Electrum sending BTC to Random Address In Same Wallet When Making Payment

[secondw123]

Hi,

Since the latest Electrum version i encounter weird behavior from electrum when sending BTC to other wallets, the thing that happens is that - electrum send the amount i want to the other wallet (lets say payment to someone)  - but also takes a random amount of BTC from the address used (by electrum) to send the money from, and transfers that amount to some other address within my wallet (its always the same address), and by doing so, interrupting me from keeping track of the balance in my addresses.

Example:

1. I go to the send tab and send 1BTC to address "A" - Owned by someone else.
2. Electrum send BTC from address "B" (in my wallet) to address "A"
3. Electrum ALSO takes random amount from address "B" and send it to address "C" (some other address within my wallet)
4. Same thing happens every single time i make payment, address "C" is always the same address - the only thing that changes is the random amount.

Why this started happening and how can i make it stop? its REALLY annoying.

Thanks in advance!

[merelcoin]

Like nerioseole said: it's default behavior.
If you don't like it, open electrum => tools => preferences => disable "use change addresses"

However, there is no real need to do this... The change addresses help you increase your privacy (it's not foolproof, but it's a small step towards privacy)

[secondw123]

But the thing is, which i forgot to mention is that i already have "change address" set to "OFF"

And address "C" is one of the main "receiving addresses" and not a "change address"

Thats why its weird... it just started with the recent version 2.6.3, wasn't happening before

+ the amounts that being sent to address "C" often exceed the transaction itself (by amount)

for example i might send 0.1 to address "A" and the amount sent to "C" will be 4BTC....

So i don't think its exactly a change address issue...

[merelcoin]

If you have problems with a specific transaction, you're always free to post the txid, we'll try to explain what happened

[secondw123]

It all depends on which inputs are used for the transactions - and yes, the inputs have to be greater than the amount you want to send to A.  The change goes back to C, if you have set it up like that.

But again, re-using a bitcoin address more than once is asking for trouble....

But again,  change addresses option is OFF (unchecked),  + C is a main main address and not one of the "change addresses".  So how do i prevent it from happening?

I want that when i send a payment, this will be the only thing that moves from the wallet, is that possible?  (putting safety and privacy considerations aside for now

The issue happens with every transaction i make.

[secondw123]

It all depends on which inputs are used for the transactions - and yes, the inputs have to be greater than the amount you want to send to A.  The change goes back to C, if you have set it up like that.

But again, re-using a bitcoin address more than once is asking for trouble....

So how do i prevent it from happening?

Select another wallet to handle your bitcoins.

So are you saying that from version 2.6.3  it became mandatory? 

I don't recall seeing such thing in the change log, so i do believe its either some bug or some config i missed. As said, in previous versions it never happened to me after switching off the change addresses.

[merelcoin]

It all depends on which inputs are used for the transactions - and yes, the inputs have to be greater than the amount you want to send to A.  The change goes back to C, if you have set it up like that.

But again, re-using a bitcoin address more than once is asking for trouble....

But again,  change addresses is OFF,  + C is a main main address and not one of the "change addresses".  So how do i prevent it from happening?

I want that when i send a payment, this will be the only thing that moves from the wallet, is that possible?  (putting safety and privacy considerations aside for now

The issue happens with every transaction i make.

Yes and No,
If you have an input that's just a little bit bigger than the output, you can do the following
open electrum => go to the addresses-tab => right click the address you want to send from => send from

Now, you'll see a list of input tx's. Chose the Tx that's just a little bit bigger than the ammount you wish to send, type in the amount and set the fee so (fee + output amount = input amount)

If you don't have a suitable input, it's virtually impossible to send coins without receiving change back (unless you're willing to pay gigantic fees)

Now, this is the technical explanation on how to do this... HOWEVER there is no real reason for you to do this, the only thing that will happen is that your fee will be to big (you just payed to much) or to small (you'll wait a long time before your tx is confirmed)

[secondw123]

It all depends on which inputs are used for the transactions - and yes, the inputs have to be greater than the amount you want to send to A.  The change goes back to C, if you have set it up like that.

But again, re-using a bitcoin address more than once is asking for trouble....

But again,  change addresses is OFF,  + C is a main main address and not one of the "change addresses".  So how do i prevent it from happening?

I want that when i send a payment, this will be the only thing that moves from the wallet, is that possible?  (putting safety and privacy considerations aside for now

The issue happens with every transaction i make.

Yes and No,
If you have an input that's just a little bit bigger than the output, you can do the following
open electrum => go to the addresses-tab => right click the address you want to send from => send from

Now, you'll see a list of input tx's. Chose the Tx that's just a little bit bigger than the ammount you wish to send, type in the amount and set the fee so (fee + output amount = input amount)

If you don't have a suitable input, it's virtually impossible to send coins without receiving change back (unless you're willing to pay gigantic fees)

Now, this is the technical explanation on how to do this... HOWEVER there is no real reason for you to do this, the only thing that will happen is that your fee will be to big (you just payed to much) or to small (you'll wait a long time before your tx is confirmed)

Thanks i will try that!

Its very important to me to do it, the reason is that few days ago address "C" was an address that had over 3000 inputs so when a large amount of BTC was sent to it as random "change" (or whatever the reason this happens) it became unusable for me in electrum since it doesn't show balances of over 1000 inputs (most of the time at least, don't ask me why) so i had to import the private key to some other wallet and create a new electrum wallet and send the balance to it,  in short,  it causes a mess and i want it to do nothing more than what i tell it to do - like it was until this version

[merelcoin]

Thanks i will try that!

Its very important to me to do it, the reason is that few days ago address "C" was an address that had over 3000 inputs so when a large amount of BTC was sent to it as random "change" (or whatever the reason this happens) it became unusable for me in electrum since it doesn't show balances of over 1000 inputs (most of the time at least, don't ask me why) so i had to import the private key to some other wallet and create a new electrum wallet and send the balance to it,  in short,  it causes a mess and i want it to do nothing more than what i tell it to do - like it was until this version

Ah, now i get your problem.
It's strange that electrum only shows the last 1000 inputs. I'm aware that an electrum server can setup a limit for storing spent transactions tough... Maybe there's a problem with this?

Can you try this:
Double click on the green connection icon at the right bottom corner of electrum, disable "select server automatically" and select the server with the highest limit manually.

I'm not sure it'll fix your problem, but it's worth a shot

[secondw123]

limit for storing spent transactions tough... Maybe there's a problem with this?

Yes - that pretty odd, at some times electrum showed me over 1000 and sometime it would show only 1000 - 1100, is it because of server owners setting limits?

"select server automatically" and select the server with the highest limit manually.

Yap. will do that for sure next time thanks for the advice, thats why i'm trying to figure out a solution that will prevent it from happening again in the first place...

From what i understand so far, there is no solution to the change/ sending to "C" issue beside maybe roll back to older version?

[merelcoin]

Yes - that pretty odd, at some times electrum showed me over 1000 and sometime it would show only 1000 - 1100, is it because of server owners setting limits?


Yap. will do that for sure next time thanks for the advice, thats why i'm trying to figure out a solution that will prevent it from happening again in the first place...

From what i understand so far, there is no solution to the change/ sending to "C" issue beside maybe roll back to older version?

It is indeed a server owner setting... They can chose how many spent transactions per address they want to store in their leveldb. some keep this number pretty low, for space and memory considerations (remember: they're providing this service for free )

I'm not even completely sure that the previous versions wouldn't behave exactly like this... But you can indeed roll back, i'm not sure to which version tough... I think it would be wise to ask Shorena (pretty wise in the inner workings of electrum) or ThomasV (the creator of electrum).
You can find them both on this forum, and they're both pretty good people... Always remember they're giving advice/developing for free, so even if it's a bug, there's no reason to complain

[secondw123]

Yes - that pretty odd, at some times electrum showed me over 1000 and sometime it would show only 1000 - 1100, is it because of server owners setting limits?


Yap. will do that for sure next time thanks for the advice, thats why i'm trying to figure out a solution that will prevent it from happening again in the first place...

From what i understand so far, there is no solution to the change/ sending to "C" issue beside maybe roll back to older version?

It is indeed a server owner setting... They can chose how many spent transactions per address they want to store in their leveldb. some keep this number pretty low, for space and memory considerations (remember: they're providing this service for free )

I'm not even completely sure that the previous versions wouldn't behave exactly like this... But you can indeed roll back, i'm not sure to which version tough... I think it would be wise to ask Shorena (pretty wise in the inner workings of electrum) or ThomasV (the creator of electrum).
You can find them both on this forum, and they're both pretty good people... Always remember they're giving advice/developing for free, so even if it's a bug, there's no reason to complain

Thanks for help!  Is there a way i can mention ThomasV so he will be notified of this thread?

And you are correct about the free part, just want to understand if there is a way around it / bug, not expecting anything beside understanding why it wasn't until now and decided to start.
If i remember correctly it started in 2.6.3 or maybe the one before that, not sure, before that it wasn't ever happening, i am sure about that.

[altcoinhosting]

Yes - that pretty odd, at some times electrum showed me over 1000 and sometime it would show only 1000 - 1100, is it because of server owners setting limits?


Yap. will do that for sure next time thanks for the advice, thats why i'm trying to figure out a solution that will prevent it from happening again in the first place...

From what i understand so far, there is no solution to the change/ sending to "C" issue beside maybe roll back to older version?

It is indeed a server owner setting... They can chose how many spent transactions per address they want to store in their leveldb. some keep this number pretty low, for space and memory considerations (remember: they're providing this service for free )

I'm not even completely sure that the previous versions wouldn't behave exactly like this... But you can indeed roll back, i'm not sure to which version tough... I think it would be wise to ask Shorena (pretty wise in the inner workings of electrum) or ThomasV (the creator of electrum).
You can find them both on this forum, and they're both pretty good people... Always remember they're giving advice/developing for free, so even if it's a bug, there's no reason to complain

Thanks for help!  Is there a way i can mention ThomasV so he will be notified of this thread?

And you are correct about the free part, just want to understand if there is a way around it / bug, not expecting anything beside understanding why it wasn't until now and decided to start.
If i remember correctly it started in 2.6.3 or maybe the one before that, not sure, before that it wasn't ever happening, i am sure about that.

Hi,
You can send him a PM here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=3137
Or any other type of support here: https://electrum.org/#community

good luck!

[johnny508]

I understand change address option in prior versions.

But i thought the new privacy or priority handling setting had something to now do with the way change addresses handle themselves.  My understanding was that u had a privacy setting which would cause the use of multiple change addresses to be automatically used whenever u send a payment.. So u might send a payment from one address and then see the remainder of ur balance split into 3 change addresses.

Am i misunderstanding this totally and the privacy setting has nothing to do with chg addr?

[secondw123]

I understand change address option in prior versions.

But i thought the new privacy or priority handling setting had something to now do with the way change addresses handle themselves.  My understanding was that u had a privacy setting which would cause the use of multiple change addresses to be automatically used whenever u send a payment.. So u might send a payment from one address and then see the remainder of ur balance split into 3 change addresses.

Am i misunderstanding this totally and the privacy setting has nothing to do with chg addr?

Can't really answer myself, just to note i sent BTC with both priority & Privacy options while change address is OFF , and this kept happening.

[johnny508]

I understand change address option in prior versions.

But i thought the new privacy or priority handling setting had something to now do with the way change addresses handle themselves.  My understanding was that u had a privacy setting which would cause the use of multiple change addresses to be automatically used whenever u send a payment.. So u might send a payment from one address and then see the remainder of ur balance split into 3 change addresses.

Am i misunderstanding this totally and the privacy setting has nothing to do with chg addr?

Can't really answer myself, just to note i sent BTC with both priority & Privacy options while change address is OFF , and this kept happening.

This sounds right.. I think the privacy and priority handling forces some change addy useage.  But if thats right does it render the chg addy option redundant?  Im not positive about any of this but i think its the privacy priority feature causing this and i think its a good thing.  Could use some clarification is all..