this for whatever reason. Blockchain.info/wallet doesn't when you use "Quick Send" for example.

They really need to change that, it's very dangerous. It sends it the second you hit the "Send Payment" button, which could even accidentally happen.

[Amph]

bitcoin it also asks you before sending anything, so it's even safer than cash in this regard, with cash there aren't the windows that pop up and say "you are sending ec...." or something

They are supposed to. I think it is even part of a BIP, but some clients don't do this for whatever reason. Blockchain.info/wallet doesn't when you use "Quick Send" for example.

They really need to change that, it's very dangerous. It sends it the second you hit the "Send Payment" button, which could even accidentally happen.

one thing that annoys me about this, is that the mouse cursor after you entered the "send tab", it go automatically on the send button... they should fix this, because some noobs can click accidentally two times...

[odolvlobo]

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely)  ...

Why do you think it is highly unlikely that the coins would be returned? If somebody accidentally sent you money and asked for it back, you would return it wouldn't you? Or, are you a scumbag?

It's obvious that there are many people out there who would not return money that was mistakenly sent to them. It's also possible that you could accidentally send coins to an address that is no longer maintained but is still valid. e.g. a defunct exchange's deposit address.

As for your second point, I don't mean a typo, hence the reason why the title is "miscopied" rather than "mistyped". I understand that there is a checksum which prevents sending to an invalid address. The scenario which I had in mind was sending to a valid but inappropriate address. For example, if I owned a business with a list of customers and I accidentally copied Bob's address instead of Bill's. Then the coins that should have been sent to Bill would now be owned by Bob. If Bob was a nice person, then he would send the coins back to me or alternatively, to Bill. But there is no guarantee that Bob is a nice person.

If it is "highly unlikely" that Bob is not a nice person, then you are dealing with the wrong people. You need new friends and associates if they are "highly unlikely" to be decent people.

I guess we live in different worlds. In my world:

Me: "Hey I accidentally gave you some money."
Bob: "Yeah, I wondered where that came from. Here you go."

[notlist3d]

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely)  ...

Why do you think it is highly unlikely that the coins would be returned? If somebody accidentally sent you money and asked for it back, you would return it wouldn't you? Or, are you a scumbag?

Anyway, the chances of entering an address with a typo that has a valid checksum are 1 in 4 billion. It will be extremely rare, even with widespread adoption.

I just think the worst.  There is a entire forum thread on scams.   Sadly I think a lot would keep the coins.    I personally would give back, as I care about my reputation.

But a lot I think would just diappear with coins.  And some address would be very hard to find out who owns it.  Since they don't really have a name tying them to owner it's hard to say chances of even knowing who owns the address the person would have sent to.

[r3wt]

What would happen if someone copied the wrong address into their client and sent coins? Well I know the answer to that. Obviously, the coins would be sent to the wrong account. But then what? What recourse would the sender have to correct the error and if there is no recourse other than tracking down the recipient and convincing them to send the coins back (highly unlikely)  ...

Why do you think it is highly unlikely that the coins would be returned? If somebody accidentally sent you money and asked for it back, you would return it wouldn't you? Or, are you a scumbag?

It's obvious that there are many people out there who would not return money that was mistakenly sent to them. It's also possible that you could accidentally send coins to an address that is no longer maintained but is still valid. e.g. a defunct exchange's deposit address.

As for your second point, I don't mean a typo, hence the reason why the title is "miscopied" rather than "mistyped". I understand that there is a checksum which prevents sending to an invalid address. The scenario which I had in mind was sending to a valid but inappropriate address. For example, if I owned a business with a list of customers and I accidentally copied Bob's address instead of Bill's. Then the coins that should have been sent to Bill would now be owned by Bob. If Bob was a nice person, then he would send the coins back to me or alternatively, to Bill. But there is no guarantee that Bob is a nice person.

If it is "highly unlikely" that Bob is not a nice person, then you are dealing with the wrong people. You need new friends and associates if they are "highly unlikely" to be decent people.

I guess we live in different worlds. In my world:

Me: "Hey I accidentally gave you some money."
Bob: "Yeah, I wondered where that came from. Here you go."

This is bitcoin though. Nice people are few and far between

[DannyHamilton]

It's happened in the past. I've done it myself.

Sometimes the sender gets the money back.  Sometimes they don't.

Generally, the sender has to have gotten the address from somewhere.  Typically it is accidentally copied from somewhere they previously sent to, therefore they already have a business relationship with the person they accidentally send to.