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Author Topic: Attached Transactions - Alternative to Replace By Fee (RBF) - Anti Censorship  (Read 2656 times)
Carlton Banks
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February 25, 2016, 03:55:13 PM
 #21

The solution is an emergency hard fork to another mining algorithm which renders so all of the miners' equipment useless. This has been discussed before and it is a solution if miners were to be colluding to the detriment of bitcoin.

I view that as a total failure of the currency, IMO.

Selling? I'm buying.

Vires in numeris
kayrice (OP)
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February 26, 2016, 01:09:23 AM
 #22


>  What exactly does the 'word' being spread about censorship actually accomplish? Since the majority of hashing power are colluding, they can do whatever they want, and no amount of social engineering will help that.

Without this they can cherry-pick individual transactions to not send, meaning the cost to censor a tx is what you are willing to pay in fees as one person. If you pay 0.1 BTC in fees the miner may have stronger interests than that amount to keep censoring the tx. If you can attach the txs together the cost of censoring one tx becomes amplified by each tx, so instead of losing 0.1 BTC over time miners would be choosing to lose the sum of all attached fees from txs that touch the chain of attachment.
kayrice (OP)
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February 26, 2016, 01:11:19 AM
 #23

> Op, the problem is that if people's transactions could be made dependent on another person, they are not acting to their own interests. Buy linking their transactions to the censored one, their own transactions will also not confirm and that is detrimental to their own interests.

If the tx is invalid or miners are unable to accept it then over time they will fall out of the mempool willingly.

EDIT: If your talking about a reverse attack of some kind then we are ultimately talking about *valid* transactions miners chose not to process, which is censorship.
monsterer
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February 26, 2016, 08:23:07 AM
 #24


>  What exactly does the 'word' being spread about censorship actually accomplish? Since the majority of hashing power are colluding, they can do whatever they want, and no amount of social engineering will help that.

Without this they can cherry-pick individual transactions to not send, meaning the cost to censor a tx is what you are willing to pay in fees as one person. If you pay 0.1 BTC in fees the miner may have stronger interests than that amount to keep censoring the tx. If you can attach the txs together the cost of censoring one tx becomes amplified by each tx, so instead of losing 0.1 BTC over time miners would be choosing to lose the sum of all attached fees from txs that touch the chain of attachment.

You don't understand. This is a non problem and if it were a problem, your solution doesn't work.
jl777
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February 26, 2016, 08:47:43 AM
 #25


>  What exactly does the 'word' being spread about censorship actually accomplish? Since the majority of hashing power are colluding, they can do whatever they want, and no amount of social engineering will help that.

Without this they can cherry-pick individual transactions to not send, meaning the cost to censor a tx is what you are willing to pay in fees as one person. If you pay 0.1 BTC in fees the miner may have stronger interests than that amount to keep censoring the tx. If you can attach the txs together the cost of censoring one tx becomes amplified by each tx, so instead of losing 0.1 BTC over time miners would be choosing to lose the sum of all attached fees from txs that touch the chain of attachment.

You don't understand. This is a non problem and if it were a problem, your solution doesn't work.
I heard how evil RBF is, but it seems to just be a flag that indicates the tx is not final and likely to be changed, like when used in micropayments.

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0125.mediawiki

The only thing to quibble with I saw was the lack of ability to use the sequenceid to encode information without enabling RBF as the entire bitspace (other than -2 and -1) activate RBF. But encoding stuff into sequenceid is probably a bad idea anyway.

I have no idea how this got turned into "anybody can cancel payments"
Anybody making such claims, can you explain how somebody can cancel a payment I send with sequenceid of 0xffffffff?

Or how anybody can undo a micropayment with a sequenceid and undo a payment?

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
kayrice (OP)
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February 27, 2016, 12:15:20 AM
 #26

> You don't understand. This is a non problem and if it were a problem, your solution doesn't work.

It must be so simple you can't explain it.
kayrice (OP)
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March 02, 2016, 12:16:02 AM
 #27

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/48eg6y/alex_petrov_of_bitfury_highfee_spam/d0izum5

Quote
It's probably also possible to just identify this spammer's transactions and block them directly.
kayrice (OP)
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April 21, 2016, 10:14:21 AM
 #28

Peter Todd discusses here a scheme where miners may be bribed into rejecting txs that don't include identity information:

https://petertodd.org/2016/mit-chainanchor-bribing-miners-to-regulate-bitcoin
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