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Author Topic: Is the US Moving Away from Capitalism and Free Market?  (Read 311 times)
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May 28, 2020, 02:12:50 AM
 #21

The mistake would be thinking this is something new, money has been devalued many times previous.   We're just repeating things here and the technology and some terms are new due to sophisticated markets but the base idea to create new money is not new and I presume all the effects will follow historical precedent also.

Quote
inflation
Is the expansion of the monetary base.   Prices will always vary, by season and supply and demand but that does not reflect the value alteration of the dollar itself.   Problem is modern economics teaches many different things now, I'll just say the simplest you can get a rule the more likely it will be true.   So thats it for me, just that first sentence is enough to describe it.   Fractional reserve will alter the amount of currency in circulation according to monetary velocity I think so its a confusing subject, our view is not clear.    Statistics and hedonics will adjust raw price data to reflect inflation as measured and reported by government, technology does account for alot of why inflation has not been reported as a problem thus far.   

My take is we diverged from capitalism a long time ago and this is the tail end of that game perhaps this virus forcing a natural contraction has lit the touchpaper because you cant really fail to acknowledge that loss.   I dont know how long it'll take till we reach the end game and some kind of reset but hopefully not too long or it'll just add more waste.   

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May 28, 2020, 11:04:47 AM
 #22

Austrian:
Quote
when a government increases the quantity of paper money, the result is that the purchasing power of the monetary unit begins to drop, and so prices rise. This is called inflation.

Unfortunately, in the United States, as well as in other countries, some people prefer to attribute the cause of inflation not to an increase in the quantity of money but, rather, to the rise in prices.
Source: https://mises.org/library/inflation

Mainstream:
Quote
In the long run, inflation is caused by growth in the money supply. Inflation, the rate of growth in the average level of prices, can vary over the short run for many reasons. Over the long run, however, the rate at which the central bank (the Federal Reserve System in the United States) causes the stock of money to grow determines what the inflation rate is.
Source: Williamson, Macroeconomics 6th ed, Pearson

I think Mises' view is more biased, or he wants to emphasize "printing money" in his lecture. The evidence why the mainstream definition of inflation is more accurate is in the short run, for example, on Islamic fasting month (in the Islamic majority country), inflation will be high not because of printing money stuff, but because an increase in demand since people tend to eat more quality/complete foods during that period.
https://journal.umy.ac.id/index.php/esp/article/view/6576

i'm only talking about the long run, and tbh these two quotes say the same thing to me---basically the monetary theory of inflation. it's pretty well accepted that all else equal increasing the money supply will eventually increase prices. the demand side economic view is that increasing the money supply is fine since we get adequate (if not equivalent) growth and thus stable/low price inflation. the austrian view is that this is only a temporary phenomenon before depressions wipe out all that growth.

i wasn't lobbying for one or the other, just distinguishing between the two schools of thought, and remarking that a predictably low and static emission rate may be a third approach. to bring up monero again---over the long term, its emission rate is firmly in between bitcoin's and the fed's target inflation rate. it seems like a good compromise between velocity (hoarding) and unchecked price inflation (increasing the money supply without equivalent growth).

the fundamental problem presently is that people are spending less money on goods and services, due to high unemployment and lack of confidence in the future.

we already have a problem of too much productivity. there is no demand for the current level of productivity, which is why there are so many layoffs happening. you can't get people to buy stuff they don't want just by making more of it.
Well, since economics is a social science, there's no such thing as binary yes or no, let's spin it shall we
Needs or wants are not equal to demand.

Quote
Demand is an economic principle referring to a consumer's desire to purchase goods and services and willingness to pay a price for a specific good or service.
Source: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demand.asp

As long as people are still alive and healthy, people will always need products and services, but they are unable or unwilling to pay at a particular price level. Hence, the idea is to keep producing because more supply will lower the price, with the hope that people can or willing to pay at the new price level.

that necessarily means businesses make less money. those with small margins already may become unprofitable entirely.

people with ample savings and continuing income will gladly scoop up discounted prices, but they are the people who haven't changed their spending habits. it's the unemployed/partially employed/failing business owners, who no longer have income to buy even at deflated prices, that are the issue. that's a huge chunk of the economy presently.

anyway, i'm just pointing out what i think could happen, not trying to predict doomsday or lobby for the austrian side. i'm both ambivalent and indifferent about deep monetary theory---too many unknowns for me to contemplate all that seriously. i simply don't know what's gonna happen re the current recession and future inflation either.

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May 29, 2020, 04:21:41 AM
 #23

What is more efficient than the market mechanism?
From your question, I realize that it is not the market that is ineffective and inefficient but the normative values of trade that are violated by the culprit. The nature of free value, free value in a free market is less appropriate because economics is the subject's behavior, which is strongly influenced by the values and the environment that surrounds it. The behavior is not constant, but it is very dynamic and always changes according to the dynamics of the socio-economic order of society. The order of values of justice in the economic field is needed in order to support balance and equality.

Even though economic norms have been introduced, because basically human nature is never satisfied, and there are always good vs. bad, an honest, fair, and wise supervisor or regulator is needed. And the need to separate sectors related to the interests of the lives of many people so as not to be privatized.

Is it possible to achieve a price balance in the market through aggregate supply and aggregate demand?


Quote
How the great depression is the evidence of the failure of the free market system? What happened in the great depression?
Simple answers to the early history of the role of the state began to be accepted again in the market mechanism is after the great depression. So I conclude that the free market system failed. If the free market system does not fail, of course, state intervention will not be used as a way to accelerate economic balance, which ends in a red carpet leading to the second world war.

Along with the development of the American industry in the aftermath of the first world war, there was a change in consumption lifestyle by means of credit which caused the production of luxury goods to increase. There was a lot of demand but not based on real money, this included over demand.

The stock market boom spurred, individuals and entrepreneurs aggressively invest their money in shares with the belief that buying shares is a guarantee of profits because of the relatively rising prices. Producers who want to get more money to invest ramp up, which in turn causes oversupply. Eventually, an imbalance occurs where the number of offers is higher than the amount of demand.

A free market plus a speculative boom in the stock market plus the practice of buying on margin plus a credit system with interest causes disaster.

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May 29, 2020, 08:51:31 AM
 #24

Quote
inflation
Is the expansion of the monetary base.
According to Bitcointalk school of economics?

Neither the Austrian nor the mainstream said that inflation is solely about printing money.

The Austrian view is about the system as a whole, about the price changes due to the money supply changes, while the mainstream says that it is correct in the long run. Still, both said it's about price changes.

Without acknowledging such a simple term, people cannot learn more about inflation in mainstream (real-world) economics, e.g., core inflation, demand-pull, cost-push, wage push, etc. https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/2656/inflation/different-types-of-inflation/

So when people see the price increases inflation even after seasonality adjustment, it is not necessarily because of central banks playing with the money supply. Remember M v / Y = P, even if v and Y are pretty stable, it still can change (in the short run) due to various reasons.
https://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/inflation/monetarist-theory-inflation/



Is it possible to achieve a price balance in the market through aggregate supply and aggregate demand?
Did you mean equilibrium? Well, in macroeconomics, when you plot AD and SRAS, you will get the equilibrium point. But this is not about one single price or price discovery like in microeconomics.

If it's about market equilibrium, then read about "Notes on equilibrium."
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/equilibrium.asp

If the free market system does not fail, of course, state intervention will not be used as a way to accelerate economic balance, which ends in a red carpet leading to the second world war.
The problem is the free market (laissez-faire) was never fully implemented, not even before the great depression. Like you said, maybe it is just a utopia since humans are bad, so the idea of the (humane) self-interest is irrational.

Anyway,

There are still lots of beers here. Anyone else cares to join the discussion? lol

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June 03, 2020, 01:42:01 AM
Last edit: June 12, 2023, 03:09:30 AM by STT
 #25

According to Bitcointalk school of economics?


Dictionary definitions prior to the Federal reserve act show inflation is expansion of the monetary base.   Since then politics eclipsed economics and we believe anything is possible, fundamentals  matter less then what we perceive hence prices are inflation now though that too has changed so we dont have any common reference over decades.
   We cant have peak FIAT occurring now if we arent fully committed to the castle in the sky, its real I can touch it and it'll probably fall or change significantly.   Imo its going to occur in my lifetime because the story started decades ago so its not some avant-garde prediction to expect an accumulation in effects that cause change.

Quote

If someone can dig out an ancient text book and look it up that'd work too.

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June 04, 2020, 10:37:20 AM
 #26

I don't want to go to that direction mate, that there is some conspiracy to dilute the meaning of inflation. Because, in economics, we studied all of it, and take the best words to explain the phenomenon. As long as we agree that inflation is about "a general increase in prices and fall in the purchasing value of money." --according to the Oxford Dictionary. Then what causes the decrease in the value of money can be many things:
* Increases money supply;
* Loss in confidence on a particular government;
* Supply/demand shock.

For example, for the same reason, about better-explaining things, mainstream economists reject the objective theory and labor theory of value.

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