US Exchanges - bad for US citizens?

[ulhaq]

I do not get what all the excitement is about binance US (and other US exchanges) - if KYC is required and it is fully compliant with the US government, then a permanent record of all US users is being created, which the government can force binance to turn over in the future. We know that the government wins all legal cases. All the news/statements from the Trump administration on crypto has been negative. The government wants to control the money supply and has made many statements about it. We don't know what will happen to crypto legislation and legality in the future. They can arbitrarily increase taxes at any time and retroactively enforce it. And if crypto falls out of favor with the government (especially if it becomes popular), they can use the user data to pressure law-abiding citizens. Doesn't it make more sense for US citizens to use exchanges outside of the US?

[Findingnemo]

US has strict laws related to crypto usage so this applies to all the exchange not only for Binance so the topic title is kind of misleading.

When someone violated the laws from their government then they are criminals so you have to use the exchanges which have no KYC verification, or else your transactions will get recorded and you need to face the consequences.

[figmentofmyass]

I do not get what all the excitement is about binance US - if KYC is required and it is fully compliant with the US government, then a permanent record of all US users is being created, which the government can force binance to turn over in the future. We know that the government wins all legal cases. All the news/statements from the Trump administration on crypto has been negative. The government wants to control the money supply and has made many statements about it. We don't know what will happen to crypto legislation and legality in the future. They can arbitrarily increase taxes at any time and retroactively enforce it. And if crypto falls out of favor with the government (especially if it becomes popular), they can use the user data to pressure law-abiding citizens. Doesn't it make more sense for US citizens to use exchanges outside of the US?

they are between a rock and a hard place. the SEC, FINCEN, and others were breathing down their neck. they knew they couldn't get away with allowing unverified american accounts for much longer. so they allowed them for as long as possible and then went legit. i don't blame them.

i don't have much incentive to use their exchange though. giving my SSN to binance? no thanks.......

[joniboini]

No matter what centralized exchange you'll use, KYC is inevitable. It makes more sense to use dex or do P2P transactions locally if you don't want to leave any trail of crypto transactions on your ID.

[alyssa85]

I do not get what all the excitement is about binance US - if KYC is required and it is fully compliant with the US government, then a permanent record of all US users is being created, which the government can force binance to turn over in the future. We know that the government wins all legal cases. All the news/statements from the Trump administration on crypto has been negative. The government wants to control the money supply and has made many statements about it. We don't know what will happen to crypto legislation and legality in the future. They can arbitrarily increase taxes at any time and retroactively enforce it. And if crypto falls out of favor with the government (especially if it becomes popular), they can use the user data to pressure law-abiding citizens. Doesn't it make more sense for US citizens to use exchanges outside of the US?

The excitement is that Binance features a lot of alts.

There arn't many legally compliant US exchanges that you can deposit fiat to and then trade alts. So Binance is a big deal.

[figmentofmyass]

No matter what centralized exchange you'll use, KYC is inevitable. It makes more sense to use dex or do P2P transactions locally if you don't want to leave any trail of crypto transactions on your ID.

not true for altcoin or derivatives trading. there are still plenty of centralized platforms to hedge USD value or margin trade without KYC, though they are gradually becoming fewer in numbers. bitmex, deribit, kumex, kucoin, binance.com, etc are still holding it down for us unverified renegades!

it's only fiat processing that generally mandates KYC. even in that case, there are some options to get around it like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5189619.msg52634869#msg52634869

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It's not a bad thing at all--there are plenty of people who just want to buy bitcoin as an investment and keep track of everything in order to pay taxes and so forth.  In those cases, they're not likely to care about KYC procedures.  You can't buy stocks without going through a broker, and all of them require KYC, as do banks if you want so much as a checking account.  It's not a big deal IMO.

Binance is also not the only way to purchase crypto for US citizens, and those who want more privacy just won't use them.  I'd much rather have Binance available in the US with KYC than not have it available at all.  You could ask the same question about Coinbase, by the way.  They've always required KYC documents as far as I know, and nobody has really complained about that.  You have to link your bank account to pretty much any exchange in order to deal with fiat, so it's not like they're not going to know who you are.

[1Referee]

There arn't many legally compliant US exchanges that you can deposit fiat to and then trade alts. So Binance is a big deal.

Coinbase has listed quite a few shitcoins in the last 12 months and they will continue to list more upon approval. They have established themselves as top exchange and they haven't had any problems allowing people to withdraw fiat, which generally tends to be a problem many other exchanges struggle with every now and then.

I like Binance entering the us market just for the purpose of having a large player compete with Coinbase. I'm however not sure if Binance will have success on that front. Binance's main success was to disregard regulations, which they can't do anymore with their us trading arm. It could very well end up being the next Bittrex or Poloniex.

[figmentofmyass]

It's not a bad thing at all--there are plenty of people who just want to buy bitcoin as an investment and keep track of everything in order to pay taxes and so forth.  In those cases, they're not likely to care about KYC procedures.  You can't buy stocks without going through a broker, and all of them require KYC, as do banks if you want so much as a checking account.  It's not a big deal IMO.

except that binance is a dodgy crypto exchange known for flouting regulations. how do we even know they comply with data protection laws? they hop from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. their "headquarters" in malta is basically a front and i suspect it won't be there much longer.

they've already been hacked for customer KYC data, which isn't a strong vote of confidence.

You could ask the same question about Coinbase, by the way.  They've always required KYC documents as far as I know, and nobody has really complained about that.

coinbase gives me 10x the daily withdrawal limit without requiring SSN or proof of address. it also has superior liquidity. the choice is obvious for me, even with binance having significantly cheaper commissions.

[ulhaq]

US has strict laws related to crypto usage so this applies to all the exchange not only for Binance so the topic title is kind of misleading.

Title changed

[figmentofmyass]

US has strict laws related to crypto usage so this applies to all the exchange not only for Binance so the topic title is kind of misleading.

Title changed

funny and sorta true, but there are definitely nuances. binance.us requiring SSN for a $5k daily withdrawal limit is pretty appalling---especially when you consider how shitty their liquidity is. if they allowed basic verification with no SSN, i'd actually use them. gemini is also over the top with their requirements---you can't even create an account without SSN and state ID.

kraken and coinbase still win out in this department.

[richardsNY]

You can't buy stocks without going through a broker, and all of them require KYC, as do banks if you want so much as a checking account.

These days there are just as many non-compliant stock>forex brokers as there are non-compliant crypto exchanges. Most of these brokers offer CFD's where those buying and trading these contracts don't actually own the stocks nor do they have dividend or voting rights. It's all based on buying the exposure to the asset. It's hard to regulate everyone one of them. Where one goes bust two new brokers pop up.

figmentofmyass, is it really necessary to keep posting consecutively in the same thread and in the same page? It's quite annoying and spammy.