Coinmap.org shows almost no retailers accepting BTC in China/Japan/Taiwan

[jehst]

There are almost no places that accept bitcoins, yet Chinese exchanges trade very high volumes of bitcoins and Mtgox is based in Japan (which means they have no problem withdrawing money via national bank transfer). Avalon ASIC is based in Taiwan. Koreans and Taiwanese high have enough income and are tech savvy enough to adopt bitcoin, but they aren't. A notable exception is Singapore, which has bitcoin meetups and some establishments taking bitcoin, but I think a lot of that is being driven by foreigners.

The Chinese case is the most interesting. I know there are many Chinese bitcoin miners, tons of Chinese exchanges, lots of volume traded, China-based altcoins, a CCTV bitcoin special, and lots of Chinese-language materials for learning about bitcoin. So China seems to have the least excuse of all for no one to be playing with bitcoin in real life.

After thinking about this for a bit, I thought that maybe it's because these are largely cash-based societies. In China, you very rarely use your bank card to buy anything unless it's online. I've watched Chinese people walk into stores with a thousand dollars worth of RMB and buy an iPhone 5. So if they aren't going to use bank cards to buy groceries, they certainly aren't going to use bitcoin.

As someone who is going back to Asia soon, I was thinking of ways to build bitcoin communities and promote bitcoin. Japanese people could use it to protect themselves from the yen's purposeful devaluation. Chinese people could use it to bypass currency controls on the RMB. Taiwan's advanced ASIC industry, fair legal system, and strong property rights would make it an ideal place to mine bitcoins.

What are your thoughts? And how can we infect Asians with the bitcoin virus?

[seedcoin]

I agree that China has a cash based economy but this is changing more and more. Ecommerce has grown exponentially in the past few years which means both credit card payments and ecommerce payment processors (like alipay and tenpay) have also grown very fast.
I trust if either one of the mega ecommerce/internet companies such as Alibaba or Tencent were to accept bitcoin there would be a tremendous growth in bitcoin usage in China. 
These are some numbers I have noted from a recent webinar I participated to and organized by Kapronasia and which I believe will be included in a report they are producing called 'Bitcoin in China' :
- 134 accounts on Tabao and 2 on Paipai accept bitcoin for bitcoin exchange;
- 10 product merchants on Taobao accept bitcoin;
- Yesbtc.co accepts third party Bitcoin transaction guarantees;
- Huanle 95 allows bitcoin to buy phone credit.
Offline only one cafe in beijing accepts bitcoin (but I know of a restaurant accepting bitcoin in Chengdu).

There are 11 transaction platforms in China, most known and used one being BTC China.

I think we'll see these numbers evolving rapidly, China is the second country in the world in terms of bitcoin wallets
84000 wallets in China (still according to kapronasia)

and 14000 bitnodes -> 11.3 % of the world's total.
These numbers being lower than in an article on Coindesk published back in June where China was #1 for bitnodes:
http://www.coindesk.com/chinas-romance-with-bitcoin-continues/

I am based in Hong Kong and often in China so I follow the bitcoin market in China quite closely. If I hear of exciting news I'll let you know and I'll post it on the bitcoinHK twitter account.

fyi I am also organizing Bitcoin Singapore 2013 (www.bitcoinsingapore2013.com) on November 15. If you are in Asia at that time you can come by and meet several Asian cryptocurrency entrepreneurs.

[tristan_luther]

I spend a significant amount of time in China, and I too have been contemplating how to encourage the growth of bitcoin. I would be happy to cooperate in any China bitcoin endeavors. I described in a previous thread what I think needs to be created in order for bitcoin to become something more than just a financial commodity.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301161.0

[b!z]

Perhaps in the future, BTC retailers in those countries will start to be listed on that site.

[Gimmelfarb]

perhaps it is mostly speculation-based (price) and there is not much economic activity in regards to bitcoin at this point?

[mhps]

Bitcoin cannot be legally used as a currency to buy goods and service in China. The Big Brother says so. Individuals can get away with small scale trading (as in trading bottle caps) but business cannot accept it as a currency without risking running into problems with the authority.

[tristan_luther]

perhaps it is mostly speculation-based (price) and there is not much economic activity in regards to bitcoin at this point?

That is correct.

[tristan_luther]

There are hundreds or thousands of hostels throughout China which have international tourists as their primary customer base. These would be ideal businesses to accept bitcoins. One of its primary advantages is the ability to take it anywhere with total security. That is something that anyone who travels wants. I know I plan to travel using bitcoins to pay as many of my expenses as possible, and I am sure as bitcoin grows more and more people will do the same.

[MoneyGod]

perhaps it is mostly speculation-based (price) and there is not much economic activity in regards to bitcoin at this point?

That is correct.

you are right

[seedcoin]

Bitcoin cannot be legally used as a currency to buy goods and service in China. The Big Brother says so. Individuals can get away with small scale trading (as in trading bottle caps) but business cannot accept it as a currency without risking running into problems with the authority.

I am not sure there is a specific law addressing this issue in China yet, of course the only government legal tender is RMB but that would be similar to any other country where legal tender is equally the country's own printed fiat. I know some Chinese suppliers of electronics, for example circuit boards, RAM etc currently accept to sell in BTC, after the transaction they may or may not change BTC into RMB or another currency (if they did convert BTC into RMB which is quite easy in China, the authorities would probably not be aware of the preceding BTC transaction unless the supplier reported it), that is up to the supplier at this point but I am not sure it is considered illegal, I would assume it is one of those issues in a legal grey area for now, tolerated until banned or encouraged, let's hope for the latter...

[mhps]

Bitcoin cannot be legally used as a currency to buy goods and service in China. The Big Brother says so. Individuals can get away with small scale trading (as in trading bottle caps) but business cannot accept it as a currency without risking running into problems with the authority.

I am not sure there is a specific law addressing this issue in China yet

There is an explicit administrative directive forbidding electronic currencies to be used  in exchange of real-world service and goods, issued a few years back. So far Chinese media have treated crytpocurrencies as an interesting phenomena. The authorities won't borther with the the odd small fishes online.

[jehst]

If anyone in Taipei is interested in bitcoin, feel free to contact me. We can talk about bitcoin developments, exchange bitcoins, and hopefully get some meetups started.

[illpoet]

i thought i read somewhere that bitcoins were banned in thailand, but not sure where i read that

[jehst]

It's not true that Thailand banned bitcoin. That was a rumor. Also, no one mentioned Thailand.

[MoneyGod]

It's not true that Thailand banned bitcoin. That was a rumor. Also, no one mentioned Thailand.

its just a rumor I have chat with few guys in Thailand they denied this no ban on bitcoin

[mkbit88]

There are fairly strict capital controls in China (although they have significantly loosened up in the last few years). To be honest, I don't think bitcoins are even on the radar with China's financial regulators. Total market cap of BTC is 1.5 billions USD, give or take - a drop in the bucket. Yes, there may have been an anti e-currency edict, but if this was issued a few years back, it was likely done at a time when it was much harder for people to do forex and/or move currency out of the country. Also, if I recall correctly, most of the e-currencies before bitcoin's time were also shut down in the western world.

China is very much a cash society (seeing people buy iPhones with cash and being impressed is laughable, I've seen cars purchased in cash, big bundles of cash). I don't think this is barrier to BTC in China. In fact, I think it is very much conducive to BTC in China. Its not just a fiat cash society, people like to hold wealth in gold/silver, jewelry, art, jade, and other precious commodities. If BTC price volatility decreases, so it becomes more of a store of wealth then a wild west investment, I can see BTC be added to that list of cash equivalents.

I think the primary actual use of large volumes of BTC in China at the moment is taking ill gotten money and either storing it safely or moving it offshore without triggering any red flags. This, however, is purely speculation.

[jmbb28]

I am involved with the Bitcoin industry in China, and I believe the regulatory uncertainty is the main reason why Bitcoin hasn't taken off in China yet.  Bitcoin is relegated to early adopters and enthusiasts now who just trade it, hold it, or mine it.  But the specter of regulatory crackdown will keep Bitcoin from going mainstream.  Entrepreneurs in China will always push the envelope though; they always have with new technologies in China, if you look at the internet and wireless industries as examples.  China won't crack down unless and until something gets big enough to be a threat, but it is definitely on their radar, as there was an internal report written and circulated around MOFCOM regarding Bitcoin in 2011.  I would hazard to guess that China regulators are also waiting, as a lot of the world is, to see how the US decides to regulate cryptocurrencies.

I would be enthusiastic about helping to grow the Bitcoin community in China, Taiwan, and around Asia.  PM me if you want to connect.

[jehst]

Well, Tokyo/Singapore have bitcoin meetup groups. Here's one for Taipei. Join up if you're in Taiwan or nearby.

http://www.meetup.com/Taipei-Bitcoin-Meetup-Group/

[franky1]

perhaps the reason is more simple then you think.

maybe having multi-lingual instructions to add a location is the answer and then post the link in the asian section of the forum to advertise it is all that is needed...

[LiteCoinGuy]

maybe the problem is, that nobody knows Coinmap.org 

i dont think that there are so less retailers out there.