A heads up on phone wallets and border crossings.

[btc-freedom-money]

This is one of the biggest reasons to never go to usa for a vacation. USA is the most corrupt country in the world. It doesn't matter if they have fourth ammendment and any other laws that protect people when those laws are not followed.

Read the law and ask a lawyer and they will say you have nothing to worry about, the laws protect you. Then you read the experiences by travelers and incredibly many people are saying their rights have been violated.

Yes other countries do this too but usa is the worst of them all. And it's also usa who started with this corrupt scheme which inspired some other countries to do the same.

That is really what separates good lawyers from bad ones. The bad ones just read the law and tell you what the law says. The good ones will look at how the laws are actually followed. It's about theory (laws) vs what happens in reality (corruption).

[NotFuzzyWarm]

This is one of the biggest reasons to never go to usa for a vacation. USA is the most corrupt country in the world. It doesn't matter if they have fourth ammendment and any other laws that protect people when those laws are not followed.

Read the law and ask a lawyer and they will say you have nothing to worry about, the laws protect you. Then you read the experiences by travelers and incredibly many people are saying their rights have been violated.

Yes other countries do this too but usa is the worst of them all. And it's also usa who started with this corrupt scheme which inspired some other countries to do the same.

Bullshit.
Even been to Russia or any of the Balkan states? Perhaps Nigeria or Mexico? Indonesia maybe? The list goes on and on...

As I posted in the original thread about this: Some hard stats on US CBP traveler screening from https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-search-electronic-devices  emphasis is mine:

Of the 420 million travelers CBP processed at ports of entry in FY 2024, 12,660,784 (3%) travelers were referred for a secondary inspection.

A border search of electronics is not a required action during a secondary inspection. In fact, CBP only conducted border searches of the electronic devices of 47,047 travelers in FY 2024, representing approximately 0.3% of secondary inspections and less than 0.01% of all arriving international travelers encountered at ports of entry.

Of the 47,047 border searches of electronic devices encountered at port of entry, 42,725 (90%) were basic searches in which the devices were not connected to external equipment to review, copy and/or analyze its contents.

Given that - I for one have zero concerns crossing US borders. Of course regarding other countries could well be a different story... It all depends on their own laws.

As a Frequent Traveller with over 8 million air-miles to my record from when I worked as an industrial laser Field Engineer for over 48 years flying all over the US and the world, at least 1/2 of the miles were from international travel. In all those years only 2x did I have to go through any sort of secondary screening in ANY country and none involved searches of my computer or phone. One country was China and the other oddly enough was Canada - both were only interested in the contents of my service tools kit and details of my work VISA.

As long as you cross every 'T' and dot every 'i' in your entry paperwork and don't act like a self-righteous ass if US CBP or most any other country's Border Patrol stops you for a few questions you WILL be fine. Out of 420 million travelers legally entering the US last year 97% (407,339,216) had zero issues needing secondary inspections

[PrivacyG]

As long as you cross every 'T' and dot every 'i' in your entry paperwork and don't act like a self-righteous ass if US CBP or most any other country's Border Patrol stops you for a few questions you WILL be fine. Out of 420 million travelers legally entering the US last year 97% (407,339,216) had zero issues needing secondary inspections

I believe this is true.  I have seen so many people acting extremely self-righteous and ignorant or evasive while crossing borders and I have never seen ONE such instance where their attitude helped their situation in any way.  For somebody like that, a secondary screening is no surprise.  In fact, to me it is even expected.

No way does it mean I would travel with a lot of money in my phone Cryptocurrency wallet, but in my opinion ideally nobody should ever cross border carrying ANY hint about owning cryptocurrencies.  This can easily land anybody in either unnecessary suspicion or unnecessary trouble.  Now imagine you are crossing into another country where just recently a terror attack happened and you are the first to give hints about using Cryptocurrencies.  Why potentially put yourself on a list?

There are so many ways to avoid this.  Hell.  If you cross borders planning to carry and use a stash of over a hundred thousand, simply purchase a cheap Android device after crossing the border to use as a payment device and then discard the phone before leaving the country.  If such large amounts are involved I would make sure I find a way to hide the seed extremely well until I cross.  Sew it inside a wallet.  Encode it into a piece of clothing.  There are many ways to do it.  Crossing China, the United States, Russia or any other country with more serious or stricter border rules while having hundreds of thousands on your phone and not even declaring it, that is simply asking for trouble and even I would suspect somebody in that situation if I was a border patrol.

But then if one does not declare their amounts before crossing, what is the point of even carrying that much on themselves.  Unless they are trying to flee their country and to do so they have to cross countries like China, there is no point in my opinion.

Anyway.  The best thing to do is arrive at the borders in such a way you are least likely to be suspected and thrown into unnecessary trouble.

[bbc.reporter]

No way does it mean I would travel with a lot of money in my phone Cryptocurrency wallet, but in my opinion ideally nobody should ever cross border carrying ANY hint about owning cryptocurrencies.  This can easily land anybody in either unnecessary suspicion or unnecessary trouble.  Now imagine you are crossing into another country where just recently a terror attack happened and you are the first to give hints about using Cryptocurrencies.  Why potentially put yourself on a list?

This is does not only land you on unnecessary suspicion and troubles with the government. This will certainly also land you as a kidnapping for ransom risk and these people will not stop unless they have taken everything from you. Also, giving them everything does not assure you that you will come out with your life. This is certainly why government agencies have a rule of no real negotiations with these type of people. They only pretend to negotiate to keep the victim alive and give them time to find the location.

On social media, you will see these people who are new to the cryptospace take selfies with their wallets. They are making it very much easy for criminals and for the government to track them hehehe.

[bitbollo]

...

That's an interesting question, and I guess any country could have some similar rules... I am not surprised if this can become a problem in a second time everywhere... 
There is a similar law in EU with a limit of 10K when you travel between countries ... it's a really low amount since just with a watch you can highly surpass the amount. Personally I have never seen too much interest into this but later this could dramatically change (likewise with declarations or forced inspections).
In this specific case in USA, this applies only to crypto wallets (like ethereum) or it could be applied to CEX or BANKS accounts like XAPO that could hold coins?
Likewise, if someone has 100K+ directly in this app? These should be declared before? There is a risk even here?
Cold wallets that could be retrivied with a cloud could fall into this legislation?

[btc-freedom-money]

I for one have zero concerns crossing US borders.

You are just one person and I don't know who you are. It's important to point out that the trouble is usually with entering or re-entering usa. I have read a lot of facebook, twitter, reddit posts/comments that even normal innocent u.s. citizens who go on a vacation outside usa, they never mention any problems going to the other country. The problem is always the return flight to usa, that's when they have their rights violated.

Here is a link to a good article: https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/ill-never-bring-my-phone-on-an-international-flight-again-neither-should-you-e9289cde0e5f/

USA CBP wanted him to unlock his phone and he explained that it's a work phone with sensitive information (NASA) so he can't do that. Then they locked him up in a cell with lots of other people and eventually he gave in and gave them the password.

Ask a lawyer how is it possible to for the statistics to be so low. And btw, don't think think it's strange that the statistics are so low when there are so many people saying their rights are being violated? The lawyer can speculate on some ideas why, such as incorrect statistics caused by lack of transparency or corruption, travelers might not be aware of their rights and therefore don't go through official channels to report the violation.

And the most likely reason is probably that their corrupt policies encourage violating travelers rights. It's everywhere said

The TSA also provides guidance on how to prepare electronic devices for security checks. For example, you should remove any external devices, such as USB drives or CDs, and place them in a separate bin for screening. You should also be prepared to turn on your device or provide the password to unlock it if requested by a TSA agent.
The TSA is authorized to inspect electronic devices, including laptops, and may request that you turn it on or provide the password to unlock it.
If you refuse to cooperate with a TSA agent, you may be subject to additional screening or, in extreme cases, have your device confiscated. However, this is rare and usually only occurs when there’s a legitimate security concern.

This prepares the travelers to have their rights violated. It says we should unlock our phone for them if its requested. These instructions assume that TSA will only ask if they have a warrent or court order but the problem is that they ask all the time even if they don't have reasonable cause. And the travelers are being tricked and brain washed into voluntarily giving it to them. If they don't they get thrown into a cell like the article I linked.

[PrivacyG]

Ask a lawyer how is it possible to for the statistics to be so low.

But the numbers are not LOW if you think about it.  3 percent is a lot.  Every time you cross borders, your chance increases to fall for a secondary inspection.  In the numbers NotFuzzyWarm presented, around 13 MILLION people went through second screening only in the last year.  That is over 1 million per month or over 35 thousand travelers per day.  The number is in fact huge, even if it is almost nothing compared to TOTAL number of travelers.

I know people who traveled to the United States and went through secondary screening.  They had their devices checked too.  In fact, I believe the majority of the people I heard of traveling to the United States had border patrol go through their phones.  I also often heard the worst thing you can do is bring USB sticks and hard drives.

It sounds insane that these are among the worst things you can travel with, but it is what it is.  The best thing to do is simply travel with a dumb phone or a clean smart phone with only essential applications installed on it.  If they ever check you, you at least have nothing to worry about.

-----

On social media, you will see these people who are new to the cryptospace take selfies with their wallets. They are making it very much easy for criminals and for the government to track them hehehe.

That is asking to be robbed.  If people like the attention they almost never even receive at all from posting their wealth all over the internet, then the problem and the consequences are on their own shoulders.  It seems very silly to me, but there are a ton of people who never seem to realize how many problems they can get themselves in for a few upvotes on the internet.

[YOSHIE]

So be careful leaving and entering the country.

Wow, I should have seen this topic on April 20 yesterday, on the 21st yesterday my friend went to the US to visit his brother's place, he worked in one of the restaurants in the US as a chef, because his brother wanted to get married as my friend I have to go there, I should have warned him before, yes I knew he had a crypto wallet and a fund wallet.

Unfortunately I can't contact him, maybe he should replace something towards his cellphone, I also just know the laws and rules in the US at the moment, hopefully he doesn't have problems when at the airport and visa place.
@philipma1957, thank you the information.

[cabron]

So you don't allow your wife to hold your phone but the airport personnel has the right to unlock your phone. They don't know boundaries anymore.

You solution I think is just memorizing your seed phrase in crossing borders, nothing can be searched from you when its just in your mind. This could just be the beginning though, maybe they will also be opening your flash drives and laptops when you cross borders.

[FinneysTrueVision]

So you don't allow your wife to hold your phone but the airport personnel has the right to unlock your phone. They don't know boundaries anymore.

You solution I think is just memorizing your seed phrase in crossing borders, nothing can be searched from you when its just in your mind. This could just be the beginning though, maybe they will also be opening your flash drives and laptops when you cross borders.

If I am going to travel, I would encrypt all my devices and disable biometric unlocking, so they will be forced to guess the passwords and they will get permanently locked out after several failed attempts. There is no respect for legal, constitutionally protected rights anymore and people can get disappeared for criticizing Trump’s Zionist masters.

[pushups44]

Given that - I for one have zero concerns crossing US borders. Of course regarding other countries could well be a different story... It all depends on their own laws.

Not everyone is a U.S. citizen, and people are being detained under questionable circumstances right now (including some Europeans) in the U.S. This is an international forum, and so it's not just about you.

[pushups44]

Ask a lawyer how is it possible to for the statistics to be so low.

But the numbers are not LOW if you think about it.  3 percent is a lot.  Every time you cross borders, your chance increases to fall for a secondary inspection.  In the numbers NotFuzzyWarm presented, around 13 MILLION people went through second screening only in the last year.  That is over 1 million per month or over 35 thousand travelers per day.  The number is in fact huge, even if it is almost nothing compared to TOTAL number of travelers.

I know people who traveled to the United States and went through secondary screening.  They had their devices checked too.  In fact, I believe the majority of the people I heard of traveling to the United States had border patrol go through their phones.  I also often heard the worst thing you can do is bring USB sticks and hard drives.

It sounds insane that these are among the worst things you can travel with, but it is what it is.  The best thing to do is simply travel with a dumb phone or a clean smart phone with only essential applications installed on it.  If they ever check you, you at least have nothing to worry about.

What boggles the mind here is that when it comes to security, we should generally - in my view - take an overly cautious approach, rather than an approach based on statistical averages. We should look at anomalies or exceptions. Thus, I find it bizarre that the claim that only some people's devices are being checked - to say nothing about the many other issues that can arise - means it's not a problem people should worry about.

I guess the libertarian slant has not reared its head on this issue. Wow.

[pushups44]

This happened 11 years ago but I have a feeling this isn't the only case.

TSA Harasses Traveler After 'Seeing Bitcoin' In His Bag

https://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-tsa-screening-2014-2

There has been a lot of discussion and link-posting regarding the CBP - who are far from pristine on the privacy issues discussed - and less on the TSA and private security goon squads that can bring trouble to bitcoiners.

To this day, many uneducated people associate bitcoin with criminality. I think we all know a high level of education is not a requirement to join the TSA or private security.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Something I've yet to see in any complaints about screening is what the US CBP is wanting to see on a phone or other device when folks are being stopped. Again, there has to be a reason for them to ask - they are NOT allowed to just scroll through the contents of a phone or other device to see what's on it just for the heck of it - they will be looking for specific things.

My 1st guess is because the travelers documents such as ticket, hotel and tour reservations etc are there. Since these days more and more travelers don't carry hard copies of the documents the only way to verify them is via their phone or other device.

For foreign travelers entering the US - something that is always asked is length of stay, return ticket and lodging info, if you need a VISA to enter - what kind. Those are the basic things they will ALWAYS want to know and you should ALWAYS be prepared to give. Pretty sure that applies to entering any country.

 Print them out and now no reason to look at an electronic device...

As for TSA screening - all they will want to see is that the device turns on. During my decades of travel that is ALL they ever wanted to see (Disclaimer: I am fully registered w/TSA and CBP Global Entry programs). In the case of a laptop, they are happy as soon as the initial boot or login screen pops up. They just need to verify that the large, dense, objects in them are batteries & not explosives. TSA's scope only covers ensuring travel safety meaning they have no rights to actually examine what is stored on an electronic device as part of regular screening.

[pushups44]

Something I've yet to see in any complaints about screening is what the US CBP is wanting to see on a phone or other device when folks are being stopped. Again, there has to be a reason for them to ask - they are NOT allowed to just scroll through the contents of a phone or other device to see what's on it just for the heck of it - they will be looking for specific things.

With all due respect - and you seem like a friendly guy - this is just not true in all cases. There are reports, covered by legal websites and authorities, of devices getting seized. We also are hearing stories lately of people being detained at airports - sometimes without cause legally - and it's quite probable they get their devices seized. What you are writing about here are your experiences and what most people will experience - though even this is stretching it with a touch of generosity.

From WaPo:

Customs officials have copied Americans’ phone data at massive scale

"Contacts, call logs, messages and photos from up to 10,000 travelers’ phones are saved to a government database every year"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/15/government-surveillance-database-dhs/

For foreign travelers entering the US - something that is always asked is length of stay, return ticket and lodging info, if you need a VISA to enter - what kind. Those are the basic things they will ALWAYS want to know and you should ALWAYS be prepared to give. Pretty sure that applies to entering any country.

Travelers can get interrogated with much wider-ranging questioning than what you posted, U.S. citizen or not. This also says nothing of what travelers may experience at foreign (non-U.S.) airports, particularly if security is at a high state of alert.

TSA's scope only covers ensuring travel safety meaning they have no rights to actually examine what is stored on an electronic device as part of regular screening.

TSA has engaged in very intrusive and questionable behaviors far removed from promoting public safety. All you are doing is repeating government talking points - and again I mean no offense, as you seem respectful. TSA agents have been known at times to engage in theft. Much of their protocol, not always followed by individual agents, is arguably not serving the public in promoting safety. I understand that airports need to be secured, so I won't be an ass here and say they serve absolutely no purpose, but I'll go out on a limb and guess they engage in plenty of security theater.

[m2017]

If you enter the USA with 100k worth of BTC in your phone wallet and it is undeclared you could lose it.

It seems a bit silly to me not to use the main advantage of bitcoin - it is a digital form of money that someone needed to transport across the border in "physical" (conditionally physical, because you can get physical access to this money) form in the phone. Isn't it more reasonable to send bitcoi across the border in electronic form via the BTC-network? The disadvantages are that you will need to cross the border several times. Once, to find yourself in a new place (country), create and save the seed phrase. And the second time, when you return, to send btc from the old wallet (from the old country) to the new one (new country). Yes, this will require additional costs and time, but it will save you from checks.

I still remember people were discussing about bring hardware wallet to the airport, but after I read this, better to destroy or leave it in hidden place.

With the spread of crypto and hardware wallets, this question will arise more and more often. If customs officers check phones for the presence of crypto wallet, the day is not far off when they will start checking for the presence of hardware wallets, and if they find one, ask uncomfortable questions.