Truth about C.A.T. Cryptsy Automatic Trader

[uozer]

i wanted to warn anyone who is considering to buy CAT:

- this is an automated bot
- it only automates buy and sell orders, so instead of you logging into the site, it will do it for you
- it does not have any strategy embedded in the code
- it will keep buying and selling in the markets you chose with 'scalping'
- inherently this results in gains in rising 'bull' markets, but you will get stuck with a losing coin if a market becomes a falling 'bear' market
- which means you should only trade in bull markets (duh!)
- CAT cant tell you which ones are bull
- if you were to know which ones are bull, you wouldnt be scalping, you would be keeping the coins. you wouldnt need to buy and sell, buy and sell. it doesnt make sense. you dont need it, you need to stick to your rising coin and get rid of falling coin.
- therefore there is no benefit of CAT, since it buys and sells and buys and sells .... in a bull market (which is something you wouldnt want) and it gets stuck in bear market

a usual reply as part of the "support" you get from sampey to this is
- you didnt read manual
- you didnt set parameteres right
- and finally when he is convinced and has no other answer "all markets are devaluating, sorry Sad"

which is against all logic of trading. the goal of trading is to be on a market that is gaining value, and exit quickly the ones in devaluation.

also language will be a strong barrier.

i asked for a refund but no luck.

you need to know all of these before you pay 0.6 BTC to this program. You paid less than 100 USD to the Windows on your computer, think twice before paying 480-500 USD to this.

Ah and yes, if you PM him he gives you discount - i got mine for 0.53BTC. So he tries to get as much from you as possible - this in my books is not a good way of doing business.

if you have any questions, or have an argument that you can logically defend, let me know.

if you will give me the "oh there are gains but markets are devaluating", "oh you couldnt setup the paramenters right", or "oh you didnt know how to use it so you are crying" crap dont even bother replying. i am a seasoned finance and trading professional, i make a living on it and i am caling this as is. reply only if you have a logical argument on what i said above in bullet points.

[KeyserSozeMC]

Total bullsh!t.

I own CAT for more than 1.5 month.

Until now CAT brought me 6.9 BTC.
Started with 1 BTC.

Do your math. If you're not good with math, sell your copy to someone else, who knows how to use a bot.


This is not a hate reply, just a real reply.

[Sampey]

And this is the response i have already done in the main topic. SCAMMER

- this is an automated bot

Yes it is written in the title.

- it only automates buy and sell orders, so instead of you logging into the site, it will do it for you

It automates a full process of Buy/Sell -> Trade-> Sell/Buy -> Rebuy/Resell for 24H/Day without need you near the PC.
And it can make this on 120 Markets at the same time. Try to do it by yourself.

- it does not have any strategy embedded in the code

Because you aren't able to set all the parameter CAT Can accept.

- it will keep buying and selling in the markets you chose with 'scalping'

This is not true, if you set no parameter is scalping, but if you set right parameter you will go on the "long time trading" (many people use CAT like this)

- inherently this results in gains in rising 'bull' markets, but you will get stuck with a losing coin if a market becomes a falling 'bear' market

this is always true, even if you place an order by yourself.

- which means you should only trade in bull markets (duh!)

False

- CAT cant tell you which ones are bull

And are you able to do this?

- if you were to know which ones are bull, you wouldnt be scalping, you would be keeping the coins. you wouldnt need to buy and sell, buy and sell. it doesnt make sense. you dont need it, you need to stick to your rising coin and get rid of falling coin.
- therefore there is no benefit of CAT, since it buys and sells and buys and sells .... in a bull market (which is something you wouldnt want) and it gets stuck in bear market

You haven't set correct parameter, The point is always the same "You want to GAIN without study markets trend"

a usual reply as part of the "support" you get from sampey to this is
- you didnt read manual
- you didnt set parameteres right

Totally false, i ask you questions/log to understand why haven't you gained.

- and finally when he is convinced and has no other answer "all markets are devaluating, sorry "

Because YOU  have Gain with CAT, but you have lost with  market devaluation. This is true. Post here your gains log and everybody will see.

i asked for a refund but no luck.

It is written in TOS in the main page. Don't ask for something is not possible.

Ah and yes, if you PM him he gives you discount - i got mine for 0.53BTC. So he tries to get as much from you as possible - this in my books is not a good way of doing business.

Liar! I do a discount for give you a favour. I Always do discount to people who have difficult to get the Full price.



you should be ashamed of what you have written

And now, sell your copy and don't try to ask me something by PM again.

[telemaco]

I think uozer you are not fair here.

I have been using CAT from almost the very beginning, i think the 5th or 6th copy maybe.

I take note of every thing that CAT does. I have cygwin installed and using batch scripts i do greps to the gain logs output and the market log and group them by market pari and complete an excel with the profits for each market, what % diff configuration i was using then and how much benefit in % was using with that setting based on the amount invested so i can maximize the benefit. Those values are changing all the time but having a an average for each market of only the last 7 days it will change soon enough.

I am a total disaster with Technical Analysis because i panic buy/sell too easily and i have been relying for months with quite a nice success on many different bots, Ema bots, arbitrage, rolling and CAT. CAT provides a specific aproach that lets you set a top and bottom buy/sell margin, what some people call ranged trading but you can also configure it to work a type of stop loss. Only for those two values it would be interesting enough as there are not any bots around on sourceforge or in github for Cryptsy (i check periodically), so i recommend CAT even just for that, you have 10 million doges and you can configure it with at fixed range value to buy and sell all the time, You can do that with QT Trader on Bitstamp, Gox, but the scripting possibilities are way more limited, you can configure something like: If buy value drops below something do this. if sell value goes over this do that and keep that working for ever. You have to choose properly the ranges to maximize the number of times the buy value steps over a specific time. For example you can calculate that

97 - Market has been here 5 times in the last 12 hours
98 - Market has been here 10 times in the last 12 hours
99 - Market has been here 28 times in the last 12 hours
100 - Market has been here 13 times in the last 12 hours
101 and so on
102

So if you want you can configure the trade ranges to make sure that the market steps over those values the mroe times in the lowest time period the better so you can buy and sell many times. There are some very good markets for that. I specifically like more markets that are quite stable, like btc/ltc that is almost plain and the ranges are covered many time.

Cat does not only do that it also autocalculates the next trade range based on the specific market condition so you can follow upwards or downwards the market, at least until you get a pong (that i think it cannot be recalculated, with that it would be just awesome).

Is CAT actual price expensive?, i don't think so. Of course it might depend on how much money are you going to invest using CAT. If you use CAT with 3 Btc you can get back your money in a few days without too much problem and you will get license for ever. If you use 10 Btc you can be making half a bitcoin a day if you are lucky. You have to make sure where CAT characteristics make it more useful and for what type of markets and apply there. Buy a few Doge for example out of your btc (trying to avoid slippage as much as possible) and just set it running and leave it like that.

Cat allows aswell to reconfigure on the fly, the Gui is pretty good, support is really good (it does not take more than an hour to get an answer from Sampey when something is asked, and believe me that i am really boring and i ask things non stop). There are frequent releases and you have license forever. I seriously think it is a good deal, i have even donated more money because i think it is deserved.

It also allows some useful things, for example one week ago, cryptsy announced on twitter that they were working on the BTC balance so they removed it from the webpage and we have not seen it again. We have CAT working perfectly there that was even working great when Cryptsy had it failing all the time. More things, Cryptsy only shows the last 200 operations for each market, with your logs you can see forever, everything that you have done with all the details, really useful if you need to open a ticket or you want to follow a specific info. You can close all the orders at the same time (you could with Cryptsy and not anymore). You can gather many statistics about all the markets that you couldn't see otherwise.

A couple hints: If you write your logs on dropbox you can check how much it is gaining from everywhere. Also if you get an Amazon EC2 machine you can have your bots running there without the risk of what happens in your house computer.

[devnullius]

I agree to some parts, but disagree strongly in others...

I agree totally:
- this is an automated bot
- it only automates buy and sell orders, so instead of you logging into the site, it will do it for you
- it does not have any strategy embedded in the code
- it will keep buying and selling in the markets you chose with 'scalping'
- CAT cant tell you which ones are bull

---
I'm not sure - I've been struggling with this too! (http://scforum.info/index.php/topic,8566.msg22139.html#msg22139)
- if you were to know which ones are bull, you wouldnt be scalping, you would be keeping the coins. you wouldnt need to buy and sell, buy and sell. it doesnt make sense. you dont need it, you need to stick to your rising coin and get rid of falling coin.
If you put margins low enough you can nibble away some BTC or LTC or XPM (depending on the coin-pair). So you do not only profit from bull, but you profit extra from bull. And that can be 0.01 or 0.02 BTC in a few days. With not too huge of investment.
Even when market goes down, you can still nibble away - given enough fluctuation is there and CAT doesn't lose track because no fund, whatever (I'm still investigating this exactly: allocation of resources is hard to overview or manage: I'd love a top-off function to convert all above a certain thresh-hold. How and what: I'm overthinking this... I'm NOT a professional trader ;p)

---
Don't really agree, but you are right
- inherently this results in gains in rising 'bull' markets, but you will get stuck with a losing coin if a market becomes a falling 'bear' market
Yeah, I found that one out too - thought obvious, one can get lost on the numbers. Still, the loss you have in a down market are LESS than it could have been because you keep nibbling some margins away - given enough fluctuation.

No-brainer, but... ;p
- which means you should only trade in bull markets (duh!)
yeah, duh! Only invest in rising markets. But what if it doesn't rise or suddenly drops when you are away. With CAT you can set custom sell orders instead of it Ping Ponging (buy/selling). At least with CAT you can nibble some of your losses away. But in the grand scale: if your amount of stock devaluates quicker than your profits from nibbling... You go down. But in total, not as  fast as could have been...

---
For now, I do not think I agree. Future might prove me wrong, but I do not think so...
- therefore there is no benefit of CAT, since it buys and sells and buys and sells .... in a bull market (which is something you wouldn't want) and it gets stuck in bear market
Yeah, CAT can get stuck. More warnings would be greatly appreciated. But markets are non-predictable. Things can get out of sync... No any solution keeps perfect scores without you doing anything. Or thinking anything. But you know that too

---
STRONGLY disagree:
a usual reply as part of the "support" you get from sampey to this is
- you didnt read manual
- you didnt set parameteres right
- and finally when he is convinced and has no other answer "all markets are devaluating, sorry Sad"
I have had SO many discussions with him. He tries to answer all the logic behind his program and what everything means. He is not the All Knowing of Trading, but he does know his program and is open to suggestions. If you point out a bug he is eager to fix. My Inbox at bitcointalk is full of messages, if only he'd leave me alone!  I've *NEVER* heard the answers you seem to have received...

---
TRUE - but not to dramatic levels
- also language will be a strong barrier.
I'd rephrase "strong" to "very mildly". Sometimes you have to rephrase. Or he has - he's very SHORT in answering - which greatly adds to the difficulty of understanding of CAT. That's why I'm trying to write a manual: but I'm still trying to learn to trade before I can truly say where CAT is good or not.

i wanted to warn anyone who is considering to buy CAT:


which is against all logic of trading. the goal of trading is to be on a market that is gaining value, and exit quickly the ones in devaluation.


i asked for a refund but no luck.

you need to know all of these before you pay 0.6 BTC to this program. You paid less than 100 USD to the Windows on your computer, think twice before paying 480-500 USD to this.

Ah and yes, if you PM him he gives you discount - i got mine for 0.53BTC. So he tries to get as much from you as possible - this in my books is not a good way of doing business.

if you have any questions, or have an argument that you can logically defend, let me know.

if you will give me the "oh there are gains but markets are devaluating", "oh you couldnt setup the paramenters right", or "oh you didnt know how to use it so you are crying" crap dont even bother replying. i am a seasoned finance and trading professional, i make a living on it and i am caling this as is. reply only if you have a logical argument on what i said above in bullet points.

Hope I was worthy of answering...



Peace!


devnullius
















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[ficilan]

Hi uozer, don´t know why are you trying to blame Sampey for not being able to set up C.A.T. properly. As a „seasoned finance and trading professional“ ,your words, you should know it.
There are gains to be made also by simply setting normal gain on top volume markets. You gain in altcoins portfolio for sure and if you look just a bit on markets, you can see the trend, or try to choose more stable markets, but you know it for sure.
As you stated in C.A.T main thread:
 

not really, o be honest it racks up some good gains. the key thing with CAT is you need to be able to check he markets every now and then. i cant install it in my work computer, so i cant check it. thats why i am reselling. otherwise perfect simple java based app.

So my assumption is quite clear from this post:
As you stated, C.A.T brings you some GOOD GAINS and it is PERFECT SIMPLE JAVA BASED APP , the only problem is you cannot run it on your work computer, that´s why you tried to sell it, and asked from refund. Even though you have clearly seen C.A.T. Terms of service - Refund is not possible (C.A.T. is not an hardware)
You should try the hints telemaco suggested you in the post above. I am pretty sure you can solve it that way, not by blaming Sampey or complaining about C.A.T. functions

Just my 2¢

[cad_cdn]

I think the price has always been too expensive.
drop the price to reasonable amount under $100 USD, let people pay a commission on their profit margins.

everybody wins.

[Sampey]

Uozer is a person who change his mind fast, specially when the scam-try goes wrong :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=329168.msg4681688#msg4681688

not really, o be honest it racks up some good gains. the key thing with CAT is you need to be able to check he markets every now and then. i cant install it in my work computer, so i cant check it. thats why i am reselling. otherwise perfect simple java based app.

WHAT? perfect simple java based app

uozer, you had 2 choices :

- PM Me each time you want and ask me all the questions you want, and continue get Free Cat Copy
- Try to scam me and ruin my reputation.

You choose the second one, but :
- You forgot to remove your previous positive comments about CAT
- You forgot that i have 50 Positive Feedback about CAT
- You forgot that i have many person/friend who know the truth about this program (because they are able to use, or simply because they know i'm an honest person)

Result?
You try to scam an ruin my reputation. I Will revoke your Key From next CAT release.

Next time, choose another person to get smart. I'm more, more, more smarter than you. And, i'm an honest person. This is the most important thing.

[iampingu]

I was the first CAT user.

I paid 5 bitcoins for my copy. I'm the most qualified here to determine its capability.

CAT has paid my rent for a year and bought me many nice things.

CAT has singlehanded lay paid for my university fees for the last two years.

It's a buy and sell bot yes. But it's a fucking good one.

Slanderous comments aren't necessary, if you don't understand the tech, don't buy it.

[Sampey]

I was the first CAT user.

I paid 5 bitcoins for my copy. I'm the most qualified here to determine its capability.

CAT has paid my rent for a year and bought me many nice things.

CAT has singlehanded lay paid for my university fees for the last two years.

It's a buy and sell bot yes. But it's a fucking good one.

Slanderous comments aren't necessary, if you don't understand the tech, don't buy it.

Thanks iampingu. I'm very happy for your result, hope CAT will give you more and more and more happiness 

[rwessels]

I must be doing something very wrong then.  I keep watching my bitcoin balance drop each day.  By about 2% a day.  Basically I am having the same issue as the OP.

CATS is telling me that I am making about .05 - .075 BTC a day on about 3 BTC in play in over 20 markets.  But I just end up with lots of coins that have lost value.  I tried to add a sell if ref price drops under 10% and then CATS started giving me lots of negative gains.

I understand if no one wants to tell me their strategies, but I could use some pointers.  Each of my markets is set to .6 or .8 % min gain.  Right now I only have the sell side of each order since each time I upgrade to the latest CATS, I have to setup the orders again and since most of my coins are in alt's, I don't have the BTC to keep buying additional alts.

Any help would be appreciated as I have lost at least 1 BTC so far over the last 2 months.

[Sampey]

I must be doing something very wrong then.  I keep watching my bitcoin balance drop each day.  By about 2% a day.  Basically I am having the same issue as the OP.

CATS is telling me that I am making about .05 - .075 BTC a day on about 3 BTC in play in over 20 markets.  But I just end up with lots of coins that have lost value.  I tried to add a sell if ref price drops under 10% and then CATS started giving me lots of negative gains.

I understand if no one wants to tell me their strategies, but I could use some pointers.  Each of my markets is set to .6 or .8 % min gain.  Right now I only have the sell side of each order since each time I upgrade to the latest CATS, I have to setup the orders again and since most of my coins are in alt's, I don't have the BTC to keep buying additional alts.

Any help would be appreciated as I have lost at least 1 BTC so far over the last 2 months.

Try to determine High/Low values of each markets every day.
If you find a markets that reach values X (Max) and value Y (Min) you could determine % Difference between this 2 markets (ex 15%) and then set a Buy Order when value is near MIN or a sell order when value is near MAX.

0.6-08 % Is very little gain, this could work only on some markets, on a markets like LTC/BTC you could set 2%-5%

[rwessels]

Thank you Sampey.  Things like this might seem obvious to you, but not me (and maybe others).  I have to give you kudos on a few things.  You are always quick to support your product - through the forum as well as frequent updates. 

If I could make one suggestion on the product, it would be nice to have some visual indication that we are waiting on Cryptsy.  For example when you are clicking Check Current Status.  Sometimes it takes a second, most of the time it takes 5-10 seconds, and sometimes over a minute.  If there was some sort of spinner or counter when you click a button that is waiting on the Cryptsy API, it would be easier to tell that we are waiting and we don't need to keep clicking (or in my case, hover over different buttons to see what a button that I can click on looks like compared to a button that is waiting.

Thank you!

I must be doing something very wrong then.  I keep watching my bitcoin balance drop each day.  By about 2% a day.  Basically I am having the same issue as the OP.

CATS is telling me that I am making about .05 - .075 BTC a day on about 3 BTC in play in over 20 markets.  But I just end up with lots of coins that have lost value.  I tried to add a sell if ref price drops under 10% and then CATS started giving me lots of negative gains.

I understand if no one wants to tell me their strategies, but I could use some pointers.  Each of my markets is set to .6 or .8 % min gain.  Right now I only have the sell side of each order since each time I upgrade to the latest CATS, I have to setup the orders again and since most of my coins are in alt's, I don't have the BTC to keep buying additional alts.

Any help would be appreciated as I have lost at least 1 BTC so far over the last 2 months.

Try to determine High/Low values of each markets every day.
If you find a markets that reach values X (Max) and value Y (Min) you could determine % Difference between this 2 markets (ex 15%) and then set a Buy Order when value is near MIN or a sell order when value is near MAX.

0.6-08 % Is very little gain, this could work only on some markets, on a markets like LTC/BTC you could set 2%-5%

[Sampey]

Thank you Sampey.  Things like this might seem obvious to you, but not me (and maybe others).  I have to give you kudos on a few things.  You are always quick to support your product - through the forum as well as frequent updates. 

If I could make one suggestion on the product, it would be nice to have some visual indication that we are waiting on Cryptsy.  For example when you are clicking Check Current Status.  Sometimes it takes a second, most of the time it takes 5-10 seconds, and sometimes over a minute.  If there was some sort of spinner or counter when you click a button that is waiting on the Cryptsy API, it would be easier to tell that we are waiting and we don't need to keep clicking (or in my case, hover over different buttons to see what a button that I can click on looks like compared to a button that is waiting.

Thank you!

Thanks 

The thing you are ask me is not possible because a visual indication is possible when i have X task to do (ex 4 task 25% - 50% - 75% - 100%)
But when the API Call Starts there's no way to understand how much time does it takes, so i cannot create an indicator because there's no task from the start call and the response 


PS : i prefer that you post here, in the main topic : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=329168.0
This is a shit thread of a scammer.