A solo Bitcoin miner just won block 718214 reward worth 6.25 $BTC

[DannyHamilton]

- a wall of nonsense that still refuses to answer a simple question -

It's very simple.  Stop trying to find hidden meaning in the question, and just answer the question as stated...

If I create CODE (since you like code so much) that enforces, without trust, an agreement between a group of people that all commit to sharing the reward divided proportionally by the amount of work that each individual does when any one of them solves a block, BUT each participant gets to build their own block headers (including choosing the transactions they want in their block, calculating the merkle root, and building their own 80 byte header).

Is that solo mining (because they are building the headers themselves)?  Or is that pool mining (because they are sharing the reward based on the work each performed)?

[franky1]

made up scenario thats no one actually does

your scenario is meaningless because its not a thing thats ever happened in bitcoin thus explains nothing.

i gave you an example.. which is more similar example of your fairy tale scaenario
gavin andressen in 2010 doing his faucet.
because he was generous to pay out to random people after mining.. does not make that generosity a deciding factor if he is a solo or pool mining.
simply saying "im going to spread my payment to random people" has nothing to do with mining solo or pool. its just pure generocity

deciding how to split a reward is not a factor of solo or pool mining
solo or pool is about the proof of work protocol. which is about who manages the blocktemplate collation and creation and who decides what nonce/extranonce range to work on. and who created the coinbase tx(no matter what the reward split terms are)


..
ck pool is not where users make their block template. nor are they the one that got to decide the 98%-2% split
ck pool users cannot decide 'nah i prefer to only give ck 0.01%' because they are not in control of the coinbase or template

[DooMAD]

I don't know if this is a helpful analogy or if I'm only making it worse, but it seems like we're arguing about the difference between Multiplayer Coop and Multiplayer Deathmatch.  Some people are calling deathmatch "solo" because it's not a team game and someone isn't happy because solo sounds more like the Single Player Campaign which is something else.

Calling it a "Deathmatch Pool" does sound kinda cool, but I doubt the idea would gain popularity, heh.    

yep in that analogy multiplayer deathmatch is were only the person doing the round winning hit gets the reward (via the game server deciding the reward split)
yep in that analogy multiplayer coo is were all players doing the round get the reward no matter who gave the final hit(via the game server deciding the reward split)
where in both cases its lots of individuals working together..

ofcourse some(mostly danny) will want to rebrand a single player campaign to mean multiplayer death match by trying to deny the multiplayer aspect is part of the game. and deny the point of the game "deathmatch" and just say the game is only about the reward.

sorry but the important thing about bitcoin is the WORK.. its called Proof of WORK. not receipt of reward
im surprised someone like danny is trying to re-imagine what proof of work mining is about, just to cater to ck's tweaking of words for some PR.

Does it matter, though?  I very much doubt people are suddenly going to stop calling it Solo mining just because you find it disagreeable.  Much like how I'm never going to convince people to stop calling it a "Bitcoin Wallet" because I personally believe "Bitcoin Keyring" sounds like a far more accurate representation of what that thing actually is.  That's just what everyone calls it.  Even if it doesn't make as much rational sense as it might do to call it something else.  And it's the same for this Solo pool.  People obviously wanted a way to differentiate it from conventional pools.  This just happens to be the name that fell into common parlance and now we're stuck with it.  Just accept it and try not to turn this into another one of your lifelong campaigns / lost causes. 

[franky1]

its not common though.

its not the description of the term thats existed for over a decade,
its something that is trying to go viral this year as being the new description, pretending the 10-12year old term is the false term

.. i think danny has run out of silly non real scenarios. and i answered his hypothetical by trying to find a close approximate real scenario of comparison(andressens faucet) so i have answered his questions.
thus the debate is dead now.

so moving onto other wrongly treated terms(because doomad asked) that change the definition to cause actual risk to users and a false sense of security..
i too prefer keyring instead of wallet, but thats not a seciruty/risk/function change debate worth pushing, its just grammar.. so lets think about some that are related to changing the function/work/risk/security

ill skip the obvious altnet treated as bitcoin risks. (ill be generous this time)

so lets go with pruned defined as full
fullnodes existed before pruning was even an option. where a fullnode was and is validate AND archiving. because thats what fullnodes did from 2009-2015, but for a ~7years people gently, and now this year some are pushing HARD to change the meaning to make a less then full feature/service node pretend to be called a full feature full service node.. without offering the full node features/service/security.

new peers connecting to a pruned node cant Initial Block Download from the pruned node.
a pruned nodes utxoset is not hash locked to periodically check the data is still unedited, meaning trojans can hijack the utxoset, slip in a bad utxo and suddenly.. if including this bad utxo to enough nodes. the nodes wont know any better and treat it as an unspent value that someone can then spend. which can cause a chain split between pruned vs unpruned nodes.
alot of people think its not important whether its archived or pruned. but it actually is. the data accuracy of the hashes is a security feature,
not only that, but  if we moved from:
80,000 full nodes serving 500,000 lite wallets (1 full services 7.25 peers)
to
20,000 full nodes serving 60,000 pruned nodes, 500,000 lite wallets (1 full services 29 peers)
meaning 4x pressure on the full nodes that remain and the decentralised blockchain is 4x less distributed
full nodes is why its called a decentralised blockchain and not a distributed utxoset

im not talking about all 580,000(exampled) users need to be full nodes. im saying that trying to convince existing full noders, or newbies that truly want to be the network backbone support full node users, to downgrade their service/feature/security offering thus have less full nodes. impacts many things

the point is silly people trying to be insincere about the terminology to set an agenda to get some newbies to think they are getting something they are not or they are doing something they are not. pretending newbies are doing more then they actually are. where newbies are then using something they think is secure as what they were told.. but isnt

which if allowed to go viral where everyone believes the insincerity and everyone flipped over to the insincere method. they are going to cause themselves problem, all for the personal gains of the people that want the insincere stuff to be treated as trusted fully working utopia, when its not as utopian in reality.

[DannyHamilton]

its not common though.

its not the description of the term thats existed for over a decade,

And yet it is.

.. i think danny has run out of silly non real scenarios. and i answered his hypothetical by trying to find a close approximate real scenario of comparison(andressens faucet) so i have answered his questions.

You have not.  You've ignored the inconvenience of my question, and created your own strawman scenario that was easier for you to deal with.

thus the debate is dead now.

Glad to hear it.  So, you've come around and accepted that the concept of a "pool" refers to "pooling" the revenue?

fullnodes existed before pruning was even an option. where a fullnode was and is. . .

This sounds like a new discussion. It seems to be off-topic for this thread.

[franky1]

its not common though.

its not the description of the term thats existed for over a decade,

And yet it is.

.. i think danny has run out of silly non real scenarios. and i answered his hypothetical by trying to find a close approximate real scenario of comparison(andressens faucet) so i have answered his questions.

You have not.  You've ignored the inconvenience of my question, and created your own strawman scenario that was easier for you to deal with.

thus the debate is dead now.

Glad to hear it.  So, you've come around and accepted that the concept of a "pool" refers to "pooling" the revenue?

fullnodes existed before pruning was even an option. where a fullnode was and is. . .

This sounds like a new discussion. It seems to be off-topic for this thread.

danny
you created the strawman. your question involved a fallacy scenario that no one does.. no one has ever done!!
i tried to reel you back to reality by trying to find a real scenario that is as close to what you described.
and i explained how the decision on how to share the reward does not decide if that person was a pool or solo. its just about if someone is generous or not. EG if you have a job. and get paid (employed or self employed) and then decide to just spread your wage around to random people. your generosity is not the decider of your employment status

and just because the dabate is over because you ran out of silly fallacy strawman scenarios that never happen in real life, to use as weird unproven proof of your fallacy new description, is not a win on your side. its your loss.
solo mining is a term thats been known for 12+ years. its not the one your trying to create this year

pool mining is about the MINING   (hint is in the word)

edit to answer below..
seems danny has forgotten the whole point of blockchain protocol. and thinks its just about random token sharing
he seems to be forgetting, avoiding, ignoring, dismissing the real point of mining, just to set a new terminology
danny have you flipped fully to the darkside of "bitcoin without the blockchain" group?

[DannyHamilton]

danny
you created the strawman.

I did not.

your question involved a fallacy scenario that no one does..

It did not.

i tried to reel you back to reality by trying to find a real scenario that is as close to what you described.

You did not.

solo mining is a term thats been known for 12+ years.

It has not.

pool mining is about the MINING   (hint is in the word)

POOL mining is about POOLING (hint is in the word)

[DooMAD]

its something that is trying to go viral this year as being the new description

Then why can I find forum topics referring to solopools dated from 2013?  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262712.0

It's clearly not a "new" description.  I know you have difficulty coping when real life doesn't match your bizarre preconceived notions, but this appears to be yet another one of those occasions.  The term has clearly been in use for a long time.  Hell, it's been in use on these forums longer than I've been registered here.

[franky1]

its something that is trying to go viral this year as being the new description

Then why can I find forum topics referring to solopools dated from 2013?  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262712.0

It's clearly not a "new" description.  I know you have difficulty coping when real life doesn't match your bizarre preconceived notions, but this appears to be yet another one of those occasions.  The term has clearly been in use for a long time.  Hell, it's been in use on these forums longer than I've been registered here.

the concept of solo mining is as old as bitcoin
the concept of pool mining is as old as 2010+

the brand "solopool" is newer (2014) but even then they still refer to it as a pool.
they actually were saying "solopool" not solo mining
emphasis on the different terms.

Many miners want to gamble on solo mining, [u]unfortunately not all have the skills to setup solo and the stats they would like[/u].
Why Solopool? We aim to offer a "pool like" experience but blockfinders will be rewarded 24.5+(1/2 transaction fees from block)BTC ie: rewards will not be shared among other miners.

back then it was a "solopool" it was not actually trying to define itself as allowing users to set up as a solo mining
so the buzzword was solopool in 2013-4
..
its only this year that they are trying to go hyper on making it viral that its solo mining

heck even ck used to say pool alot even in 2014

This pool is designed to fill a niche and be complementary to a comprehensive regular pooled mining solution currently under development with the ckpool code which will hopefully be able to open up to the public in the near future.

In addition to providing a unique service to miners, this pool is a technology development demonstration and testing ground for the massively scaleable ultra-low overhead  ckpool code under heavy development.  It is intentionally designed to be extremely low frill and minimally featured but provide maximum performance.

There are no configuration options and all miners will initially start out at diff 1024 but the pool offers full vardiff support from ultra low speed devices to any sized massive pooled solo farms.

but certain people in 2022 are trying to deny the pool element to pretend its the same thing as solo mining, a defined term right back from the start of 2009

..

here is danny in 2022 trying to change things by pretending people dont understand the 2009-2010 concepts.. and then trying to rebrand the 2014 brand 'solopool' into being the same as the 2009 concept solo mining

his concept of what it means to be solo mining vs pools mining is not the widely accepted and understood concept.

Pool (vs. solo) was created specifically because of the reward.

notice how he removes the word "mining" to avoid talking about what mining(hashing a block) is about (the whole protocol) and wants to pretend mining is just rewarding
and that "unfortunately not all have the skills to setup solo and the stats they would like"

[BlackHatCoiner]

And yet, another thread that has been derailed by franky. Maybe you want to move to the official, supposedly-discussable thread created solely for such cases: [self-moderated] Is LN Bitcoin? franky1: About scaling, on-chain and off-chain.

[franky1]

blackhat i am talking about this topic. yet you chime in to advertise another topic.. you have derailed

getting back to the topic of solo
ill keep it short

2009+: solo mining: user uses is own node to collate his chosen transactions, form own block template, and hashes it
2010+: pool mining: pool manager collates the chosen transactions, forms own block template, sends work to users

2013+: "solopool": pool manager collates the chosen transactions, forms own block template, sends work to users give winner high %

2022: silly people trying to redeifine "solopool" to be solo mining, ignoring the mining part and pretending solo mining was always about the reward..
no "solopool"(brand) was about the reward as the main difference between "solopool"(brand) vs pool mining(process)..
but the reward was not the consideration between solo mining(process) vs pool mining(process)..

pool mining solo rewarding is the better wording which was shortened to "solopool"(brand) ... NOT solo mining(process)
so stop trying to change solo mining to sound like it has noting to do with solo MINING and everything to do with just the reward share

..
moving on