No House Edge?

[dooglus]

Then again, it is not likely for you as a once a month gambler to actually feel the 0,5% house edge. This is something you notice after a lot of runs. If you only go once in a while, variance will take over and you may even end up winning or losing big.

People overestimate the effect of the house edge all the time. For example, just a couple of posts ago:

Thanks for putting it in numbers, always helps a ton!

So you always lose out, no matter the structure.

The house edge doesn't mean players always lose. It just means they will lose if they play too much, but it can take a very long time for it to happen.

On Just-Dice.com we have a 1% house edge, and take over a million bets per day, and yet over the last month the house had made a loss. The players, in aggregate, have been beating the house:



Here we see that over the last 6 weeks the site's profit has fallen slightly while the expected profit (1% of the amount wagered) has risen by 15,000 (CLAMS). In other words we have taken bets worth around 1.5 million CLAM (over $1.5 million), and the house edge hasn't "kicked in" at all.

Over the 6 months that the site has been running, on the other hand, the site has made a profit. That profit is 1.13% of all the coins that have been wagered, so it's running pretty close to expectation.

But over the last month the players have beaten the house edge, on a no-skill game, 1% house edge game.

[fox19891989]

Then again, it is not likely for you as a once a month gambler to actually feel the 0,5% house edge. This is something you notice after a lot of runs. If you only go once in a while, variance will take over and you may even end up winning or losing big.

People overestimate the effect of the house edge all the time. For example, just a couple of posts ago:

Thanks for putting it in numbers, always helps a ton!

So you always lose out, no matter the structure.

The house edge doesn't mean players always lose. It just means they will lose if they play too much, but it can take a very long time for it to happen.

On Just-Dice.com we have a 1% house edge, and take over a million bets per day, and yet over the last month the house had made a loss. The players, in aggregate, have been beating the house:



Here we see that over the last 6 weeks the site's profit has fallen slightly while the expected profit (1% of the amount wagered) has risen by 15,000 (CLAMS). In other words we have taken bets worth around 1.5 million CLAM (over $1.5 million), and the house edge hasn't "kicked in" at all.

Over the 6 months that the site has been running, on the other hand, the site has made a profit. That profit is 1.13% of all the coins that have been wagered, so it's running pretty close to expectation.

But over the last month the players have beaten the house edge, on a no-skill game, 1% house edge game.

Wow, cool, it is a clear graph, and we can see the details about your site, 1.13% real profit of bet is good, better than 1% expect return, so in long term, you can make more money than expect, unless some whales eat your house.

[dooglus]

Wow, cool, it is a clear graph, and we can see the details about your site, 1.13% real profit of bet is good, better than 1% expect return, so in long term, you can make more money than expect, unless some whales eat your house.

You can make more than expected, but you can also make less than expected. Just-Dice used to accept Bitcoin, and ran for a year doing so. Over that period it kept something like 0.35% of the amount wagered. The house edge was 1%, so it only did about a third as well as expected. For a while the profit was even negative. So again, that's more evidence that the house edge really only has its effect in the very long term and casual casino players probably won't even notice it if they don't play much. Of course if they're playing games with a huge house edge (national lotteries are a good example, typically paying out 50% of so to players) then they'll notice the effect of the house edge much sooner.

[DogecoinMachine]

We, at Crypto-Games  are currently offering 0% House edge for 12 Hours!

[fox19891989]

Wow, cool, it is a clear graph, and we can see the details about your site, 1.13% real profit of bet is good, better than 1% expect return, so in long term, you can make more money than expect, unless some whales eat your house.

You can make more than expected, but you can also make less than expected. Just-Dice used to accept Bitcoin, and ran for a year doing so. Over that period it kept something like 0.35% of the amount wagered. The house edge was 1%, so it only did about a third as well as expected. For a while the profit was even negative. So again, that's more evidence that the house edge really only has its effect in the very long term and casual casino players probably won't even notice it if they don't play much. Of course if they're playing games with a huge house edge (national lotteries are a good example, typically paying out 50% of so to players) then they'll notice the effect of the house edge much sooner.

How do you think primedice? I think their profits are higher than 1%, maybe 2%, because many people have complaint they won small bets but lost big bets on PD, so I guess PD may have a great return, at least is higher than 1%.

[shanem]

We, at Crypto-Games  are currently offering 0% House edge for 12 Hours!

This is the 1st time I have heard of 0% house edge.
We should support sites with the least house edge even if it is temporary.

[a1choi]

We, at Crypto-Games  are currently offering 0% House edge for 12 Hours!

This is the 1st time I have heard of 0% house edge.
We should support sites with the least house edge even if it is temporary.

interesting to see someone do this. would love to see if traffic jumped up and if the house was on the right side of lucky.

I did a write up of 0% house edge gambling and how it will be profitable

"a combination of display advertising, paid accounts for premium features, leveraging their users to cross sell other products, data selling and things we have not even thought of yet. Social gaming providers such as Zynga that offer play money gambling have found ways to make a very nice return without making anything of the games themselves.

Think of how many users would be attracted to a gambling service that offers all the same sports betting, poker and casino products people use now but where the users break even on average and it is available to everyone in the world. There are many ways to monetise an audience of that scale."

i dont think bitcoin casino's or online casinos will ever go to 0%.  Its just a bad business practice.  Zynga gaming and real-gaming are completely different experiences, and they work with very different markets.  We'll see other innovations in the market, but a race to 0% is not feasible.

[DogecoinMachine]

We, at Crypto-Games  are currently offering 0% House edge for 12 Hours!

This is the 1st time I have heard of 0% house edge.
We should support sites with the least house edge even if it is temporary.

interesting to see someone do this. would love to see if traffic jumped up and if the house was on the right side of lucky.

Traffic jumped for 100%, couple of deposits extra, can't say about profit, because users have funds on accounts, so they can win more/cashout/lose...

[dooglus]

How do you think primedice? I think their profits are higher than 1%, maybe 2%, because many people have complaint they won small bets but lost big bets on PD, so I guess PD may have a great return, at least is higher than 1%.

People complain that they lose more when they bet bigger, but I don't give them much credence.

PrimeDice is provably fair, so it should be easy enough to prove they are cheating if they are, but nobody ever does.

I'm sure their profit higher than 1%, since many gamblers are greedy

Dice isn't a game of skill. Things like "greed" don't change the outcome. The house edge is 1%, so they can expect to win 1% of the amount wagered. It makes no difference whether the bets are placed by a greedy human or a cold-hearted robot (or even a cold-hearted robot programmed by a greedy human), the math doesn't care.

Furthermore, few gamblers are using dangerous way to win like bet all-in with low multiplier or using martingale

All bets have the same house edge and hence the same 1% expected profit. "dangerous" is like "greedy" - it doesn't change expectation.

They often make many giveaway which proof they have great profit

1% of the amount wagered is plenty to be able to afford to pay for promotion. 1% of hundreds of millions of dollars is millions of dollars.

Just-Dice "gives away" 90% of its profits to the people bankrolling the site. That happens no matter whether the profits are 0.1% or 10% of turnover and so proves nothing about the profitability of the site.

[omahapoker]

i'm still looking for the 4%-5% house edge dice sites.



all the sites i play at i win everytime at safedice.