Amazon Patent from 2014 seeks to de-anonymize crypto transactions

[epidose]

Hey

Did a quick search and didn't see this posted yet. Found this interesting overview of a patent that Amazon filed in 2014, a few years before they bought those domains (amazonethereum.com, amazoncryptocurrency.com, amazoncryptocurrencies.com.)

http://darkcitycrypto.com/index.php/2018/04/19/amazon-filed-a-patent-to-de-anonymize-bitcoin-transactions-and-sell-the-data-to-law-enforcement/

The article states a few use-case scenarios for why Amazon might do this, which basically summarize to being able to determine physical addresses behind crypto transactions:

The purpose here would be to combine data from different retailers and look for common points, such as a shipping address or IP logs and then start to put together a picture of the real identity of the person using Bitcoin or any other crypto currency.

Personally, I'm not sure I see a negative here (as a crypto user), other than the potential of *more* targeted ads; however, I certainly don't see how this might benefit me (or the community) in any way.

What are your thoughts? any potential red flags I'm not seeing?

Any potential positive outcomes?

[Xester]

Hey

Did a quick search and didn't see this posted yet. Found this interesting overview of a patent that Amazon filed in 2014, a few years before they bought those domains (amazonethereum.com, amazoncryptocurrency.com, amazoncryptocurrencies.com.)

http://darkcitycrypto.com/index.php/2018/04/19/amazon-filed-a-patent-to-de-anonymize-bitcoin-transactions-and-sell-the-data-to-law-enforcement/

The article states a few use-case scenarios for why Amazon might do this, which basically summarize to being able to determine physical addresses behind crypto transactions:

The purpose here would be to combine data from different retailers and look for common points, such as a shipping address or IP logs and then start to put together a picture of the real identity of the person using Bitcoin or any other crypto currency.

Personally, I'm not sure I see a negative here (as a crypto user), other than the potential of *more* targeted ads; however, I certainly don't see how this might benefit me (or the community) in any way.

What are your thoughts? any potential red flags I'm not seeing?

Any potential positive outcomes?

This has both a positive and negative impact. To people who have nothing to hide and wanted a transparent transactions then it is an advantage to them since the transactions are traceable and if there will be complains it is easy to settle with the records being transparent online. This is also an advantage to people who hid their identity for protection purposes as they cannot buy things online without displaying their identity.

[Pan Troglodytes]

If it were true, then definitely it is a bothering and worrying news. I am going to great length to make sure I transact crypto anonymously (including using public networks as IP providers) but I am sure I make mistake here and there (I am even aware of some information leaks I did in the past) and I would hate to know that some agency is puting that information together to try and deanonymise me... I am quite sure that in spite of all my efforts, eventually they would be successful.

[nmax21]

I think in this situation there is no point in this, because you can always create another purse, or bring it to the exchange and exchange your coins for others. Therefore, this patent has not been implemented.

[epidose]

If it were true, then definitely it is a bothering and worrying news. I am going to great length to make sure I transact crypto anonymously (including using public networks as IP providers) but I am sure I make mistake here and there (I am even aware of some information leaks I did in the past) and I would hate to know that some agency is puting that information together to try and deanonymise me... I am quite sure that in spite of all my efforts, eventually they would be successful.

Feel free not to answer, but out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to go to such great lengths about covering your tracks?

I have to assume it's not necessarily related to illegal activities, but what difference does it make if (hypothetically), there is 'visibility' over you using Crypto X, y or Z to purchase a Steam game?

[Pan Troglodytes]

If it were true, then definitely it is a bothering and worrying news. I am going to great length to make sure I transact crypto anonymously (including using public networks as IP providers) but I am sure I make mistake here and there (I am even aware of some information leaks I did in the past) and I would hate to know that some agency is puting that information together to try and deanonymise me... I am quite sure that in spite of all my efforts, eventually they would be successful.

Feel free not to answer, but out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to go to such great lengths about covering your tracks?

I have to assume it's not necessarily related to illegal activities, but what difference does it make if (hypothetically), there is 'visibility' over you using Crypto X, y or Z to purchase a Steam game?

No it is not, obviously, if it were illegal I would not be speaking of it openly in a public forum... But then there are some capital gains which you might want to cash out in a bitcoin friendly tax free country without worrying for the next 5  or 10 years of your greedy tax authorities coming back to you... and things like pure ideals and values - right to privacy,  right to anonymity. For the same reasons I am paying with cash not my VISA whenever I can and not using FB... I just hate the idea of somebody following my tracks

[Kprawn]

If it were true, then definitely it is a bothering and worrying news. I am going to great length to make sure I transact crypto anonymously (including using public networks as IP providers) but I am sure I make mistake here and there (I am even aware of some information leaks I did in the past) and I would hate to know that some agency is puting that information together to try and deanonymise me... I am quite sure that in spite of all my efforts, eventually they would be successful.

Feel free not to answer, but out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to go to such great lengths about covering your tracks?

I have to assume it's not necessarily related to illegal activities, but what difference does it make if (hypothetically), there is 'visibility' over you using Crypto X, y or Z to purchase a Steam game?

It is called Privacy. Why do organizations like Amazon need to know what your spending habits are and who are they sharing

that data with? Most people will say that it is for targeting advertising, but will you be satisfied if you bought sexy lingerie

for your partner or your girlfriend and every time you open your browser or some site, you get bombarded with sex ads?

Will they keep that data safe? Will that data be shared or sold to marketers?

[epidose]

If it were true, then definitely it is a bothering and worrying news. I am going to great length to make sure I transact crypto anonymously (including using public networks as IP providers) but I am sure I make mistake here and there (I am even aware of some information leaks I did in the past) and I would hate to know that some agency is puting that information together to try and deanonymise me... I am quite sure that in spite of all my efforts, eventually they would be successful.

Feel free not to answer, but out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to go to such great lengths about covering your tracks?

I have to assume it's not necessarily related to illegal activities, but what difference does it make if (hypothetically), there is 'visibility' over you using Crypto X, y or Z to purchase a Steam game?

It is called Privacy. Why do organizations like Amazon need to know what your spending habits are and who are they sharing

that data with? Most people will say that it is for targeting advertising, but will you be satisfied if you bought sexy lingerie

for your partner or your girlfriend and every time you open your browser or some site, you get bombarded with sex ads?

Will they keep that data safe? Will that data be shared or sold to marketers?

Yea don't get me wrong, I get privacy concerns and specify exactly the risk of having more ad spams as a direct result of a patent/tech like this. Was just curious / making discussion, but I certainly don't use VPNs or public IPs when making all my purchases - although I certainly do use cash over credit card whenever possible.

And totally agree that this is borderline nefarious for Amazon to be reverse engineering anyone's spending habits as a means for their own gains, by no means do I support something like this.

Again, just open discussion as I'm trying to better understand the philosophy of people with different opinions.

[BrewMaster]

the thing about bitcoin is that it is already not anonymous but at the same time if someone wanted to remain anonymous they will remain anonymous. in other words things like "de-anonymizing", "blockchain analysis",... are not going to work for those who wanted to remain anonymous. it can certainly work for regular users but again why would anyone want to track regular users and see what they are doing?

also lets not forget that those who want to really stay anonymous like those doing something illegal are doing it with cash or some of them with real anon coins like Monero.

[keycellko]

Well if you think about it, they are able to do that. Once you order through amazon, you need to setup an account. It has to verify your identity as well as your address because that's where they'll ship your bought items. So they are able to deanonimize bitcoin holders if you use bitcoin in paying. And this might help police or the governnment in tracking people involved in illegal activities.

[Pan Troglodytes]

Well if you think about it, they are able to do that. Once you order through amazon, you need to setup an account. It has to verify your identity as well as your address because that's where they'll ship your bought items. So they are able to deanonimize bitcoin holders if you use bitcoin in paying. And this might help police or the governnment in tracking people involved in illegal activities.

Definition of illegal may change in a very deep sense, mate. I don't know your experience or what country you are from, but in my country we had a very bleak period not so long ago, with people targeted and imprisoned for their believes and their political views. We only recently were able to restore more democratic system. But with recent political changes in Europe and generally across many countries in the world maybe we are entering more bleak era again. I don't know about other countries, but in my country we are hearing about political imprisonments again. Definitely I would go to great lengths to protect my privacy and basic rights against governments and corporations, which can sell or disclose their data to governments.

[Veterock]

I still do not see what we should discuss? What did they do in addition to buying the domains?

[Powerpuff]

Governments are not going to be excluded from crypto. On the contrary, they will demand their slice of the pie, and they are able to get it. There is no point in fighting this. If crypto is ever going to be mainstream, it WILL be just as transparent as existing banking, and for the same reasons. All sorts of firms will devise all sorts of ways to attach identity data to transactions - very possibly retrospectively.

The big win here, if we can get mass adoption, is a monetary system that no government can abuse or interfere with. If Bitcoin, or Ether, or any other coin, becomes massive, at the very least it will force some big governments to be much more disciplined in their monetary and fiscal policy.

[Pursuer]

It is called Privacy. Why do organizations like Amazon need to know what your spending habits are 

to make more money of course!
there is a huge market for it. from advertisers to government. and when there is a demand for some service there will be supply for it at some point too. for example there have been hacks of exchanges, wallet hacks,... scams, Ponzi schemes that ran way,... and  lot of things like that. their company can advertise that they can catch these people and get paid to "try". and there is always the government that they can sell this information to!

in any case this is old news and it is not the first company to offer such services. and won't be the last.

[kryptqnick]

I think in this situation there is no point in this, because you can always create another purse, or bring it to the exchange and exchange your coins for others. Therefore, this patent has not been implemented.

You decide to buy some goods for cryptocurrencies. Yes, you may transfer crypto payment from an exchange and this way they can't really be sure of your wallet. However, they will know at least the minimum some you spent on Amazon during one purchase, and they'll know it belongs to you.
I think that full de-anonimization is fortunately impossible and that attempts to do that are not justified. Perhaps, they could set a sum of money and not consider anything less than that, but checking everything is corrupting one's privacy, especially taking into consideration the fact that cryptocurrencies have a rtaher unstable legal status in most of the countries.

[yojodojo21]

This is not a good idea if they are going to de-anonymize the crypto transactions then they prefer identities hovering.? I don't think so that it can be a good impact.  I think if they are afraid of some sort of tracing identities if things don't go well then maybe KYC  is better, by level 1-3 of verification (but it will take time for sure) rather than de-anonymity.

[Herbert2020]

I think in this situation there is no point in this, because you can always create another purse, or bring it to the exchange and exchange your coins for others. Therefore, this patent has not been implemented.

You decide to buy some goods for cryptocurrencies. Yes, you may transfer crypto payment from an exchange and this way they can't really be sure of your wallet. However, they will know at least the minimum some you spent on Amazon during one purchase, and they'll know it belongs to you.
I think that full de-anonimization is fortunately impossible and that attempts to do that are not justified. Perhaps, they could set a sum of money and not consider anything less than that, but checking everything is corrupting one's privacy, especially taking into consideration the fact that cryptocurrencies have a rtaher unstable legal status in most of the countries.

it is usually called blockchain analysis, you can take a look at walletexplorer.com to get a feeling of what it will look like although that is already a preview of what the company behind that website is doing but it should be enough to see how it is done. it is basically linking addresses together (from the blockchain itself) and with all the other information you can find from the internet then try and link it to individuals. it is based on amounts, timing, transactions, ...