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Author Topic: Question about SegWit  (Read 3103 times)
achow101
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March 30, 2016, 04:45:36 PM
 #21

This is not correct, right?  Miners (and relay nodes running new software) will have to include the signatures in the extension part of the block and send the whole block out to other miners (and to relay nodes running new software).  The extension record can be omitted only when a miner or relay node sends a block to a simple client.  Right?
Yes, you are mostly correct. The witness data is sent to nodes that have the proper service bit set. When segwit activates, nearly all of the miners will have this bit set so they will be receiving all of the witness data. The data will be omitted if the node doesn't have that service bit.

I understood that the miners would have to validate the signature "extension" to guard against attempts to hijack the payment. Because of this, all miners would have to support segwit. However, they don't include the signature data in the mined block ( if they did it would be even larger than current sizes). They don't need to re-transmit the signature data, and probably won't as the extra processing time could lead to their block being orphaned. The signature data is validated by archive nodes, and other miners of course, and if it is invalid, then the block will not be accepted. I think it is optional if a wallet holder wants to run a pruned node, a full node, or a full node with archiving.
No. You are incorrect. The signatures are required to validate a block. Full nodes need that data in order to verify the block. If the node announces that it supports segwit, then it will receive the witnesses to validate them. It is not optional for any full node. For reference, a full node is any node which fully verifies all transactions and blocks it receives. This includes pruned nodes and "archiving" nodes.

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March 30, 2016, 05:40:20 PM
 #22

But not all nodes will update to recognise segwit. If a non segwit node receives the two records that signify a segwith transaction, then won't it accept the payment record, but reject the signature record as an invalid type. It will accept the payment record as valid because the signature will be blank ie. anybody can receive.

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achow101
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March 30, 2016, 07:25:56 PM
 #23

But not all nodes will update to recognise segwit. If a non segwit node receives the two records that signify a segwith transaction, then won't it accept the payment record, but reject the signature record as an invalid type. It will accept the payment record as valid because the signature will be blank ie. anybody can receive.
Yes, but for a full node that is segwit capable, it WILL receive the witness data. Once segwit updates, running a full node without segwit should not be optional and is less secure since that node cannot verify the signatures of segwit transactions.

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March 31, 2016, 05:30:40 AM
 #24

But not all nodes will update to recognise segwit. If a non segwit node receives the two records that signify a segwith transaction, then won't it accept the payment record, but reject the signature record as an invalid type. It will accept the payment record as valid because the signature will be blank ie. anybody can receive.
Yes, but for a full node that is segwit capable, it WILL receive the witness data. Once segwit updates, running a full node without segwit should not be optional and is less secure since that node cannot verify the signatures of segwit transactions.

I agree, and I believe it is effectively mandatory for miners to run segwit nodes. The beauty of segwit is that is is not a requirement to update a node to be able to use a core wallet. You can't verify the signature of course, but you can still receive a segwit transaction and accept the payment as an "anyone can spend" transaction. The signature has to be completely blank, so it can't be hijacked through the base transaction, and a segwit node will verify the signature record for you. I assume that if one wants to update from an old version of core to a segwit version, one will have to update the latter part of the blockchain to include the signature blocks.

I've only seen the 50% discount on transaction fees mentioned in one place. Is this definately going to be an incentive to update to a core segwit capable node?

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April 01, 2016, 04:01:36 PM
 #25

Should I ever hope to be paid for being a full node with archive?
no.
there is no person in this universe who has reasons pay you just for holding a node

From what I understand , one of the benefits of the LN payment channel is that it can act as a means to incentivize and cover the costs(potentially even profit)off of running a full node.
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April 01, 2016, 06:49:35 PM
 #26

Should I ever hope to be paid for being a full node with archive?
no.
there is no person in this universe who has reasons pay you just for holding a node

From what I understand , one of the benefits of the LN payment channel is that it can act as a means to incentivize and cover the costs(potentially even profit)off of running a full node.

Indeed, if payments do not need to be committed to the blockchain, this opens up possibility for non-miners to collect fees.

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April 02, 2016, 06:10:27 AM
 #27

Should I ever hope to be paid for being a full node with archive?
no.
there is no person in this universe who has reasons pay you just for holding a node

From what I understand , one of the benefits of the LN payment channel is that it can act as a means to incentivize and cover the costs(potentially even profit)off of running a full node.

Indeed, if payments do not need to be committed to the blockchain, this opens up possibility for non-miners to collect fees.

Now, if we can get the Palestinians to act like the industrial miners... world peace soon to follow.
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