Bitcoin Profitability? Am I wrong?

[d57heinz]

It's not greed people. It's natural market growth. Happens all the time. Businesses of every kind die every day because things get "commoditized." Most grocery stores run on a 2-5% margin. I certainly couldn't run my business on those margins.

So, my advice (and what I'm doing) is looking for bitcoin businesses to invest in. This truly helps build a bitcoin economy where we all have access to a free market where things get commoditized and sometimes we loose money. That's how free markets work.

Quit looking for others to change their ways so you can make the profit you think you should. That's the crap our governments have been doing, bailing out failing businesses because some rich guys might have to sell a beach house or 2. You made your own fucking decisions. If they didn't work out, learn from it and make the best you can of it, and/or move on.

Free market! It means you may loose money! Wahhhhhhh!

apparently you lack understanding in how this system works.. if the miners don't make money then the whole system collapses PERIOD!!!  Who will mine for free or at a loss ..  nobody in there right mind RIGHT??

Apparently you lack understanding in how this system works. If people believe it's not profitable some will quit mining and then the ones that keep going will then start profiting once again.

There will never again be big profits in mining. But if all you're doing is holding your bitcoin, there is a good chance you can earn a percentage on top of the holding by mining. Instead of putting $200 a month into buying bitcoin, buy electricity and turn that into bitcoin. Over the long term I do believe that mining will continue to be profitable, but we're only talking single digit percentages from now on.

ohh I understand all to well how it works we will see in  a few months how the little guys that shut down made no significant impact...mark my word..the big guys will only get bigger and we will get squeezed out ... 2 ths will be like an 333mhs usb stick by fall you can take that to the moose:)

[cosmicapex]

It's not greed people. It's natural market growth. Happens all the time. Businesses of every kind die every day because things get "commoditized." Most grocery stores run on a 2-5% margin. I certainly couldn't run my business on those margins.

So, my advice (and what I'm doing) is looking for bitcoin businesses to invest in. This truly helps build a bitcoin economy where we all have access to a free market where things get commoditized and sometimes we loose money. That's how free markets work.

Quit looking for others to change their ways so you can make the profit you think you should. That's the crap our governments have been doing, bailing out failing businesses because some rich guys might have to sell a beach house or 2. You made your own fucking decisions. If they didn't work out, learn from it and make the best you can of it, and/or move on.

Free market! It means you may loose money! Wahhhhhhh!

apparently you lack understanding in how this system works.. if the miners don't make money then the whole system collapses PERIOD!!!  Who will mine for free or at a loss ..  nobody in there right mind RIGHT??

You're forgetting that if people stop mining the difficulty goes down; it's not as if difficulty goes up all the time, people keep mining more and mining hardware gets more powerful every month.

In other words, if almost everyone stopped mining, mining would become profitable again.

[xstr8guy]

It's not greed people. It's natural market growth. Happens all the time. Businesses of every kind die every day because things get "commoditized." Most grocery stores run on a 2-5% margin. I certainly couldn't run my business on those margins.

So, my advice (and what I'm doing) is looking for bitcoin businesses to invest in. This truly helps build a bitcoin economy where we all have access to a free market where things get commoditized and sometimes we loose money. That's how free markets work.

Quit looking for others to change their ways so you can make the profit you think you should. That's the crap our governments have been doing, bailing out failing businesses because some rich guys might have to sell a beach house or 2. You made your own fucking decisions. If they didn't work out, learn from it and make the best you can of it, and/or move on.

Free market! It means you may loose money! Wahhhhhhh!

apparently you lack understanding in how this system works.. if the miners don't make money then the whole system collapses PERIOD!!!  Who will mine for free or at a loss ..  nobody in there right mind RIGHT??

You're forgetting that if people stop mining the difficulty goes down; it's not as if difficulty goes up all the time, people keep mining more and mining hardware gets more powerful every month.

In other words, if almost everyone stopped mining, mining would become profitable again.

Only the small at-home miners will shutdown when it becomes unprofitable for them. The massive mining operations will keep adding hashrate for a long time because they have the advantages of economy-of -scale, private manufacturing, cheap electricity and free cooling (arctic air).

[DrG]

Well it looks like we're on track to have a massive bump in difficulty this coming adjustment.  If those early BFL/Avalon units haven't shut off yet this will probably be the death knell (for any home users anyway).

[nwfella]

Well it looks like we're on track to have a massive bump in difficulty this coming adjustment.  If those early BFL/Avalon units haven't shut off yet this will probably be the death knell (for any home users anyway).

Sure enough.  Will be shutting my square beauties down next jump.  Electric only 0.07/kw hour too :/

Oh well, maybe I'll get to turn them back on someday when bitcoin spikes again (yeah baby)

[TheMinex]

Assuming that:

Difficult adjust are done to make mining profit a marginal gain activity on the long run

At this point will you run a 1 Ph/s farm ( wich is, @0,5w/ghs, 500Kwh, industrial power cost less, but is compensed by huge A/C ( near +70/80 Kwh) required in both summer and winter ) for 1000 satoshi or 1Th/s consuming 500w for 1 satoshi (no A/C + added walue in winter)  
In the case that those 1000 will still profitable, what if some btc fanatic will continue mining @ loss having same efficiency, makeing drop those 1000 Satoshi to 950   Or who will mine if there will be a drop in btc/usd, who spend K$ bill or that btc fanatic
 
In my long fantastic view, there will be a point when a huge amounth of power used in farm will be not sustainable in term of returns. Maybe i'm dreaming but I don't see any worry about centralization.

[skydigger]

Homeminers or Big boys doesn't matter, If Bitcoin drops to $200 say, It's over. Nobody will mine then.

With all due respect for Bitcoin, I don't understand how oz of GOLD can worth $1300 while Bitcoin

worth $600. I mean What tape of Money you need to invest to be able to mine GOLD? see the

difference? Well, I guess GOLD is down due to Corrupt Gov. Paper GOLD manipulation.

[TheMinex]

You probably didn't see the last reward half. In that time miners istantaneously see incomes drop from 50 BTC to 25 BTC, and hash rate continued smootly.

[Trimegistus]

Maybe you are all right to say small miners like me are doomed. Maybe you are right when you claim individual mining days are over....

But you are also right when you mention greed as being one of the key drives behind all this!

If you take a look at http://www.worldcoinindex.com/Trending and follow the trends you will realize that almost every day a crypto currency that had a huge increase the day before is plummeting today.

How many crypto currencies have erupted and disappeared in these last few months? How much money has been earned trading with these meteoric currencies? How much money has been made just by taking advantage of these new currencies, without mining for them at all?

And what about the multicurrency pools? Are they dead too? Or can they take advantage of the crazy market and continually provide a fair profit by mining alt coins instead of just BTC and LTC? Maybe with increasingly smart algorithms these pools can keep up with the market variations and provide a steady income by exploiting the greed of others.

These multicurrency pools are keeping a dynamic market, mining alt coins, trading them and converting them to BTC and LTC. Will this keep on being profitable?

I believe so, as long as there are new currencies erupting and new crypto currencies users joining the ranks every day. I have faith and I’ll keep on mining for as long I can.

In short, the pump-and-dump phenomena, fuelled by the greed of a few smart asses, can also be exploited to keep the market working, generating new revenue from transaction fees and sustaining the expansion of crypto currencies all over the world.

[d57heinz]

Maybe you are all right to say small miners like me are doomed. Maybe you are right when you claim individual mining days are over....

But you are also right when you mention greed as being one of the key drives behind all this!

If you take a look at http://www.worldcoinindex.com/Trending and follow the trends you will realize that almost every day a crypto currency that had a huge increase the day before is plummeting today.

How many crypto currencies have erupted and disappeared in these last few months? How much money has been earned trading with these meteoric currencies? How much money has been made just by taking advantage of these new currencies, without mining for them at all?

And what about the multicurrency pools? Are they dead too? Or can they take advantage of the crazy market and continually provide a fair profit by mining alt coins instead of just BTC and LTC? Maybe with increasingly smart algorithms these pools can keep up with the market variations and provide a steady income by exploiting the greed of others.

These multicurrency pools are keeping a dynamic market, mining alt coins, trading them and converting them to BTC and LTC. Will this keep on being profitable?

I believe so, as long as there are new currencies erupting and new crypto currencies users joining the ranks every day. I have faith and I’ll keep on mining for as long I can.

In short, the pump-and-dump phenomena, fuelled by the greed of a few smart asses, can also be exploited to keep the market working, generating new revenue from transaction fees and sustaining the expansion of crypto currencies all over the world.

Very good points..  Im in agreement on the multipools with there schemes. but  its what kills most of the new coins also.. taking large amounts of hash and throwing it at new coins.. I feel all these new coins are doing is holding back bitcoin and litecoin form becoming what it should be  could you all imagine the price of btc and ltc if we did have all these stupid alt coins to dilute the market???  id say we be at 1000 for btc and least 50 per ltc  just rought guess tho...

[Trimegistus]

Very good points..  Im in agreement on the multipools with there schemes. but  its what kills most of the new coins also.. taking large amounts of hash and throwing it at new coins.. I feel all these new coins are doing is holding back bitcoin and litecoin form becoming what it should be  could you all imagine the price of btc and ltc if we did have all these stupid alt coins to dilute the market???  id say we be at 1000 for btc and least 50 per ltc  just rought guess tho...

And can you imagine the difficulty levels if we were all mining just BTC and LTC instead of mining altcoins?

I’m not saying this is the ideal situation, I’m saying it can be exploited to our (small miners) own benefit. How long will it last?  Who knows?