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Author Topic: Poll regarding rounding of Bitcoin amounts in clients  (Read 3636 times)
Sukrim
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March 06, 2013, 10:07:33 AM
 #21

Even with (compared to BTC nearly static) fiat currencies this would cause a LOT of uproar. Just download a year worth of Forex data and then act as if your USD account displayed its values in EUR instead (or the other way round). Suddenly your balance is different every minute, you cannot tell how much you'll earn and spend any more until you actually do so...

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
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solex
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March 06, 2013, 10:28:55 AM
 #22

Even with (compared to BTC nearly static) fiat currencies this would cause a LOT of uproar. Just download a year worth of Forex data and then act as if your USD account displayed its values in EUR instead (or the other way round). Suddenly your balance is different every minute, you cannot tell how much you'll earn and spend any more until you actually do so...

Sukrim, step back and think about it further. If you transfer money from euros or dollars into bitcoin and use it to buy an item off a website in bitcoin then you would be paying more or less in fiat terms by the time you do the purchase. Probably more, with bitcoin rising so much. Are merchants going to revise their Bitcoin prices (usually downward) every minute, hour or even daily?

During the transition period when merchant costs are in fiat, they will be thinking of pricing in fiat terms. It is a hassle to keep revising their prices downwards as bitcoin appreciates. Stale bitcoin prices will always be seen by the public as too expensive.

Making bitcoin a less visible layer underneath a virtual fiat transaction is the way to go. Yes, VF wallets will jump around in value, but if you have $200 worth in fiat and it oscillates between $190 and $210 every now and again, so what? it is not unusable for buying a $10 book.

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March 06, 2013, 10:48:12 AM
 #23

Even with (compared to BTC nearly static) fiat currencies this would cause a LOT of uproar. Just download a year worth of Forex data and then act as if your USD account displayed its values in EUR instead (or the other way round). Suddenly your balance is different every minute, you cannot tell how much you'll earn and spend any more until you actually do so...

Sukrim, step back and think about it further. If you transfer money from euros or dollars into bitcoin and use it to buy an item off a website in bitcoin then you would be paying more or less in fiat terms by the time you do the purchase. Probably more, with bitcoin rising so much. Are merchants going to revise their Bitcoin prices (usually downward) every minute, hour or even daily?

During the transition period when merchant costs are in fiat, they will be thinking of pricing in fiat terms. It is a hassle to keep revising their prices downwards as bitcoin appreciates. Stale bitcoin prices will always be seen by the public as too expensive.

Making bitcoin a less visible layer underneath a virtual fiat transaction is the way to go. Yes, VF wallets will jump around in value, but if you have $200 worth in fiat and it oscillates between $190 and $210 every now and again, so what? it is not unusable for buying a $10 book.

Finally, someone on this forum is thinking like a user rather than a developer! Wink

Currently, this issue of the value of bitcoins to other fiat is why nobody is spending any bitcoins.  I am setting up an ecommerce site at the moment, and am having exactly the problems you are describing.  The only solution I can think of is to offer the bitcoin price only once I'm through checkout on the total spent.

If a bitcoin wallet did this automatically, it would make life very easy, and save me 5%+ on Paypal charges.  More importantly, my customer would be using bitcoins without having to think about conversion prices etc.

I think we may have stumbled on to something very good here! Wink

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March 06, 2013, 11:09:06 AM
 #24

There is also using coin dust as an identification / data passing method, such as what is used by MPEx. I don't suggest rounding it off on large screens (ie desktop, tablets), but for mobile devices rounding wouldn't be a bad idea.

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Sukrim
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March 06, 2013, 11:16:29 AM
 #25

Well, then do it.

Sorry, but the only real way to see how users are going to react ("I bought 200 USD of these 'Bitcoins' and now the USD value in my software jumps!") is to try it out. I personally think it will be a horrible user experience (especially in a moving market and then especially in a downward moving market!) and interestingly these ideas often come up in this forum during rally periods, not during "recessions" in BTCUSD prices.

To display prices in BTC there are easy ways, for example update a general conversion number every hour or so and state that the final price will be calculated + displayed at checkout, including shipping, taxes and whatnot. Also you can just give higher estimates in prices (I guess your goods will be priced in USD) and promise that at checkout the price will be the same or less. With such unstable conversion rates, it is hard anyways to get "used to" any kind of BTC price - a few months ago a BTC bought a single cheap meal at McD, now it can buy a quite nice candle light dinner for 2 and who knows what it'll buy in 2 months from now. It's not like customers are used to seeing prices in BTC and immediately think "wow, this is cheap" without calculating the USD price anyways.

The topic is still how to overcome the problem, that 1 BTC is now not something that's easily spent in dozens any more and how to solve display issues to make it still "processable" for humans (it is hard to see + immediately know a price if it has a bunch of 0s in it).

So far solitions include:
* Move the decimal seperator (e.g. 1 BTC = 1000 mBTC), because it is easier for humans to process large numbers, they espect max. 2 digits after the decimal seperator for currencies and thousands are often grouped, making it more legible.
* Round to the nearest X decimals, because even though it is not an exact value, it makes it easier to process and read and most transactions might not be about spending everything down to the last satoshi.
* Use the floor function instead of rounding (and maybe display the omitted decimals in smaller script and/or colour), this makes sure you can definitely spend everything that is displayed while still keeping the decimals at a comfortable level.
* Display the balance in a different currency alltogether, because users will spend most BTC for things priced in USD anyways and it makes transitioning as well as usage easier if you have already some well known and common elements in place.
* Do nothing, everything is fine and maybe BTC crashes anyways, so the problem is only temporary.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.
https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.
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