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Author Topic: Hashrates of mining securities  (Read 3874 times)
usagi
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August 10, 2013, 03:36:38 PM
Last edit: August 10, 2013, 04:41:40 PM by usagi
 #21

Sometimes when I get upset I like to blow off steam by "typing angry". Then I inevitably think better of it and go back and edit the post. *shrug* Deprived's posts here calling his investors idiots and retards struck a nerve. Yes people make mistakes and sometimes people should know better. But even when you are running a mining security you do your best. I run BMF and I find myself fleeing mining bonds and getting into face value to save my investors. Because I want to protect them. I do not think of my investors as idiots and retards.

I could go into all sorts of reasons why selling a virtual security below the cost of actual production is a ridiculously dangerous idea (and it is -- it is bound to have severe, unforeseen economic consequences) but that is not the topic of this discussion. I've decided to just condense it into this:

"Is DMS in violation of the BTC-TC terms of service?"
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinStocks/comments/1k3cft/is_dms_in_violation_of_the_btctc_terms_of_service/

Thank you for your time, dear readers.
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August 10, 2013, 07:29:25 PM
 #22

Comparison of mining securities

Since I cannot embed the document directly, and cannot export from google docs as an image - I have screenshotted the output manually.



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgJpAFrm8wAzdHpXbGFsQ1lVX0h2YkNXSTNSQi1LRmc#gid=0

Grab prices from BTCT using API.

Will take me a while to climb up again, But where is a will, there is a way...
Deprived
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August 10, 2013, 10:45:32 PM
 #23

Sometimes when I get upset I like to blow off steam by "typing angry". Then I inevitably think better of it and go back and edit the post. *shrug* Deprived's posts here calling his investors idiots and retards struck a nerve. Yes people make mistakes and sometimes people should know better. But even when you are running a mining security you do your best. I run BMF and I find myself fleeing mining bonds and getting into face value to save my investors. Because I want to protect them. I do not think of my investors as idiots and retards.

I could go into all sorts of reasons why selling a virtual security below the cost of actual production is a ridiculously dangerous idea (and it is -- it is bound to have severe, unforeseen economic consequences) but that is not the topic of this discussion. I've decided to just condense it into this:

"Is DMS in violation of the BTC-TC terms of service?"
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinStocks/comments/1k3cft/is_dms_in_violation_of_the_btctc_terms_of_service/

Thank you for your time, dear readers.

Eventually you - and other retards - will get it into their heads that DMS.Mining is a bet with those who hold DMS.Selling.  My role is mainly to act as an escrow allowing them to speculate against one another.  I don't sell DMS.Mining OR DMS.Selling - so holders of neither are investing (to any large extent) with me.  I qualify it with "any large extent" as they ARE investing with me to the degree that I invest some of the capital to generate modest returns - but I have no control over the prices traded at or the amount of dividend each receives.

So when I refer to people as retards or idiots it's for entering into a bet at a bad price with whoever they bought their MINING from.  It has nothing to do with investing in me - as they AREN'T investing in me : nothing I do is going to change what those holding MINING receive (unless I do something really stupid with the capital).

I could have made a lot more profit if I'd set the prices myself rather than allowing anyone who wants to market-make (i.e. kept MINING priced just under the lowest-priced competitor).  But I don't run investments like that - anything I run which relies on my judgment is going to be designed to make all investors profit.

As for your question of whether I'm breaking the asset-issuers' terms of service.  No I'm not.  Read them more carefully - hint: the rule isn't a blanket ban on investing in securities with same issuer (there's a qualifier).

Rest of your reddit post is just you showing your usual lack of understanding : somewhere you seem to have got the mistaken impression that LTC-ATF/B1/B2 invest in coinlenders - they don't.  You also seem to believe that DMS mainly invests in my own securities - it doesn't (it has less in mine than in either of Coinlenders or J-D).  You also seem to believe investors in PURCHASE make a loss because of my 3% management fee - they don't (you can check what it started selling at, take off dividends to date and compare to current price - you'll find it's made a profit).  In short you've got none of your facts correct on which you base your conclusions.  Which is about par for the course.

Haven't you got better things to be doing?  Like:

Paying back the Nyan.A investors who were promised their money back in Q1.
Continuing your 'buy-back' offer on BMF which strangely results in outstanding shares count increasing.  As with previous buy-backs seems it's just a feeble attempt to pump the price for you to sell into.
Try to devise ways to explain why an investment fund that is only mandated to invest in Mining securities ends up with way more in non-mining than mining-related.  All BMF seems to be is a vehicle to invest across bonds issued by other people with the occasion spell of chucking away some cash on overpriced PMBs.
Try to find ways to pump your valuation of assets.  Valuing fixed-rate bonds at the compulsory buy-backs was a good start - but that's only inflated it a little bit.

And if my investmetns are so dodgy why is it you always seem to end up holding them?
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August 10, 2013, 11:00:35 PM
 #24

Below quote is from usagi's reddit post - just to show how retarded he is.

The reward that DMS.PURCHASE sees from LTC-ATF.B1 is 2.6% per month (0.6%/week). From this DMS.PURCHASE takes a 3% fee. So on money invested in DMS.PURCHASE, deprived guarantees PURCHASE investors a 2.6% profit (and no more) and guarantees them a 3% loss (management fees). This is the source of the mysterious 0.4% in the following quote:

"When you want to sell your DMS.PURCHASE you just have to list them at the minimum increment below the price at which the fund is trying to sell new units. If you can sell at that price then you only need see 0.4% growth in (NAV/U + payments received) over the NAV/U when you invested to be in profit." (ibid)

PURCHASE does NOT take a management fee on income from investment - only from initial purchases.

The 'mysterious' 0.4% isn't actually all that mysterious at all.  It's a 0.2% BTC-TC fee for buying PURCHASE plus a 0.2% BTC-TC fee for SELLING it.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with anything else.  So long as it makes enough to cover the site fees you don't make a loss - and it's made plenty more than that.

I'm not sure what the fascination is with investment into LTC-ATF.B1 anyway.  DMS has nearly 2K BTC in capital.  Just over 100 BTC is invested in LTC-ATF.B1 - and nothing has EVER been invested in LTC-ATF itself or LTC-ATF.B2 (even though usagi seems to think it has).  The main source of loss (or not making a profit) for investors in PURCHASE (which isn't recommended as an investment anyway - it only exists because there's no other way to easily sell pairs of MINING/SELLING) is the majority of capital which just sits totally unused in its account (which is verifiable due to the API url to view it being published - which anyone can check at any time).
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August 11, 2013, 04:48:47 PM
 #25

Haven't you got better things to be doing?  Like:

Continuing your 'buy-back' offer on BMF which strangely results in outstanding shares count increasing.  As with previous buy-backs seems it's just a feeble attempt to pump the price for you to sell into.

As usual you screw up simple facts and figures. Here's a complete record of all buys and sells done on the BMF account since the repurchase plan was announced:

Code:
8/8/2013 3:12:19	BMF 	buy 	8	0.04299	0.00068784	0.34460784
8/7/2013 2:14:11 BMF buy 5 0.042 0.00042 0.21042
8/6/2013 1:26:39 BMF buy 1 0.0447 0.0000894 0.0447894
8/5/2013 16:01:13 BMF buy 5 0.0447 0.000447 0.223947
8/3/2013 6:33:22 BMF buy 1 0.041 0.000082 0.041082
8/2/2013 9:14:20 BMF buy 10 0.038 0.00076 0.38076
7/27/2013 15:24:15 BMF buy 10 0.039 0.00078 0.39078
7/27/2013 0:16:39 BMF buy 1 0.04 0.00008 0.04008
7/26/2013 22:26:34 BMF buy 100 0.04 0.008 4.008
7/26/2013 20:05:01 BMF buy 50 0.0399 0.00399 1.99899
7/26/2013 19:45:21 BMF buy 20 0.0399 0.001596 0.799596
7/26/2013 19:45:10 BMF buy 4 0.03632 0.00029056 0.14557056
7/26/2013 19:45:08 BMF buy 1 0.036 0.000072 0.036072
7/26/2013 13:06:17 BMF buy 5 0.0399 0.000399 0.199899
7/24/2013 0:08:56 BMF buy 1 0.032989 0.00006597 0.03305497

Notice that all buybacks were done above NAV. Notice that no action that BMF took in any way increased the number of outstanding shares. In fact, the number of outstanding shares has fallen by 222 shares from 4,687 to 4,465 as a result of these buybacks. You can see that on our disclosure page.

And if my investmetns are so dodgy why is it you always seem to end up holding them?

Seriously dude? Just shut the fuck up and have another beer.
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August 11, 2013, 05:05:14 PM
 #26

Haven't you got better things to be doing?  Like:

Continuing your 'buy-back' offer on BMF which strangely results in outstanding shares count increasing.  As with previous buy-backs seems it's just a feeble attempt to pump the price for you to sell into.

As usual you screw up simple facts and figures. Here's a complete record of all buys and sells done on the BMF account since the repurchase plan was announced:

Code:
8/8/2013 3:12:19	BMF 	buy 	8	0.04299	0.00068784	0.34460784
8/7/2013 2:14:11 BMF buy 5 0.042 0.00042 0.21042
8/6/2013 1:26:39 BMF buy 1 0.0447 0.0000894 0.0447894
8/5/2013 16:01:13 BMF buy 5 0.0447 0.000447 0.223947
8/3/2013 6:33:22 BMF buy 1 0.041 0.000082 0.041082
8/2/2013 9:14:20 BMF buy 10 0.038 0.00076 0.38076
7/27/2013 15:24:15 BMF buy 10 0.039 0.00078 0.39078
7/27/2013 0:16:39 BMF buy 1 0.04 0.00008 0.04008
7/26/2013 22:26:34 BMF buy 100 0.04 0.008 4.008
7/26/2013 20:05:01 BMF buy 50 0.0399 0.00399 1.99899
7/26/2013 19:45:21 BMF buy 20 0.0399 0.001596 0.799596
7/26/2013 19:45:10 BMF buy 4 0.03632 0.00029056 0.14557056
7/26/2013 19:45:08 BMF buy 1 0.036 0.000072 0.036072
7/26/2013 13:06:17 BMF buy 5 0.0399 0.000399 0.199899
7/24/2013 0:08:56 BMF buy 1 0.032989 0.00006597 0.03305497

Notice that all buybacks were done above NAV. Notice that no action that BMF took in any way increased the number of outstanding shares. In fact, the number of outstanding shares has fallen by 222 shares from 4,687 to 4,465 as a result of these buybacks. You can see that on our disclosure page.

And if my investmetns are so dodgy why is it you always seem to end up holding them?

Seriously dude? Just shut the fuck up and have another beer.

Mistake I made was thinking you'd finally seen sense and had shares on the exchange matching yoru spreadsheet.

2013-08-06 16:00    ฿ 0.07540800    4713    0.00001600    COMPLETE
2013-08-06 16:00    ฿ 0.03804800    --    --    CANCELED
2013-08-05 17:10    ฿ 0.03682373    4679    0.00000787    COMPLETE
2013-08-05 16:00    ฿ 0.03804800    4679    0.00000813    COMPLETE
2013-08-04 16:01    ฿ 0.03804800    2375    0.00001602    COMPLETE

Dividend record shows that (when I made my post) outstanding shares recorded on the exchange rose from 4679 to 4713 on 6th August (the large rise prior to that was the disclosed movement of Nyan's holdings from the wrong account to the right one).  Easy to make mistakes when the outstanding shares are being fiddled with by holdings that aren't reflected on the exchange.

Have you calculated (and published) how much NAV/U remaining investors lost from you buying back at over current NAV/U?
usagi
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August 11, 2013, 05:33:28 PM
 #27

Have you calculated (and published) how much NAV/U remaining investors lost from you buying back at over current NAV/U?

No, would you like me to?
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