ENVION FRAUD

[gabrielepopa]

Honestly, I agree with Mark about the whole thing, there are way too many redflags and the smell of fraud is leaking everywhere.
First of all, for the sake of investors Envion should prove immediately that they are a real company. How to do that?
Give legal adress and especially whareouse adress so they can invite potential costumers to take a tour.
Make videos and photos of the team working, videos and photos of people actually working on the container not fake interviews of Matthias talking with a greenscreen depicting Fankfurt financial center.
Second: why the f**k a seroius company like Envion keeps the owners of the company in shadows? Do you know why Envion is giving up the names of the team members? Because they will have no penal responsability if everything goes wrong.
Third: if the so called CTO Matthias is half of what he claims to be ( investing 300ml € in solar energy) why the hell should he need tiny random investors from bitcointalk. A man of his caliber, with a strong financial background has, for sure, ties with the german financial hub and does not need 1000 people investing 2-3k in his enterprise.
Envion wants to collect money from as many people as possible because people who invest 2-3k is not going to risk to hire a lawyer to get some saved money back.
Fourth: Where does the money go? From as far as I know it could go into a bank account called charity and end of story. Envion should give IBAN or bank wire account of the destination. Here we go with the fifth.
Fifth: Envion is a swiss startup operating in germany...why is that?
If everybody reads the whitepaper carefully it states that American citizens and green card holders cannot participate to ICO. The reason behind this is simple, swiss bank account holders have something called professional secrecy wich protects the account holder( ex. Banks do not have to give id of their costumers to law enforcement agencies)
The only way to bypass that is to commit an action that it is considered crime in both US and Swizerland and that the owner can be prosecuted in one of these countries. Hence, if he commits fraud to a US citizen and it is sued by him/her, its bananas in the dark hole for the account owner.
PEOPLE PLEASE RAISE YOUR AWARNESS, SAME GOES FOR THE MODERATORS

[fm1984]

@Envion


Any answers? Is this a scam? I would like to see more videos of this working container with miners in it. Shouldn't´t be that difficult. If their technology is patented then they should not have any fears people stealing their Idea.

Companies like this, should have an open house and let investors see before announcing ICO... Example (maybe not the perfect example) Giga-Watt in the USA. They have their shortages but before the ICO you could go and talk to the founders

Honestly, I agree with Mark about the whole thing, there are way too many redflags and the smell of fraud is leaking everywhere.
First of all, for the sake of investors Envion should prove immediately that they are a real company. How to do that?
Give legal adress and especially whareouse adress so they can invite potential costumers to take a tour.
Make videos and photos of the team working, videos and photos of people actually working on the container not fake interviews of Matthias talking with a greenscreen depicting Fankfurt financial center.
Second: why the f**k a seroius company like Envion keeps the owners of the company in shadows? Do you know why Envion is giving up the names of the team members? Because they will have no penal responsability if everything goes wrong.
Third: if the so called CTO Matthias is half of what he claims to be ( investing 300ml € in solar energy) why the hell should he need tiny random investors from bitcointalk. A man of his caliber, with a strong financial background has, for sure, ties with the german financial hub and does not need 1000 people investing 2-3k in his enterprise.
Envion wants to collect money from as many people as possible because people who invest 2-3k is not going to risk to hire a lawyer to get some saved money back.
Fourth: Where does the money go? From as far as I know it could go into a bank account called charity and end of story. Envion should give IBAN or bank wire account of the destination. Here we go with the fifth.
Fifth: Envion is a swiss startup operating in germany...why is that?
If everybody reads the whitepaper carefully it states that American citizens and green card holders cannot participate to ICO. The reason behind this is simple, swiss bank account holders have something called professional secrecy wich protects the account holder( ex. Banks do not have to give id of their costumers to law enforcement agencies)
The only way to bypass that is to commit an action that it is considered crime in both US and Swizerland and that the owner can be prosecuted in one of these countries. Hence, if he commits fraud to a US citizen and it is sued by him/her, its bananas in the dark hole for the account owner.
PEOPLE PLEASE RAISE YOUR AWARNESS, SAME GOES FOR THE MODERATORS

[envion]

Honestly, I agree with Mark about the whole thing, there are way too many redflags and the smell of fraud is leaking everywhere.
First of all, for the sake of investors Envion should prove immediately that they are a real company. How to do that?
Give legal adress and especially whareouse adress so they can invite potential costumers to take a tour.
Make videos and photos of the team working, videos and photos of people actually working on the container not fake interviews of Matthias talking with a greenscreen depicting Fankfurt financial center.
Second: why the f**k a seroius company like Envion keeps the owners of the company in shadows? Do you know why Envion is giving up the names of the team members? Because they will have no penal responsability if everything goes wrong.
Third: if the so called CTO Matthias is half of what he claims to be ( investing 300ml € in solar energy) why the hell should he need tiny random investors from bitcointalk. A man of his caliber, with a strong financial background has, for sure, ties with the german financial hub and does not need 1000 people investing 2-3k in his enterprise.
Envion wants to collect money from as many people as possible because people who invest 2-3k is not going to risk to hire a lawyer to get some saved money back.
Fourth: Where does the money go? From as far as I know it could go into a bank account called charity and end of story. Envion should give IBAN or bank wire account of the destination. Here we go with the fifth.
Fifth: Envion is a swiss startup operating in germany...why is that?
If everybody reads the whitepaper carefully it states that American citizens and green card holders cannot participate to ICO. The reason behind this is simple, swiss bank account holders have something called professional secrecy wich protects the account holder( ex. Banks do not have to give id of their costumers to law enforcement agencies)
The only way to bypass that is to commit an action that it is considered crime in both US and Swizerland and that the owner can be prosecuted in one of these countries. Hence, if he commits fraud to a US citizen and it is sued by him/her, its bananas in the dark hole for the account owner.
PEOPLE PLEASE RAISE YOUR AWARNESS, SAME GOES FOR THE MODERATORS

We did a visit and investors and guests were able to meet the team and see the functioning mining unit.  You can watch it here: https://t.me/ENVION_Ann/40

Envion has now been approached by a sovereign wealth fund and one of the largest banks in the world for investment after the ICO.  The ICO is still necessary to activate funds immediately so we can start production in January.  However, I think the legitimacy and effectiveness of our CEO is without reproach in light of this development: https://medium.com/@envion/envion-evolves-to-higher-levels-broader-public-and-new-ico-dateenvion-ico-announcement-change-e9f6ad69ed91

We have moved our ICO sale start date to December 15th in order to publish cross-border prospectuses prior to the ICO to take advantage of these offers.  As a result ALL SWISS INVESTORS MAY PARTICIPATE without restriction.

Thanks for raising these issues.  I think anyone interested in envion will find that they have been more than adequately addressed.  

[AzakeB]

Real people from a real company invited to a real investor meetup in Berlin. They showcased their MMU and everything seemed to be very solid.
It feels you didn't assess this project enough.

[fm1984]

Real people from a real company invited to a real investor meetup in Berlin. They showcased their MMU and everything seemed to be very solid.
It feels you didn't assess this project enough.

That is not the point, I think you don't get it actually. Surely they are real, the main point is


The idea of putting 90 ASIC miners in a container and claiming with 25% reinvestment budget they can compete with large industrial mining farms, in a time difficulty goes up while new miners come every few months, and promising 160% profit in the first year, is RIDICULOUS. They clearly don't understand how the mining industry works. Bitmain D3 and L3+ miners for example barely make profit. Imagine them putting this miners in their MMU. Just do the math! But nice for you that you met this real people! Just don't count on that 160% in first year. I dare you, please invest and let me know in one year how you fared lol

[AzakeB]

Real people from a real company invited to a real investor meetup in Berlin. They showcased their MMU and everything seemed to be very solid.
It feels you didn't assess this project enough.

That is not the point, I think you don't get it actually. Surely they are real, the main point is


The idea of putting 90 ASIC miners in a container and claiming with 25% reinvestment budget they can compete with large industrial mining farms, in a time difficulty goes up while new miners come every few months, and promising 160% profit in the first year, is RIDICULOUS. They clearly don't understand how the mining industry works. Bitmain D3 and L3+ miners for example barely make profit. Imagine them putting this miners in their MMU. Just do the math! But nice for you that you met this real people! Just don't count on that 160% in first year. I dare you, please invest and let me know in one year how you fared lol

You are talking about mining and missing the whole purpose of MMUs and it's unique way acquiring deals with renewable energy plants, while bitmain just sits in some places where it's getting cheap power.
Difficulty can be calculated and is considered already in the ROI.
You are missing out the whole point of envion but hey if you want to talk about mining in general, there are several other threads.
Moreover where in my statement do I not get the point of what gabrielepopa is accusing?

you are talking about mining, he is talking about something else.

[ieatbitcoinforbreakfast]

Envion is a TOTAL scam...

Here are the reasons:
1) The container is supposed to contain something like a hundred or more miners. Now, each miner is generally around 1K of Watts, so we'd be looking at about 100K of Watts in a space the size of a closet. By comparison, if you plug in a 100W bulb into a socket in a medium size room, the room will get warm within an hour. A closet would get uncomfortably warm after about 15 minutes if there was a 100W bulb turned on. But we are talking here not a 100W bulb, but about ONE THOUSAND 100W bulbs!!!! The freaking container would simply melt! OK, so the sly dogs come up with some revolutionary cooling technology that nobody heard about and they show little plastic elbows sticking out of the container... C'mon guys! How stupid do you think we are?

2) They are using a full fledged desktop Mac inside the container to manage the miners... Really? Why on earth would anyone spend 3-5X as much as a simple Linux laptop on a stupid computer to manage miners? Not to mention the fact that the Mac would invariably topple on its way to the solar plant.

3) The satelite antenna on top of the container -- it looks as silly as the one Buzz Aldrin used when he went to the moon and drove around in that ridiculous lunar vehicle (yeah, right!)

4) The white paper is pure nonsense. The nadir of stupidity they try to cram into investors' heads is the "schematic" of a custom-designed circuit (as they call them PCBs, or Printed Circuit Boards) responsible for some magic (Firgure 9 on page 29). Alas, the board looks NOTHING like a circuit board. Also, they don't explain why would ANYONE go to the lengths of designing a circuit board when a simple software solution can be had for a fraction of the cost!

5) The CEO of Envion is seen in a YouTube interview standing against a sign that reads "Frankfurt Burse" -- why is he at the Burse? (Unless, of course, as someone else already suggested, he's standing against a green wall...

6) The expected returns on investments are stated as if they were given, outside of any conditions. SERIOUSLY? Any serious company seeking funds would hedge such speculations with a 10 thousand word safe harbour statement, effectively eliminating any hope of such returns.

7) They show ZERO respect for the investors' intelligence. Consider the following mumbo-jumbo (on page 51 of the white-paper): "The Ornstein–
Uhlenbeck process was proposed by Uhlenbeck and Ornstein in 1930 and is an adaption
of Brownian Motion, which models the movement of a free particle through liquid and was
first developed by Albert Einstein. It satisfies the stochastic differential equation,
dX(t) = θ(μ − X(t)) dt + σ dB(t)
where B(t) is standard Brownian Motion, θ > 0 is the rate of mean reversion, μ is the
equilibrium level and σ > 0 is the average magnitude of the random fluctuations that are
modelled as Brownian motions. This gives the following prognosis for a ETH/USD price
chart (which, naturally, does not account for externalities, and is therefore not to be seen as
a binding statement)."

C'mon dudes!

The entire premise is suggested as follows: the cost of electricity varies from place to place and from time to time. Here's an excerpt: "California. On a sunny spring day, the state produces so much solar energy that utility companies have to give away gigawatts of solar power, even paying neighboring states to accept it." Therefore, we'll create thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of MMUs (Mobile Mining Units) and move them around the world between the spots with the absolutely cheapest elctric power.... Today we mine in Chile, tomorrow in California, and on Tuesday in Sahara! Because hauling all this equipment is so much cheaper than spending an extra cent on elctric power in the same spot.

OK, the list goes on and on. If anyone is stupid to believe in this scam... well, it's his or her money! Go ahead and give these scam artists some dough -- maybe they'll come back and entertain us with even more ridiculous projects with catchy names like ENVION, that is crafted to instill a desire for envious technology and profits.

[nvedia]

This link is also worth the read
https://medium.com/the-mission/crypto-mining-icos-whitepapers-review-hydrominer-ice-rock-miner-and-envion-d6a50c1ba781
How did they come with the % yearly returns mentioned on the website ?

[orimar]

This seems to make sense here. Anyone care to say otherwise? What coins do you invest in then? I guess I was a bit naive to this tech speak. Seemed plausible to me.

Envion is a TOTAL scam...

Here are the reasons:
1) The container is supposed to contain something like a hundred or more miners. Now, each miner is generally around 1K of Watts, so we'd be looking at about 100K of Watts in a space the size of a closet. By comparison, if you plug in a 100W bulb into a socket in a medium size room, the room will get warm within an hour. A closet would get uncomfortably warm after about 15 minutes if there was a 100W bulb turned on. But we are talking here not a 100W bulb, but about ONE THOUSAND 100W bulbs!!!! The freaking container would simply melt! OK, so the sly dogs come up with some revolutionary cooling technology that nobody heard about and they show little plastic elbows sticking out of the container... C'mon guys! How stupid do you think we are?

2) They are using a full fledged desktop Mac inside the container to manage the miners... Really? Why on earth would anyone spend 3-5X as much as a simple Linux laptop on a stupid computer to manage miners? Not to mention the fact that the Mac would invariably topple on its way to the solar plant.

3) The satelite antenna on top of the container -- it looks as silly as the one Buzz Aldrin used when he went to the moon and drove around in that ridiculous lunar vehicle (yeah, right!)

4) The white paper is pure nonsense. The nadir of stupidity they try to cram into investors' heads is the "schematic" of a custom-designed circuit (as they call them PCBs, or Printed Circuit Boards) responsible for some magic (Firgure 9 on page 29). Alas, the board looks NOTHING like a circuit board. Also, they don't explain why would ANYONE go to the lengths of designing a circuit board when a simple software solution can be had for a fraction of the cost!

5) The CEO of Envion is seen in a YouTube interview standing against a sign that reads "Frankfurt Burse" -- why is he at the Burse? (Unless, of course, as someone else already suggested, he's standing against a green wall...

6) The expected returns on investments are stated as if they were given, outside of any conditions. SERIOUSLY? Any serious company seeking funds would hedge such speculations with a 10 thousand word safe harbour statement, effectively eliminating any hope of such returns.

7) They show ZERO respect for the investors' intelligence. Consider the following mumbo-jumbo (on page 51 of the white-paper): "The Ornstein–
Uhlenbeck process was proposed by Uhlenbeck and Ornstein in 1930 and is an adaption
of Brownian Motion, which models the movement of a free particle through liquid and was
first developed by Albert Einstein. It satisfies the stochastic differential equation,
dX(t) = θ(μ − X(t)) dt + σ dB(t)
where B(t) is standard Brownian Motion, θ > 0 is the rate of mean reversion, μ is the
equilibrium level and σ > 0 is the average magnitude of the random fluctuations that are
modelled as Brownian motions. This gives the following prognosis for a ETH/USD price
chart (which, naturally, does not account for externalities, and is therefore not to be seen as
a binding statement)."

C'mon dudes!

The entire premise is suggested as follows: the cost of electricity varies from place to place and from time to time. Here's an excerpt: "California. On a sunny spring day, the state produces so much solar energy that utility companies have to give away gigawatts of solar power, even paying neighboring states to accept it." Therefore, we'll create thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of MMUs (Mobile Mining Units) and move them around the world between the spots with the absolutely cheapest elctric power.... Today we mine in Chile, tomorrow in California, and on Tuesday in Sahara! Because hauling all this equipment is so much cheaper than spending an extra cent on elctric power in the same spot.

OK, the list goes on and on. If anyone is stupid to believe in this scam... well, it's his or her money! Go ahead and give these scam artists some dough -- maybe they'll come back and entertain us with even more ridiculous projects with catchy names like ENVION, that is crafted to instill a desire for envious technology and profits.

[lotfiuser]

i was going to invest in there ico but after reading it i will look more if its scam or just another token

[lotfiuser]

deam it just invested 0.2 eth lets see

[angjosh]

Envion will be on HitBtc soon..this is a good thing for all the haters

[allanr]

Yeah i dont know whats going on but a hundred asic miner in one container doesnt seems right to me, I mean lest think about how hot will be in there ? I have 7 asic and my basement feel like in the the beach if im not runing all that cooler. Anyway no matter what happend that coin will launch though.

[Tapyaks72]

Real people from a real company invited to a real investor meetup in Berlin. They showcased their MMU and everything seemed to be very solid.
It feels you didn't assess this project enough.

Lets give the benifits of the doubt let them prove why they worth the trust of investors, according to thier white paper thier technical presentations I think it is feasible but hopefully it works.because most what I appreciate are thus project that have a connections about green energy protecting the evironment.If we invest must our future and then why we shouldn't invest to protect our mother earth.

[BrainyNetwork]

https://medium.com/@TradoGmbH/envion-founders-sue-for-worlds-first-analogue-ico-hacking-4fa42a636104

OP was a genius.

[davey76]

Yes, he is indeed!