Legality of firearms sales utilizing bitcoins

[gadman2]

I've been considering trying to find a niche in ffl transfers and the sale of firearms using bitcoin. Pawn shows can trade physical items for guns, would bitcoin be a problem?

[Fortify]

The only problem really is how you track the bitcoin to USD and USD to bitcoin transactions - cashing out. It's still a new "tech" so regulations are taking a while to catch up. As long as you're tracking movement of funds into your business bank account and paying taxes on it you should be ok.

[DimensionZ]

I think when trading guns you need to provide your ID to the merchant regardless of what currency you are paying for. So if you are hoping to trade in guns anonymously with Bitcoin I don't think this will be legal in the jurisdiction you are in but it's better to just ask around or consult a lawyer. 

[gadman2]

I plan on doing this fully legal with an FFL license. I just don't really see a large market for firearms with bitcoin. I do, however, see a problem with cashing out the BTC for USD to purchase the firearms because most services don't allow businesses with weapon sales to use their site, eg coinbase, bitpay...

Seems like bitstamp does.

[European Central Bank]

I don't see why it's gonna be a legal problem. Might be a terms and conditions problem. You'll have to cover your tracks if you're converting to USD. Exchanges and payment processors might get a little twitchy.

[gadman2]

2nd question. Are there any problems after accepting bitcoin converting it back to cash using localbitcoins? I read a few articles about people being arrested for running unlicensed currency exchanges, I don't know if this would apply to me. I have set a goal of about 50k usd per year in sales at I figure at least 3 or 4k of that will be btc. There is no US regulated exchange like coinbase or circle, (I haven't checked bitstamp) that allows exchanges for businesses that sells firearms. Can I use localbitcoins.com as my exchange without any legal issues?

Thanks.

[gadman2]

Bumps.

[AgentofCoin]

2nd question. Are there any problems after accepting bitcoin converting it back to cash using localbitcoins? I read a few articles about people being arrested for running unlicensed currency exchanges, I don't know if this would apply to me. I have set a goal of about 50k usd per year in sales at I figure at least 3 or 4k of that will be btc. There is no US regulated exchange like coinbase or circle, (I haven't checked bitstamp) that allows exchanges for businesses that sells firearms. Can I use localbitcoins.com as my exchange without any legal issues?

Thanks.

It depends on where you are located and whether that country/state has
laws about money transmission. Also, what are the laws about the sale of guns?
Are you a registered gun seller? Are you performing background checks?

If you accept btc as currency for your business, normally you would use
something like bitpay or whatever to convert to USD, not LBC.

It really is a complicated issue depending on what laws apply there,
especially since the sale of guns is involved.

If you are a serious business, you should contact a lawyer with such knowledge
within your jurisdiction, to be advised of all issues properly.

[gadman2]

It depends on where you are located and whether that country/state has
laws about money transmission. Also, what are the laws about the sale of guns?
Are you a registered gun seller? Are you performing background checks?

All gun sales are legal, I will soon be an registered FFL in Arkansas, although gun sale laws are mostly federal and not state.

If you accept btc as currency for your business, normally you would use
something like bitpay or whatever to convert to USD, not LBC.

Bitpay does not allow the sales of firearms through their site, nor most others.

It really is a complicated issue depending on what laws apply there,
especially since the sale of guns is involved.

That's why I'm here.

If you are a serious business, you should contact a lawyer with such knowledge
within your jurisdiction, to be advised of all issues properly.

There are much cheaper alternatives to a lawyer. Also, "bitcoin" lawyers are hard to come by.

[BayAreaCoins]

All gun sales are legal, I will soon be an registered FFL in Arkansas, although gun sale laws are mostly federal and not state.

I live in Arkansas as well... in fact I think my old house was right down the street from you if I recall.

I called the state after the Shreveport father/son got in trouble in regards to the unregistered exchange.  They said as long as you aren't:

A:  Brokering Bitcoin deals between different parties.

B:  Selling Bitcoin as an investment.

C:  Not running a website exchange.

Then you wouldn't have any problem selling peer to peer.

I spoke to the traders who got in trouble and they said it was the FEDS who fucked with them... not the state. (localbitcoins.com/p/internet151)

Should be fine dealing with Bitcoins and guns.  I've sold a handful of guns for Bitcoin with no issues.

[gadman2]

Alrighty, thanks.

[AgentofCoin]

Alrighty, thanks.

Since you are a legitimate gun sale business and due to the complexities of this matter,
I would still recommend that you contact a lawyer within your jurisdiction who is knowledgeable
about money transmission in large amount in relation to sale of guns. There are probably legal
reasons why businesses such as bitpay do not accept BTC conversions from gun sale businesses.
It is most likely not related to moral or ethical issues but due to other legal regulations.

If you accepted BTC as payment for guns, you are fine. The legal issues stem from when you decide
as a business, to convert that BTC into fiat. There are potential other issues as well. Personally,
I would not recommend accepting BTC as payment for your guns at this time, in your state.
Depending on the interpretation, you may still need a money transmission license.

The question you need to ask is if accepting BTC and not getting a proper legal opinion beforehand
to save money, outweighs the risk of governmental legal action & hurting your life/business.

Of course, I am not providing a legal opinion and I have made you aware that you should seek out
counsel within the jurisdiction in which you wish to do this business and seek a legal opinion as to
these and other potential issues.

[BayAreaCoins]

Alrighty, thanks.

Since you are a legitimate gun sale business and due to the complexities of this matter,
I would still recommend that you contact a lawyer within your jurisdiction who is knowledgeable
about money transmission in large amount in relation to sale of guns. There are probably legal
reasons why businesses such as bitpay do not accept BTC conversions from gun sale businesses.
It is most likely not related to moral or ethical issues but due to other legal regulations.

If you accepted BTC as payment for guns, you are fine. The legal issues stem from when you decide
as a business, to convert that BTC into fiat. There are potential other issues as well. Personally,
I would not recommend accepting BTC as payment for your guns at this time, in your state.
Depending on the interpretation, you may still need a money transmission license.

The question you need to ask is if accepting BTC and not getting a proper legal opinion beforehand
to save money outweighs the risk of governmental legal action & hurting your life/business.

Of course, I am not providing a legal opinion and I have made you aware that you should seek out
counsel within the jurisdiction in which you wish to do this business and seek a legal opinion as to
these and other potential issues.

You won't need a money lic in order to receive Bitcoin payment for goods.

Just sell that shit man and ship it FFL to FFL.

Sell the Bitcoins to me or other peer to peer folks.

I love the way Bitcoins feel after a legal firearm trade.

Arkansas is hands down one of the best places to be selling firearms from and the best laws.