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Author Topic: how much does it take to break the bitcoin system  (Read 509 times)
pseudonüm (OP)
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July 15, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
 #1

lets say some government wants to stop all bitcoin transactions globally.
how much money/ressources/influence does it take to break the bitcoin system?

they would have to be in control of the majority of processing power in the bicoin network. ist that correct?
how hard is it to accomplish this? how much would this cost?
BurtW
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July 15, 2013, 10:31:14 PM
 #2

Let's call the current Bitcoin network 200 Th.  So in order to "take over" the network they would need to buy/build at least 200 Th right now.

However, since the network is growing it may be 300 Th before they have their hashing power ready.  Meaning at that point they would need at least 300 Th to be 50% of the network.

But there are much easier ways they can attempt to "break" Bitcoin.  Simply making it illegal comes to mind.  However, if they do that then the price will sky rocket (see drugs, alcohol, other things they have tried to prohibit).

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
dice64
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July 15, 2013, 10:52:48 PM
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Let's call the current Bitcoin network 200 Th.  So in order to "take over" the network they would need to buy/build at least 200 Th right now.

However, since the network is growing it may be 300 Th before they have their hashing power ready.  Meaning at that point they would need at least 300 Th to be 50% of the network.

But there are much easier ways they can attempt to "break" Bitcoin.  Simply making it illegal comes to mind.  However, if they do that then the price will sky rocket (see drugs, alcohol, other things they have tried to prohibit).

It wouldn't be hard at this point for a government  or large organisation to put in a mass order for ASIC chips to build their own devices and start to gain a large amount of hashing power for itself. As the main cost in ASIC production is for the initial investment in the masks used in the photolithography of the wafers. Still at the current rate of expansion of the asic market and more manufacturers looking at smaller node sizes this becomes an increasingly more difficult attack vector.

But still, you'd only want to gain hashing power if you wanted to control block creation and be able to double spent. At this point it would be much simpler to flood the network under a ddos attack or to build many cancer nodes which send invalid transactions out to nodes which then get 'clogged' trying to validate and see if those transactions are real before relaying them. This would be a much easier way of stopping money transfer instead of going after hashing power.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Cancer_nodes

This estimates the current number of nodes at 158833, that's a lot to attack especially as you'd probably need more than 1 cancer node for every real node. But this still isn't far out of the reach of any government or very large organisation.

http://getaddr.bitnodes.io/52/
BurtW
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July 15, 2013, 10:56:43 PM
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They could also attack Bitcoin by running up the price to a very high level and then dumping them down, run up, dump down.  They would lose a lot of their fiat doing this but, hey, there is plenty more where that came from.

They could also just "buy up all the BTC" !!

(If there are any gov agents reading this PLEASE do one of these ideas, thanks)

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
Mota
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July 15, 2013, 11:48:48 PM
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They could also attack Bitcoin by running up the price to a very high level and then dumping them down, run up, dump down.  They would lose a lot of their fiat doing this but, hey, there is plenty more where that came from.

They could also just "buy up all the BTC" !!

(If there are any gov agents reading this PLEASE do one of these ideas, thanks)

That would be pointless since it is practically impossible to buy up all bitcoins.
bigike54
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July 16, 2013, 12:28:36 AM
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They could also attack Bitcoin by running up the price to a very high level and then dumping them down, run up, dump down.  They would lose a lot of their fiat doing this but, hey, there is plenty more where that came from.

They could also just "buy up all the BTC" !!

(If there are any gov agents reading this PLEASE do one of these ideas, thanks)

That would be pointless since it is practically impossible to buy up all bitcoins.

With enough money, you can control and shock the market when you please.  This only requires holding a significant number of bit coins, not all.
Mota
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July 16, 2013, 12:49:41 AM
 #7

They could also attack Bitcoin by running up the price to a very high level and then dumping them down, run up, dump down.  They would lose a lot of their fiat doing this but, hey, there is plenty more where that came from.

They could also just "buy up all the BTC" !!

(If there are any gov agents reading this PLEASE do one of these ideas, thanks)

That would be pointless since it is practically impossible to buy up all bitcoins.

With enough money, you can control and shock the market when you please.  This only requires holding a significant number of bit coins, not all.
That would not break the Bitcpoin System. Controlling the market is pointless if you want to break bitcoins... You first have to buy up a lot of btc. Say half of it: you create a huge demand and the price rises. Since you need a LOT of btc you have to pay higher and higher fiat for it. And then what? You want the prize to stay that high? Then you have to buy continuosly to create a demand at that level. And then? Dump it all again? No one will buy the btc for that ridiculous prize, everyone will wait until they get it a little cheaper. Also, new btc will be made... You might argue that trade will be impossible, but it would not be since you can always use smaller tradeunits. And regarding shockng the market: if the price for btc is high enough volatility is not that great an issue anymore.
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