Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2024, 08:29:16 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [2017-06-05]Opinion: Are Bitcoiners Losing Faith?  (Read 4171 times)
renfangfua (OP)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
June 05, 2017, 01:02:26 AM
 #1

“I have zero trust left for Jihan Wu and Bitmain. I do not believe they have the best interests of the Bitcoin community in mind. They continue to collect substantial fees from everyone, yet try to deflect blame on others who get none of those fees whatsoever.”

Get exclusive analysis of bitcoin and learn from our trading tutorials. Join Hacked.com for just $39 now.

So charged Eric Lombrozo, a bitcoin developer, in a statement that amounts to nothing less but the president scolding the supreme court, breaching long standing constitutional norms, which is usually followed by a crisis.

On the other hand, Jeff Garzik, another bitcoin developer, has made a personal statement asking the bitcoin community to support segwit+2MB, a proposal that is viewed as just segwit for big blockers, and data center nodes for small blockers.

Jihan Wu and other miners, for their own part, haven’t minced their words towards some developers or proposals. While Blockstream’s “contractor,” Luke DashJr, who believes in absolute monarchy, calls for the firing of miners.

All of this would have been very interesting back in 2015, maybe even in 2016, but now much of it is far too boring as everyone has seen this movie already, and has seen it many times. So no one is paying attention anymore to anything they say. Time to act was long ago, time to try and achieve results through voice was long before that. Now, it appears to be time to exit or put up.
And exit they are. Both of bitcoin’s public places are covered in ethereum news. The less than two years old network has achieved many firsts, with many wondering whether it will achieve another first, whether it will overtake bitcoin’s market cap.
The atmosphere is depressing in all of bitcoin’s spaces and, for those of us who cheered with many of them in 2013, it is sad. Yet, it was all predictable and they were warned long ago that capacity had to be increased because the whole point of bitcoin is to move value from A to B.

But, few of those who cheered in 2013 remain in bitcoin. Many of them left during spring last year. Most of the rest followed this spring, joining a community that continues that 2013 cheering, ethereum.
You know bitcoin is in trouble when someone unironically says “this is actually good for bitcoin.” It isn’t. Save for an unfixable protocol bug that makes the network nonoperational, one can’t really see anything worse for bitcoin than a community failure.

Because, on a social, rather than technical, level, bitcoin has failed – objectively speaking. It failed the moment Michael Marquardt, the top moderator of r/bitcoin, who gained such moderatorship in unclear circumstances, began using censorship and banning, after advocating for years anarcho-capitalism and NAP.

A policy that had long been used on IRC where much bitcoin development discussion takes place, causing some developers to leave. Developers who, in turn, created an oasis of innovation outside of bitcoin, while bitcoin stagnated.
In that sort of atmosphere, which was largely hidden due to mainly occurring on IRC in a conversation format filled with plenty of noise, it was only a matter of time until bitcoin became a relic as unarguably it has at a protocol level.

The solution was fairly easy, on the surface, but with bitcoin being the very first, launched in a manner whereby no one really thought it would work, influential positions were gained not necessarily on merit, but on first come first served basis.

Thus, bitcoin’s first seen rule became highest fee with its transactions – that previously could be said are as good as instant due to the practical difficulty of double spending – becoming as good as next day or next week. Even for the privileged few, it takes 10 minutes in a digital age where everything is instant.

Thus, people and businesses left to that digital currency which continues to keep bitcoin’s promise of as good as free and as good as instant. A currency which received some more real actual good news from China, where OKCoin and Huobi are to list it for trading from tomorrow.

That sparked this latest round of depression for those who remain in bitcoin as OKCoin explicitly stated:

“We implore BTC Core developers and relevant Miners to work together and resolve any outstanding technical issues, activate Segwit, and solve BTC’s scaling issues. Our industry and the history of technology offers us many warnings, whether it’s the IE browser or the Nokia mobile phone. No matter how dominant, how much market share you have, if you do not adopt the latest technology and fail to constantly improve on the core user value proposition, time will pass you by.”

Many would argue it already has, not least because some bitcoin developers and miners have already tried to work together and have failed, with one bitcoiner putting it fairly succinctly:
Maybe bitcoin is, but not the bitcoin dream. That has re-branded now to ethereum, where most developers work for the richest blockchain company, the Ethereum Foundation, which holds the vast majority of its assets in eth.

That means a social attack on that network would be far more costly, not least because it is backed by many household brands, including Toyota, Samsung, JP Morgan, Microsoft, Intel, BP and far too many others.

Can Eth Settle Bitcoin’s Scalability Debate?

After years of debate, ethereum might also provide the conclusive evidence to settle it. That network now boasts of having three times more nodes than bitcoin, making it the most decentralized public blockchain.

That too is a first, among a long line of them. It shows, to whoever cares about objectivity, that an increased utility increases the number of nodes. A fairly self evident fact because higher utility means a higher level of users, means a higher amount of people/businesses who want to or need to run a node.

Just to show it further, bitcoin’s node numbers have stagnated to around 7,000, because despite an increased price, it has not attracted more businesses, more projects, more innovation, more people who are incentivized to run a node.

But, some bitcoin developers have long moved from facts to theology, so such data points are most probably non-indicative for a number of petty reasons that completely ignore practical reality.

That said, this is not necessarily an obituary for the phoenix. It gives me no pleasure to daily read depressing comments in bitcoin’s public places. I would be far happier to see bitcoin move and fairly compete with eth.

Which means miners, developers and businesses need to make a decision – either fork or don’t fork. But that’s what I said a year ago. No one listened then, doubt anyone will listen now. So I’m off to get some sugar and cheer up at the ethereum land.

read more:https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/opinion-bitcoiners-losing-faith/
joshy23
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 256



View Profile
June 05, 2017, 01:59:42 PM
 #2

Its been miners vs core developers. Each one has its own agenda and the one that suffer is really the bitcoin enthusiast. They have to make a consensus otherwise, ETH can possibly overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap. ETH now is enjoying ATH similar to bitcoin. But I think investors are looking at it because of its use case and possible application to different industries.
veleten
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030
Merit: 1106



View Profile
June 05, 2017, 02:15:39 PM
 #3

Its been miners vs core developers. Each one has its own agenda and the one that suffer is really the bitcoin enthusiast. They have to make a consensus otherwise, ETH can possibly overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap. ETH now is enjoying ATH similar to bitcoin. But I think investors are looking at it because of its use case and possible application to different industries.

it is not miners vs core developpers,do not manipulate
it is bitcoin core developpers vs bitcoin unlimited,miners can be both pro core or pro BU
ETH will not overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap due to its limited usage nature
and bitcoiners are not losing faith in any way,just look at the price growth
we bounced from the vertical dive and are trying to set new price record

          ▄▄████▄▄
      ▄▄███▀    ▀███▄▄
   ▄████████▄▄▄▄████████▄
  ▀██████████████████████▀
▐█▄▄ ▀▀████▀    ▀████▀▀ ▄▄██
▐█████▄▄ ▀██▄▄▄▄██▀ ▄▄██▀  █
▐██ ▀████▄▄ ▀██▀ ▄▄████  ▄██
▐██  ███████▄  ▄████████████
▐██  █▌▐█ ▀██  ██████▀  ████
▐██  █▌▐█  ██  █████  ▄█████
 ███▄ ▌▐█  ██  ████████████▀
  ▀▀████▄ ▄██  ██▀  ████▀▀
      ▀▀█████  █  ▄██▀▀
         ▀▀██  ██▀▀
.WINDICE.████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████
      ▄████████▀
     ▄████████
    ▄███████▀
   ▄███████▀
  ▄█████████████
 ▄████████████▀
▄███████████▀
     █████▀
    ████▀
   ████
  ███▀
 ██▀
█▀

██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
     ▄▄█████▄   ▄▄▄▄
    ██████████▄███████▄
  ▄████████████████████▌
 ████████████████████████
▐████████████████████████▌
 ▀██████████████████████▀
     ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
     ▄█     ▄█     ▄█
   ▄██▌   ▄██▌   ▄██▌
   ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀
       ▄█     ▄█
     ▄██▌   ▄██▌
     ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀

██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
                   ▄█▄
                 ▄█████▄
                █████████▄
       ▄       ██ ████████▌
     ▄███▄    ▐█▌▐█████████
   ▄███████▄   ██ ▀███████▀
 ▄███████████▄  ▀██▄▄████▀
▐█ ▄███████████    ▀▀▀▀
█ █████████████▌      ▄
█▄▀████████████▌    ▄███▄
▐█▄▀███████████    ▐█▐███▌
 ▀██▄▄▀▀█████▀      ▀█▄█▀
   ▀▀▀███▀▀▀
████
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
████


▄▄████████▄▄
▄████████████████▄
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀  █████
████████████▀▀      ██████
▐████████▀▀   ▄▄     ██████▌
▐████▀▀    ▄█▀▀     ███████▌
▐████████ █▀        ███████▌
████████ █ ▄███▄   ███████
████████████████▄▄██████
▀████████████████████▀
▀████████████████▀
▀▀████████▀▀
iePlay NoweiI
I
I
I
[/t
TraderTimm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1121



View Profile
June 05, 2017, 02:33:40 PM
 #4

Market cap, the measuring stick of fools.

Its just yet-another-hit-piece-on-core masquerading as an op-ed.

Good for you. Nobody cares.

Scaling is coming in one form or another, and along with it, sidechains will arrive shortly thereafter - making a lot of alt-coin tokens completely irrelevant. But keep on rambling about how everything is "wrong" with Bitcoin.

I'm able to use the system just fine, just like I did back in 2011.

So much hyperbole, so little pragmatic analysis.

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
lllaqpt
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 420
Merit: 100



View Profile
June 05, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
 #5

Its been miners vs core developers. Each one has its own agenda and the one that suffer is really the bitcoin enthusiast. They have to make a consensus otherwise, ETH can possibly overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap. ETH now is enjoying ATH similar to bitcoin. But I think investors are looking at it because of its use case and possible application to different industries.

it is not miners vs core developpers,do not manipulate
it is bitcoin core developpers vs bitcoin unlimited,miners can be both pro core or pro BU
ETH will not overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap due to its limited usage nature
and bitcoiners are not losing faith in any way,just look at the price growth
we bounced from the vertical dive and are trying to set new price record

I until recently completely trusted bitcoin. But the problem of long transactions makes me very nervous. So I started using ETH. I'm sure that I'm not the only person who did this.
I hope that the problem of transactions will be solved

SATURN
Liquidity providerfor crypto markets Cross-chain Exchange & OTC trading Platform
────────  Facebook Twitter ♦  Telegram ♦  Blog ♦  Bitcointalk   ────────
Nagadota
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500


ClaimWithMe - the most paying faucet of all times!


View Profile WWW
June 05, 2017, 03:19:07 PM
 #6

I have zero trust left for Jihan Wu and Bitmain. I do not believe they have the best interests of the Bitcoin community in mind.
True.  All polls I've seen before have suggested that the Bitcoin community is largely in favour of SegWit, such as ViaBTC's poll which resulted in over 80% SegWit support.
Quote from: renfangfua
They[...] try to deflect blame on people who get none of those fees whatsoever.
False.  SegWit supporting pools still receive transaction fees.  F2Pool, for example, has been receiving transaction fees while supporting SegWit.  Who leads the pool and whether they're a figurehead for all evil doesn't really make a difference to this at all.  Furthermore, BU would result in fees being lower, at least in the short term.
Quote from: renfangfua
But, few of those who cheered in 2013 remain in bitcoin. Many of them left during spring last year. Most of the rest followed this spring, joining a community that continues that 2013 cheering, ethereum.
Baseless claim.  Bitcoin is still extremely popular.
Quote from: renfangfua
Because, on a social, rather than technical, level, bitcoin has failed – objectively speaking. It failed the moment Michael Marquardt, the top moderator of r/bitcoin, who gained such moderatorship in unclear circumstances, began using censorship and banning, after advocating for years anarcho-capitalism and NAP.
Anarcho-capitalism (fake anarchism), has no relation to what someone does on a private forum.  Furthermore, censorship on a private forum would not violate the NAP.

ImHash
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 506


View Profile
June 05, 2017, 04:01:44 PM
 #7

ETH is controlled by an organization, every time the Mario dies they eat a mushroom and resurrect him (hard forking).
If ETH could reach $200+ then why ETC the original ethereum is still under $20? it should either have zero value or if not then should be equal to ETH. Who wants to fire the miners and how exactly? if anyone could stop anyone else from mining then time to call bitcoin a central bank of digital currencies.
Kprawn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904
Merit: 1073


View Profile
June 05, 2017, 05:23:04 PM
 #8

Oh, another Bitcoin is dying and Ethereum is the answer to all of your prayers thread. I would not give Ethereum away for free to my biggest

enemy, because it is the biggest Shill show and Snake Oil sold to the greedy. A lot of people missed out on the early days of Bitcoin and hoping

they can repeat this with Ethereum. { A lot of them bought in early into Ethereum and are now shilling like crazy to pump it, to increase their

profits }

THE FIRST DECENTRALIZED & PLAYER-OWNED CASINO
.EARNBET..EARN BITCOIN: DIVIDENDS
FOR-LIFETIME & MUCH MORE.
. BET WITH: BTCETHEOSLTCBCHWAXXRPBNB
.JOIN US: GITLABTWITTERTELEGRAM
veleten
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030
Merit: 1106



View Profile
June 05, 2017, 07:01:26 PM
 #9

Its been miners vs core developers. Each one has its own agenda and the one that suffer is really the bitcoin enthusiast. They have to make a consensus otherwise, ETH can possibly overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap. ETH now is enjoying ATH similar to bitcoin. But I think investors are looking at it because of its use case and possible application to different industries.

it is not miners vs core developpers,do not manipulate
it is bitcoin core developpers vs bitcoin unlimited,miners can be both pro core or pro BU
ETH will not overtake bitcoin in terms of market cap due to its limited usage nature
and bitcoiners are not losing faith in any way,just look at the price growth
we bounced from the vertical dive and are trying to set new price record

I until recently completely trusted bitcoin. But the problem of long transactions makes me very nervous. So I started using ETH. I'm sure that I'm not the only person who did this.
I hope that the problem of transactions will be solved

do you think of ETH price grows more there will be less problems with transactions?
was there a problem with transaction for bitcoins a year or two ago?
ETH is not the bitcoin killer or a substitution,it has its function of smart contracts platform and at the moment transactions are faster
the higher ETH price goes the more problems with transactions there will be,it is not much different from bitcoin in this regard

          ▄▄████▄▄
      ▄▄███▀    ▀███▄▄
   ▄████████▄▄▄▄████████▄
  ▀██████████████████████▀
▐█▄▄ ▀▀████▀    ▀████▀▀ ▄▄██
▐█████▄▄ ▀██▄▄▄▄██▀ ▄▄██▀  █
▐██ ▀████▄▄ ▀██▀ ▄▄████  ▄██
▐██  ███████▄  ▄████████████
▐██  █▌▐█ ▀██  ██████▀  ████
▐██  █▌▐█  ██  █████  ▄█████
 ███▄ ▌▐█  ██  ████████████▀
  ▀▀████▄ ▄██  ██▀  ████▀▀
      ▀▀█████  █  ▄██▀▀
         ▀▀██  ██▀▀
.WINDICE.████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████
      ▄████████▀
     ▄████████
    ▄███████▀
   ▄███████▀
  ▄█████████████
 ▄████████████▀
▄███████████▀
     █████▀
    ████▀
   ████
  ███▀
 ██▀
█▀

██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
     ▄▄█████▄   ▄▄▄▄
    ██████████▄███████▄
  ▄████████████████████▌
 ████████████████████████
▐████████████████████████▌
 ▀██████████████████████▀
     ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
     ▄█     ▄█     ▄█
   ▄██▌   ▄██▌   ▄██▌
   ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀
       ▄█     ▄█
     ▄██▌   ▄██▌
     ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀

██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
                   ▄█▄
                 ▄█████▄
                █████████▄
       ▄       ██ ████████▌
     ▄███▄    ▐█▌▐█████████
   ▄███████▄   ██ ▀███████▀
 ▄███████████▄  ▀██▄▄████▀
▐█ ▄███████████    ▀▀▀▀
█ █████████████▌      ▄
█▄▀████████████▌    ▄███▄
▐█▄▀███████████    ▐█▐███▌
 ▀██▄▄▀▀█████▀      ▀█▄█▀
   ▀▀▀███▀▀▀
████
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
  ██
████


▄▄████████▄▄
▄████████████████▄
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀  █████
████████████▀▀      ██████
▐████████▀▀   ▄▄     ██████▌
▐████▀▀    ▄█▀▀     ███████▌
▐████████ █▀        ███████▌
████████ █ ▄███▄   ███████
████████████████▄▄██████
▀████████████████████▀
▀████████████████▀
▀▀████████▀▀
iePlay NoweiI
I
I
I
[/t
richardsNY
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1091


View Profile
June 05, 2017, 07:18:52 PM
 #10

People buying themselves into Ethereum at current levels are hardcore gamblers. People believing in Ethereum to eventually surpass Bitcoin in whatever way, are 100% delusional. Currently the far majority of the Ether tokens are in the hands of a very few entities. From there they can easily control the circulating supply to manipulate the price to insanely high levels. I honestly don't believe Ethereum was fairly distributed at the time the ICO was running. Everything around that initial stage stinks big time.
BitFinnese
Copper Member
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 05, 2017, 07:19:46 PM
 #11

I was into the article and was thinking how bitcoin fare.   I almost agree with the writer until I read about Ethereum and its greatness and now I know, it is a biased article promoting Eth as solution to bitcoin unsolved scalability issue. Funny how people twist stuff just to put advantage to the one they are promoting.
kjlimo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2114
Merit: 1031


View Profile WWW
June 05, 2017, 08:33:28 PM
 #12

I was into the article and was thinking how bitcoin fare.   I almost agree with the writer until I read about Ethereum and its greatness and now I know, it is a biased article promoting Eth as solution to bitcoin unsolved scalability issue. Funny how people twist stuff just to put advantage to the one they are promoting.

I see what you did there... Wink

Coinbase for selling BTCs
Fold for spending BTCs
PM me with any questions on these sites/apps!  http://www.montybitcoin.com


or Vircurex for trading alt cryptocurrencies like DOGEs
CoinNinja for exploring the blockchain.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!