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[Symmetrick]

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[Welsh]

Probably would still have to be investigated by staff to see what they're saying is actually true. At the end of the day, and I know its slightly different, but a lot of people when it court admit to crimes they never committed, and while it might not be the exact same here on the forum, they could potentially be trying to troll other users or actually try, and get banned, and then cause a scene because there was no proof.

I'd say feel free to report them for this, and let staff who have the correct access permissions, double check it to see if there's any correlation. Though, as with anything it depends on the users discretion who is handling the report.

Trust is subjective, and you could argue that whether they're telling the truth or not could warrant a tag. I generally like the idea of leaving forum issues to moderation, though obviously its difficult to tell in these instances, and ultimately comes down to the user leaving the trust. As above, my suggestion would be to just report it to bring it to the attention, and just keep an eye how it's handled.

[jackg]

Just chiming in here on the trust thing. We probably have 5 global mods that hand out most of the bans, whereas we'll have a few thousand members on dt 1 and 2 that can hand out negative trust (negative trust is going to be a lot more likely then and potentially less lenient).


If the admission was indirect (eg posting an address related to the other account) and the user was banned, they could always appeal the ban too and might win their appeal if it was something quite slight.

[Welsh]

I discussed this with one of the moderators earlier. He said that such statements can somehow substitute a moderator when he decides to ban this user only on the basis of his confession.

In my opinion, this is a rather lengthy refutation. Because you can also register a new user, publish in your post some telegram address or wallet address that does not belong to you, but is known on the forum. And thus associate yourself with someone who was previously banned. Moderators will not investigate whether this address really belongs to this newbie, they will simply see a match on the addresses and on this basis, according to paragraph 25 of the rules, they will ban him.

Which I believe has been attempted multiple times in the past when it comes to trust issues, not sure if its been attempted with more forum related issues. I wouldn't be surprised if it has.

And even if someone later says that he did this on purpose in order to substitute the moderator, it will not be some kind of abuse on the part of the moderator, because the user himself decided to substitute himself in this way and bring himself under the ban. I believe that the responsibility for this behavior, whether it is the publication of someone else's address, which is linked to a previously banned user, or the recognition of a newly registered Newby that he was banned yesterday, lies only with this newbie.

Yeah its a tricky one, and I think context really matters as it could vary widely from each case. You could potentially consider claiming the account to be theirs as trolling, and that might by itself constitute a ban. It really does depend on the situation I'd say. I think for the most part, thorough investigation when it can be carried out, should probably be carried out. Lack of data, probably side on the more cautious side, but I know that there will definitely be moderators out there that would disagree with this approach.

Either way, if a user gets banned they can contact the admins via the appropriate channels provided, and potentially get unbanned. I don't think there's been too many issues related to this particular problem.  

Such cases should be investigated more thoroughly if such confessions are written by some higher rank, with a old registration date, but a newbie who creates his own record today and says that he was banned yesterday is unlikely to somehow substitute someone.

Naturally, there would be more information available to review. Moderators have a decent amount of tools to be able to make an educated guess on whether an account is connected, but Global Moderators, and then the admins are very likely to be more suited to act upon it. I personally would probably leave this type of issue for the higher ups since they've more tools at their disposal. Unless, the evidence was absolute obviously.

[tranthidung]

What Welsh said is true and should do in investigation and processing of ban evading cases.

As staff, moderator, they can not solely rely on what is given by any forum member. They have to collect report from community members, double check it with forum data in their level of access, and might have to file their findings and report to global moderator or admin to handle permanent ban if necessary.

If they don't go through such complicated and long procedure, they can approve fake report from bad people who simply do personal attacks against members they don't like.

What if tomorrow, when I wake up, my account was banned and someone else created a newbie account to admit, hey my previous account is tranthidung was banned hours ago. I completely admit that I actually plagiarized and deserve that ban. Today, I create a new account to keep using the forum.

Such attack can harm my chance to appeal for my second chance, IF staff, moderator does not do their own research. Their decision can be seriously biased.

[Upgrade00]

This sort of case has not happened often or at all, so it is understandable if there is no laid down blueprint for handling them. I will assume moderators will use their personal judgement in making a decision, this may be right or wrong and can always be appealed.

Moderators have a decent amount of tools to be able to make an educated guess on whether an account is connected, but Global Moderators, and then the admins are very likely to be more suited to act upon it. I personally would probably leave this type of issue for the higher ups since they've more tools at their disposal. Unless, the evidence was absolute obviously.

I am a little bit curious about what sort of tools mods or admins could use that is not available to regular users, and is not privacy sensitive as well. If it is not something that can be shared, I will totally understand that.

[Welsh]

I am a little bit curious about what sort of tools mods or admins could use that is not available to regular users, and is not privacy sensitive as well. If it is not something that can be shared, I will totally understand that.

By tools, I'm referring to deleted posts that a normal moderator or user can't access (unless created by third party aggregator site), especially when trying to connect an account to another, since deleted posts by moderators could come in handy, IP checks, and various other things. They aren't exactly tools, more like just more access to certain pages. The forum actually has a decent ish alt account detection prompt (exact algorithm unknown), which can be helpful at times. It's by no means an absolute, and it isn't to be treated like X account is linked to Y account, but rather a prompt for further investigation. Its not just that though, a global moderator handling reports in multiple sections, has a higher chance of connecting a post, since if multiple posts of that user is being reported site wide, they might be able to identify the connection easier. I've seen this only on the Altcoin section, since a spammer is usually reported multiple times, and I've caught account farms in this way, and I'm sure a few other moderators have too.

Most accounts that end up getting banned, especially for spam are easily linked. Obviously, they'll be complex examples also, but the vast majority will be for spamming, and spammers usually tend to have more than one account, and write the exact same thing over, and over again without a large amount of variation. Usually, because they're paid or at the very least incentivized to post, and therefore try to churn out as much as possible in a short period of time.  

So, I don't have any special access to anything. Admins will have IP records which could potentially be used. Though, obviously we know that's pretty easy to avoid. Though, I think most on the forum know how to avoid IP identification, they just don't for whatever reason especially when it comes to spammers. Probably laziness.

So to recap, while admins or global moderators might not have more tools at their disposable per say, they do have a better chance of linking accounts simply by using the reports as a tool, if you get me. I tend to leave complicated reports in the queue for this reason, if I don't have any additional information to act upon, and there's reasonable doubt, then perhaps someone else looking to handle it will have additional information. Otherwise, the worse thing that happens is no action is taken, and the report goes unhandled or maybe marked as bad if appropriate. Its likely that every moderator that reviewed that report will make a unconscious note though, so if any other reports crop up with the user then that could spark further investigation too.  

[gmaxwell]

I have repeatedly come across cases where a newbie with a fresh registration date in plain text states that he was banned yesterday and this is his next account.

Unless they were making some post that gave a credible statement that they were banned in error, I'd just nuke the account and not even think twice about it-- especially if they appeared to be acting abusively w/ the new account.

This is a forum, not a court of law.  Unjust bans don't deprive people of their freedom or their life (particularly people who've demonstrated that they're willing and able to evade a ban).  False confessions are a thing, sure, and I wouldn't be completely shocked if a couple people saying they were banned were just trying to sound cool... but I think it's no major loss to lose a user who thinks saying they were banned makes them cool.  If they would eventually grow into a good participant, better that they do it from an account that doesn't have the boat anchor of bragging about being banned in their very first posts.

I don't see any cause to investigate in any depth.  If someone admits to breaking the rules we should feel comfortable taking their word for it.  Perhaps if they didn't behave abusively with the new account we shouldn't hold it further against them -- just nuke it and move on.

Most likely, though-- these people were actually banned.  Excessive exposure to internet crackhouses like reddit and twitter where bragging that you were banned while posting violent harassment usually won't get you banned again unless you blunder into also offending the politics of the corporate overloads just has people thinking they can get away with saying crap like that.

[lovesmayfamilis]

Although this is an old story, but for an example of how some moderators react to the confession of the account owner himself, who had two banned accounts in the story.
I apologize, but the post is written in Russian, but a Google translator will certainly help for understanding.

https://archive.ph/xOyxu
=============================================================================
ban evasion

sashapan

          Hy ecли нe мeня oднy пoнизили, тo и лaднo!  Mнe нe тaк oбиднo я ничeгo нe пиcaлa, этo мoй тpeтий aккayнт, 2 Зaбaнили....  B тpeтьeм  aккayнтe cидeлa Tиxo, ничeгo нe пиcaлa, тoлькo oтчёты нa Бayнти....

https://archive.ph/08PO0

The account admitted that this is already his third account on the forum, and his two previous accounts have been banned.
I reported this to the moderators, but instead of a ban or some kind of negative label, the moderators simply deleted the confirmation message. There is an archive left.  https://archive.ph/08PO0
And the third account sometimes appears on the forum, as if nothing had happened.
Therefore, of course, the moderators can act as they see fit. 

[Welsh]

I don't see any cause to investigate in any depth.  If someone admits to breaking the rules we should feel comfortable taking their word for it.  Perhaps if they didn't behave abusively with the new account we shouldn't hold it further against them -- just nuke it and move on.

Most likely, though-- these people were actually banned.  Excessive exposure to internet crackhouses like reddit and twitter where bragging that you were banned while posting violent harassment usually won't get you banned again unless you blunder into also offending the politics of the corporate overloads just has people thinking they can get away with saying crap like that.

Which is why I think we don't have too many examples of this happening. Only a select few would go to the point of trolling, and that's partly the reason why I usually leave these sort of reports, so that other moderators will be able to take a look, and judge for themselves.

I suspect this sort of thing has been attempted, but I suppose the attitude to it was; don't say you've previously been banned, if you don't want to risk your account. I like to be on the more cautious side, and take a look at it, whereas I know there will be several others who won't think twice.

The thing is, from the way I handle these instances, it would likely be ineffective the majority of the time. Since, as you say the majority are likely bragging, and telling the truth about being banned. So, as some would say, my over cautious approach is likely 99% inefficient most of the time. Though, having it left in the queue, its likely it'll be handled regardless.

The thing is; the majority of the time these users that are admitting to being banned, have already broken some other sort of rule too since they don't really care about how things run here. If they've been banned before, and continue to post here its likely they won't change their behaviour, and be banned whether or not they admit to being banned anyway.

The account admitted that this is already his third account on the forum, and his two previous accounts have been banned.
I reported this to the moderators, but instead of a ban or some kind of negative label, the moderators simply deleted the confirmation message. There is an archive left.  https://archive.ph/08PO0
And the third account sometimes appears on the forum, as if nothing had happened.
Therefore, of course, the moderators can act as they see fit. 

Might be a good idea to contact the local moderators for clarification since most English speaking moderators will ignore these sort of reports due to language difficulties.

[Xal0lex]

The account admitted that this is already his third account on the forum, and his two previous accounts have been banned.
I reported this to the moderators, but instead of a ban or some kind of negative label, the moderators simply deleted the confirmation message. There is an archive left.  https://archive.ph/08PO0
And the third account sometimes appears on the forum, as if nothing had happened.
Therefore, of course, the moderators can act as they see fit. 

Might be a good idea to contact the local moderators for clarification since most English speaking moderators will ignore these sort of reports due to language difficulties.

Addressing local moderators is useless, because they do not have the necessary authority to resolve such issues (in particular, moderators of the Russian section). And there's no point in applying because, like you said: "most English speaking moderators will ignore these sort of reports due to language difficulties."

I think you know what I mean.

[Welsh]

Addressing local moderators is useless, because they do not have the necessary authority to resolve such issues (in particular, moderators of the Russian section). And there's no point in applying because, like you said: "most English speaking moderators will ignore these sort of reports due to language difficulties."

I think you know what I mean.

Yeah, not being able to ban these users, and only being able to recommend. I meant if the report had been handled because it was deleted, but no further action worth giving them a message to see if it was for another reason. I didn't do a good job being clear with that, though.

 Luckily, I haven't really had to deal with complex issues like this, since most of the plagiarist in the Spanish section have been newbies. Not like it happens a lot either there. I know your section in particular is much more busy in terms of number of users posting.

Still probably better to go through local moderators who can then escalate that report if required. I believe I've seen global moderators ban users based on a local mods suggestion.

[Xal0lex]

I believe I've seen global moderators ban users based on a local mods suggestion.

Exactly for the reason mentioned by lovesmayfamilis I personally haven't met any examples.