BFL - Bitforce Mini Rig SC

[Johnny-Gear]

This: http://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/1500gh-bitcoin-miner.html

Does anyone know what the deal is with purchasing one? I have tried to contact BFL regarding purchasing one, but as of today have not yet heard back.

- I would like to know if they ship globally, and how import expedition is handled and by who.

- I would also like to know what the turn around time is, assuming I purchased today.

- Also, has anyone confirmed the hash rate at 1,500 GH/s ?


Does anyone know a way to call and speak with anyone at BFL? Or at least a surefire way to get some sort of response? I am happy to spend the $30,000 but would like some communication with BFL before doing so.

Johnny

[cdog]

Johnny sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are very late to the game. Not only have the BFL products not been released, they have been delayed over 6 months. The chips havent even all yet been made, just a test wafer which hasnt even been fully tested, let alone assembled into a working prototype, let alone manufactured into a product ready to ship - and their customer support is non-existent. IF they are able to get all chips working correctly, IF they are able to build working prototypes and final builds, THEN maybe they will start shipping in a month or two.

BUT if you order now, you have 19,000 orders ahead of you and by the time you get it in September-October the network difficulty will be so high that it will take at least 8-12+ months just to break even on your investment. By 2014 the profit per GH will be low - very low. Its maybe worth it if you dont mind a high risk long term investment - MAYBE.

If you are bullish on BTC, buy BTC with the $30k - because you will start making $ immediately - not 12+ months from now. 

[panda1]

You should go read https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

[Johnny-Gear]

Johnny sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are very late to the game. Not only have the BFL products not been released, they have been delayed over 6 months. The chips havent even all yet been made, just a test wafer which hasnt even been fully tested, let alone assembled into a working prototype, let alone manufactured into a product ready to ship - and their customer support is non-existent. IF they are able to get all chips working correctly, IF they are able to build working prototypes and final builds, THEN maybe they will start shipping in a month or two.

BUT if you order now, you have 19,000 orders ahead of you and by the time you get it in September-October the network difficulty will be so high that it will take at least 8-12+ months just to break even on your investment. By 2014 the profit per GH will be low - very low. Its maybe worth it if you dont mind a high risk long term investment - MAYBE.

If you are bullish on BTC, buy BTC with the $30k - because you will start making $ immediately - not 12+ months from now.  

Is that 19,000 number accurate or an exaggeration?  source?

Buying in at this point is a risky proposition. Perhaps even across your suggested 12 month period I would likely wait for hardware. The price of BTC is at a record high, and I have been around long enough to know what is likely coming.

EDIT:
- thanks for the link to the forum; didn't realise there was a BFL forum.

- I saw a post with something about 16,000 queue which makes your 19,000 figure look a little more credible: Are all the ASIC chips common for all units, so every BFL product (and the entire queue of pre sales) is waiting on the same chips?

[opentoe]

You should go read https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

Why do so many people have advertisement in their signature to order BFL products when there aren't any to order?

[Johnny-Gear]

You should go read https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

Why do so many people have advertisement in their signature to order BFL products when there aren't any to order?

It's called marketing; Unfortunately, this type of product is unprecedented and grown from an organic movement. That makes these types of products and their development cycle inherently unpredictable due to inexperience of the entrepreneur's and unknown nature of new technology.

You should be so lucky to order and receive one I think - I know I would feel lucky if I were able to purchase and receive one or many units as soon as possible.

Please don't derail my thread though. I am still very interested in everyone's experience with BFL and ordering / recieving / confirming hash rates of ASIC mining units. 

Thanks,

Johnny

[crazyates]

Is that 19,000 number accurate or an exaggeration?  source?

Buying in at this point is a risky proposition. Perhaps even across your suggested 12 month period I would likely wait for hardware. The price of BTC is at a record high, and I have been around long enough to know what is likely coming.

EDIT:
- thanks for the link to the forum; didn't realise there was a BFL forum.

- I saw a post with something about 16,000 queue which makes your 19,000 figure look a little more credible: Are all the ASIC chips common for all units, so every BFL product (and the entire queue of pre sales) is waiting on the same chips?

Don't listen to cdog. Bitcointalk is filled with people of 2 different camps: Those who have orders with BFL, and those who think BFL is the devil incarnate. He's obviously of the latter mindset.

There are 19,000 order numbers, but they started at ~1600, and only paid order numbers actually get shipped. It ends up resulting in a lot of false numbers that aren't really orders at all. I myself went thru 7 order numbers before I finally bought my first SC Single (due to wallet problems), so there aren't actually 19,000 people in front of you.

BFL has not shipped any ASIC products as of yet, but Josh/Inaba's announcement thread will keep you up to date. Yes, BFL will use the same chips across all 4 products, but some units use more (1 chip for the Jalapeno, vs 200 for the MR).

Current estimates are that early pre-orders will ship sometime this month, and orders placed now will ship sometime early summer. You're looking at maybe a 3 month delay last I heard?

[panda1]

You should go read https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

Why do so many people have advertisement in their signature to order BFL products when there aren't any to order?

It was for a contest to win a free product. You should read the forum, too.

[cdog]

Is that 19,000 number accurate or an exaggeration?  source?

Buying in at this point is a risky proposition. Perhaps even across your suggested 12 month period I would likely wait for hardware. The price of BTC is at a record high, and I have been around long enough to know what is likely coming.

EDIT:
- thanks for the link to the forum; didn't realise there was a BFL forum.

- I saw a post with something about 16,000 queue which makes your 19,000 figure look a little more credible: Are all the ASIC chips common for all units, so every BFL product (and the entire queue of pre sales) is waiting on the same chips?

Don't listen to cdog. Bitcointalk is filled with people of 2 different camps: Those who have orders with BFL, and those who think BFL is the devil incarnate. He's obviously of the latter mindset.

There are 19,000 order numbers, but they started at ~1600, and only paid order numbers actually get shipped. It ends up resulting in a lot of false numbers that aren't really orders at all. I myself went thru 7 order numbers before I finally bought my first SC Single (due to wallet problems), so there aren't actually 19,000 people in front of you.

A: I am a BFL customer, so I dont know what you are talking about
B: The false ASIC orders were removed from their system recently. So its 19,000 - 1600 or whatever # of FPGA units they sold is.

My point stands. If you dont mind being out $30k for 18 months and then making a marginal profit, its probably a good gamble.

[hardcore-fs]

Many of these number fantasies rely on :

The order no started here...
There are huge gaps...
Chips will be here soon...


But one I do not see is:
No wafer is 100% perfect, nor are the dies that work correctly (look at intel cpu's and speed grading).
So its going to be a long haul meeting orders.

My cash is currently tied up with BTC purchases, I have nothing on hardware.

[Johnny-Gear]

Is that 19,000 number accurate or an exaggeration?  source?

Buying in at this point is a risky proposition. Perhaps even across your suggested 12 month period I would likely wait for hardware. The price of BTC is at a record high, and I have been around long enough to know what is likely coming.

EDIT:
- thanks for the link to the forum; didn't realise there was a BFL forum.

- I saw a post with something about 16,000 queue which makes your 19,000 figure look a little more credible: Are all the ASIC chips common for all units, so every BFL product (and the entire queue of pre sales) is waiting on the same chips?

Don't listen to cdog. Bitcointalk is filled with people of 2 different camps: Those who have orders with BFL, and those who think BFL is the devil incarnate. He's obviously of the latter mindset.

There are 19,000 order numbers, but they started at ~1600, and only paid order numbers actually get shipped. It ends up resulting in a lot of false numbers that aren't really orders at all. I myself went thru 7 order numbers before I finally bought my first SC Single (due to wallet problems), so there aren't actually 19,000 people in front of you.

A: I am a BFL customer, so I dont know what you are talking about
B: The false ASIC orders were removed from their system recently. So its 19,000 - 1600 or whatever # of FPGA units they sold is.

My point stands. If you dont mind being out $30k for 18 months and then making a marginal profit, its probably a good gamble.

Thanks for the response.

I am reconsidering the 30K unit, as it seems like getting several 60 GH/s units may be the better way to with the current backlog of BFL orders. The $30K may be too big of a liability for anything > 6 months wait...

Does anyone know if there is a good place to look for people selling their BFL pre-sale queue positions? Also, is there a good way to do this; Do people get updates regarding their position in queue?

I would be happy to pay a premium; almost goes without saying.

Regards,

Johnny

[DrG]

Is that 19,000 number accurate or an exaggeration?  source?

Buying in at this point is a risky proposition. Perhaps even across your suggested 12 month period I would likely wait for hardware. The price of BTC is at a record high, and I have been around long enough to know what is likely coming.

EDIT:
- thanks for the link to the forum; didn't realise there was a BFL forum.

- I saw a post with something about 16,000 queue which makes your 19,000 figure look a little more credible: Are all the ASIC chips common for all units, so every BFL product (and the entire queue of pre sales) is waiting on the same chips?

Don't listen to cdog. Bitcointalk is filled with people of 2 different camps: Those who have orders with BFL, and those who think BFL is the devil incarnate. He's obviously of the latter mindset.

There are 19,000 order numbers, but they started at ~1600, and only paid order numbers actually get shipped. It ends up resulting in a lot of false numbers that aren't really orders at all. I myself went thru 7 order numbers before I finally bought my first SC Single (due to wallet problems), so there aren't actually 19,000 people in front of you.

A: I am a BFL customer, so I dont know what you are talking about
B: The false ASIC orders were removed from their system recently. So its 19,000 - 1600 or whatever # of FPGA units they sold is.

My point stands. If you dont mind being out $30k for 18 months and then making a marginal profit, its probably a good gamble.

Thanks for the response.

I am reconsidering the 30K unit, as it seems like getting several 60 GH/s units may be the better way to with the current backlog of BFL orders. The $30K may be too big of a liability for anything > 6 months wait...

Does anyone know if there is a good place to look for people selling their BFL pre-sale queue positions? Also, is there a good way to do this; Do people get updates regarding their position in queue?

I would be happy to pay a premium; almost goes without saying.

Regards,

Johnny

The people who are at the very front of the queue, like myself, will most likely not give up their spot for anything less than an obscene amount.  Many people have asked looking for a June or early July order -good luck - you're better off finding a Cass coin on the sidewalk.

The other issue is BFL and Avalon will not allow changes to shipping address to avoid issues with people's accounts getting hacked.  So even if you bought someones order you would then be delayed by waiting for a second shipment.

Best bet now would be to buy coins and wait for a strategic entry timing (as more ASIC vendors will pop up).

[Johnny-Gear]

Is that 19,000 number accurate or an exaggeration?  source?

Buying in at this point is a risky proposition. Perhaps even across your suggested 12 month period I would likely wait for hardware. The price of BTC is at a record high, and I have been around long enough to know what is likely coming.

EDIT:
- thanks for the link to the forum; didn't realise there was a BFL forum.

- I saw a post with something about 16,000 queue which makes your 19,000 figure look a little more credible: Are all the ASIC chips common for all units, so every BFL product (and the entire queue of pre sales) is waiting on the same chips?

Don't listen to cdog. Bitcointalk is filled with people of 2 different camps: Those who have orders with BFL, and those who think BFL is the devil incarnate. He's obviously of the latter mindset.

There are 19,000 order numbers, but they started at ~1600, and only paid order numbers actually get shipped. It ends up resulting in a lot of false numbers that aren't really orders at all. I myself went thru 7 order numbers before I finally bought my first SC Single (due to wallet problems), so there aren't actually 19,000 people in front of you.

A: I am a BFL customer, so I dont know what you are talking about
B: The false ASIC orders were removed from their system recently. So its 19,000 - 1600 or whatever # of FPGA units they sold is.

My point stands. If you dont mind being out $30k for 18 months and then making a marginal profit, its probably a good gamble.

Thanks for the response.

I am reconsidering the 30K unit, as it seems like getting several 60 GH/s units may be the better way to with the current backlog of BFL orders. The $30K may be too big of a liability for anything > 6 months wait...

Does anyone know if there is a good place to look for people selling their BFL pre-sale queue positions? Also, is there a good way to do this; Do people get updates regarding their position in queue?

I would be happy to pay a premium; almost goes without saying.

Regards,

Johnny

The people who are at the very front of the queue, like myself, will most likely not give up their spot for anything less than an obscene amount.  Many people have asked looking for a June or early July order -good luck - you're better off finding a Cass coin on the sidewalk.

The other issue is BFL and Avalon will not allow changes to shipping address to avoid issues with people's accounts getting hacked.  So even if you bought someones order you would then be delayed by waiting for a second shipment.

Best bet now would be to buy coins and wait for a strategic entry timing (as more ASIC vendors will pop up).

Thanks for the response.

I understand your viewpoint but at the time the ASICs were announced I was skeptical and the market was far more bearish, thus my lack of investment. At this point however, the market is far more bullish, and that's why me and everyone else is here trying to make the safer bet.

I am sure, though, that there are at least a few people in less than optimal financial situations willing to take the smaller profit now than wait and risk the difficulty increase and unknown BFL wait times. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

The second shipment is fine, because I would not accept a spot in queue from anyone outside US who is not in Australia or New Zealand or somewhere else close. This means that the total extra shipping time is likely negligible as US to US shipping should be relatively quick.

I think looking for new ASIC vendors is a silly option; The very same problems we have seen with Avalon and BFL and other startups will plague any new startups, but not only that. BFL and Avalon have a first to market advantage which means they have much more capital to throw around due to interested buyers. They also have their R&D data to draw from, which when talking IC fabrication and assembly, is pretty damn valuable. Furthermore, they have actually done fab runs of chips and assembled the devices along with testing them. This process will only be streamlined and specialized from here on out, making BFL and Avalon pretty formidable competitors for any new entrant.

Regards,

Johnny

[opentoe]

If you need to ask these many questions with the forum full of information repeated over and over then maybe you aren't ready to invest in such a project? I only ordered an SC and since I don't "need" that $1300 anything I make in return is a plus for me. $1300 to me is a few shopping trips at Walmart. I just won't visit as much as I do.

[Johnny-Gear]

If you need to ask these many questions with the forum full of information repeated over and over then maybe you aren't ready to invest in such a project? I only ordered an SC and since I don't "need" that $1300 anything I make in return is a plus for me. $1300 to me is a few shopping trips at Walmart. I just won't visit as much as I do.

The reason I am asking so many questions, is because I plan to spend significantly more than $1,300.

Also, just because you are frivolous with your money, does not mean everyone is. There is something to be said for caution, especially in market conditions such as these.

But, thanks for your comments, however useless they were.

Regards,

Johnny

[opentoe]

Useless or not, you are very welcome bud.

[georgeu2000]

You should go read https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php

Why do so many people have advertisement in their signature to order BFL products when there aren't any to order?

Haha. Funny.

[Dalkore]

Avalon Batch #3 may still be in stock,    HorseRider has a bunch of units for sales and if that doesn't work, contact me direclty and I might have an option for you.     

[mot7]

I'm thinking of selling my September 18th spot on BFL's order.  Order number #8061.

PM me with what you are thinking of offering.

[soniq]

There is no market advantage for Asic pioneers, prime example Apple and their iphone

I think looking for new ASIC vendors is a silly option; The very same problems we have seen with Avalon and BFL and other startups will plague any new startups, but not only that. BFL and Avalon have a first to market advantage which means they have much more capital to throw around due to interested buyers. They also have their R&D data to draw from, which when talking IC fabrication and assembly, is pretty damn valuable. Furthermore, they have actually done fab runs of chips and assembled the devices along with testing them. This process will only be streamlined and specialized from here on out, making BFL and Avalon pretty formidable competitors for any new entrant.

Regards,

Johnny