Understanding transaction history

[muffint0p]

Hi,

Just helped my sister get back into her wallet after apparently years. I imported it with the seed phrase BIP-39.

But all she had was her seed code. She didn't know what to do with it. I downloaded desktop Electrum and got in but there's only a transaction history from 2017. There's Inputs (1) and Outputs (2)
One output of 0.69691 and one of 64.63957 but there's only 0.69691mBTC received and that's the entire balance. But apparently she was given bit coin a couple years back but I see no history of that. Maybe the person to gave it to her and helped her set it up still has access to it? I don't understand what input output means

[jackg]

Any chance you can send me the address/master public key and I can explain it to you better (you can pm these if you want)?

I'm not sure how well versed you are with bitcoin but I think you're using the terms input and output slightly differently to the normal way. Do you mean, by input, incoming funds and buy output, outgoing funds?

Is it possible she has another seed phrase somewhere, or change addresses were used that won't appear in electrum?
To get the change, go into making the wallet again but add a '/0 to the end of the derivation path.

[muffint0p]

Any chance you can send me the address/master public key and I can explain it to you better (you can pm these if you want)?

I'm not sure how well versed you are with bitcoin but I think you're using the terms input and output slightly differently to the normal way. Do you mean, by input, incoming funds and buy output, outgoing funds?

Is it possible she has another seed phrase somewhere, or change addresses were used that won't appear in electrum?
To get the change, go into making the wallet again but add a '/0 to the end of the derivation path.

It's when I double click the transaction, there's a transaction ID, Inputs (1) and Outputs(2)
I tried to make a wallet for change, but nothing was in there.

[jackg]

What derivation path did you use for both wallets?

And the inputs are the scripts used to fund a transaction, the outputs are input into the transaction as to specify who owns the new coins...

You sign an input (with your private key) when you want to send it to someone and as far as I know, you sign the entire transaction also to prove it's authenticity and the output you want it to go to specifically.

[muffint0p]

What derivation path did you use for both wallets?

And the inputs are the scripts used to fund a transaction, the outputs are input into the transaction as to specify who owns the new coins...

You sign an input (with your private key) when you want to send it to someone and as far as I know, you sign the entire transaction also to prove it's authenticity and the output you want it to go to specifically.

I used legacy
I have lots of addresses in that tab. What are all of those? Only one has btc

was I supposed to add '/0 as a separate phrase? --nvm to the PATH

[jackg]

I used legacy
I have lots of addresses in that tab. What are all of those? Only one has btc

Legacy?
So you checked the box to say it was a bip39 seed, then selected legacy?

Then you should get a box underneath that says something like m/44'/0'/0 and you hit next initially.
Now instead of having this m/44'/0'/0 you want to put in m/44'/0'/0'/0 in order to get to the change addresses, have you done this?

[muffint0p]

I used legacy
I have lots of addresses in that tab. What are all of those? Only one has btc

Legacy?
So you checked the box to say it was a bip39 seed, then selected legacy?

Then you should get a box underneath that says something like m/44'/0'/0 and you hit next initially.
Now instead of having this m/44'/0'/0 you want to put in m/44'/0'/0'/0 in order to get to the change addresses, have you done this?

Just did that, but it appears to be the same wallet

[jackg]

Just did that, but it appears to be the same wallet

Err, it shouldn't be. Try adding another apostrophie to the end of the zero on the second one (or try m/44'/0'/0'/0'/0 (just in case).

I was doing it earlier today trying to get out some of my coins (but realised I had the wrong seed).

If it is m/44'/0'/0 that has the coins then it can't really be any other derivation paths.

I'd suggest going to the console (via view>show console) and typing:

Code:

wallet.change_gap_limit(80)
wallet.storage.write() 

And see if that brings up any of the coins.

Is the person she got the coins off very highly trusted (there's a lot of scams that go on around here and have been going for quite a few years now - it's not unheard of around here to get scammed by a family member/friend)?

[muffint0p]

Just did that, but it appears to be the same wallet

Err, it shouldn't be. Try adding another apostrophie to the end of the zero on the second one (or try m/44'/0'/0'/0'/0 (just in case).

I was doing it earlier today trying to get out some of my coins (but realised I had the wrong seed).

If it is m/44'/0'/0 that has the coins then it can't really be any other derivation paths.

I'd suggest going to the console (via view>show console) and typing:

Code:

wallet.change_gap_limit(80)
wallet.storage.write() 

And see if that brings up any of the coins.

Is the person she got the coins off very highly trusted (there's a lot of scams that go on around here and have been going for quite a few years now - it's not unheard of around here to get scammed by a family member/friend)?

I doubt they can be trusted (well, I'm not sure personally). Just hope its not a lot cause. But yeah, I retried to add to the derivation path and it's taking a while to synchronize but the address are different. I tried that code in the console on the non change wallet and get a true and no output for the next command. where should I see an output?

[jackg]

I doubt they can be trusted (well, I'm not sure personally). Just hope its not a lot cause. But yeah, I retried to add to the derivation path and it's taking a while to synchronize but the address are different. I tried that code in the console on the non change wallet and get a true and no output for the next command. where should I see an output?

In the actual balance field at the bottom, the amount should've changed if that wallet uses a certain extra gap limit.

If you can't trust him, don't give him access to her wallet unless you get the funds out of it (and based on your expeience or lack thereof I would suggest trying to educate yourself a bit with how to move your funds elsewhere - don't do anything with them until you understand what you are doing, you actually can lose everything)...

[muffint0p]

I doubt they can be trusted (well, I'm not sure personally). Just hope its not a lot cause. But yeah, I retried to add to the derivation path and it's taking a while to synchronize but the address are different. I tried that code in the console on the non change wallet and get a true and no output for the next command. where should I see an output?

In the actual balance field at the bottom, the amount should've changed if that wallet uses a certain extra gap limit.

If you can't trust him, don't give him access to her wallet unless you get the funds out of it (and based on your expeience or lack thereof I would suggest trying to educate yourself a bit with how to move your funds elsewhere - don't do anything with them until you understand what you are doing, you actually can lose everything)...

Yeah, I don't see a change down there and after adding the 0/ to the path, it's been hanging on "synchronizing" instead of a balance. Not sure this change is for her then. Maybe it's someone else's change?

[jackg]

I doubt they can be trusted (well, I'm not sure personally). Just hope its not a lot cause. But yeah, I retried to add to the derivation path and it's taking a while to synchronize but the address are different. I tried that code in the console on the non change wallet and get a true and no output for the next command. where should I see an output?

In the actual balance field at the bottom, the amount should've changed if that wallet uses a certain extra gap limit.

If you can't trust him, don't give him access to her wallet unless you get the funds out of it (and based on your expeience or lack thereof I would suggest trying to educate yourself a bit with how to move your funds elsewhere - don't do anything with them until you understand what you are doing, you actually can lose everything)...

Yeah, I don't see a change down there and after adding the 0/ to the path, it's been hanging on "synchronizing" instead of a balance. Not sure this change is for her then. Maybe it's someone else's change?

She could possibly have sent it to someone else (or the person who sold it to her and helped her do it).

Is there still some bitcoin in that wallet or is it completely empty?

To clarify also, you added /0 and not 0/ didn't you (there is quite a difference I'm not sure that 0/ does but it doesn't sound like it'd be mathematically legal)

[pooya87]

all this messing around with derivation path and gap limit are options you should consider IF you have done the same back when you created the seed (2017?). if you haven't done them back then, you don't need to do them now either! it is the same wallet and if you recovered it with the seed and there is only 1 transaction in it, that means that is all you have received. ie. 0.69691mBTC

if it is supposed to be more, the sender might not have sent you what he should have sent or there may be another wallet that you don't remember right now.

[jackg]

all this messing around with derivation path and gap limit are options you should consider IF you have done the same back when you created the seed (2017?). if you haven't done them back then, you don't need to do them now either! it is the same wallet and if you recovered it with the seed and there is only 1 transaction in it, that means that is all you have received. ie. 0.69691mBTC

if it is supposed to be more, the sender might not have sent you what he should have sent or there may be another wallet that you don't remember right now.

It's not the same software though.

If he's recovering using a m/44'/0'/0 as he has said he is then the old wallet that she used might also have done the same thing automatically to change the gap limit to add change addresses to the end or to add change addresses on the next derivative.

[bob123]

all this messing around with derivation path and gap limit are options you should consider IF you have done the same back when you created the seed (2017?). [...]

I agree with this.


If you have entered the seed AND are seeing transactions and a balance, the chance is almost 0 that there are funds sitting on another derivation path.

The whole messing around with derivation path is often needed because people use their seed and get a wallet with 0 balance and different addresses than they had.
In this case, changing the derivation path helps finding the correct private-/public- keypairs.

But if you are able to access a wallet with the plain seed (how it is intended to be), you have access to your wallet. Changing derivation paths most probably won't get you 'another wallet' with more funds.

I don't understand what input output means

Transactions do consist of inputs and outputs.
The inputs (which you need the private key for) are used to create new outputs.

All you need to do to check the balance/history is to check the history tab in electrum, receiving vs. outgoing transactions.

[Abdussamad]

A few long shot options for you to try are given below:

- Go to view menu > show console, switch to console tab and enter this to increase your receive address gap limit and generate more change addresses as well:

Code:

wallet.change_gap_limit(200)
for thing in range(1,100): wallet.create_new_address(True)
wallet.synchronize()

- Failing the above try restoring the second HD account of your wallet. Go to file > new/restore, enter a unique filename and click next. Proceed to restore your wallet from seed as before with one change - a new derivation path of m/44'/0'/1'  . Note the single quotes are not optional. Also you can always switch wallet files via file > open.

[jackg]

Ignore pooka and bob op, hopefully they'll read this to see they're wrong on this one.

A few long shot options for you to try are given below:

- Go to view menu > show console, switch to console tab and enter this to increase your receive address gap limit and generate more change addresses as well:

Code:

wallet.change_gap_limit(200)
for thing in range(1,100): wallet.create_new_address(True)
wallet.synchronize()

- Failing the above try restoring the second HD account of your wallet. Go to file > new/restore, enter a unique filename and click next. Proceed to restore your wallet from seed as before with one change - a new derivation path of m/44'/0'/1'  . Note the single quotes are not optional. Also you can always switch wallet files via file > open.

I knew I'd missed something, great spot there!