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Author Topic: The Bitcoin environment seems toxic right now... has it felt like this before?  (Read 10987 times)
AnonyMint
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March 26, 2014, 10:24:21 PM
 #121

Quote:


"White is a factor because browner people are too busy enjoying the outdoor and natural life. The white males are stuck inside with winter and find indoor male hobbies. Females in general aren't going to adopt anything that is not super easy, not threatening, available in pink, and lovingly accepted by their peers."

"First of all Bitcoin (as it currently stands unless morphed as I say above) will be limited to reasonably affluent, white males mostly under age 50. Thus figure the upper limit of adoption is several hundred million. Note NE Asians are white."

Anonymint. If you want to break out of the rather small racial / misogynistic  bubble

My knowledge is based on wide-range of real world experiences and having actually lived in the third world for nearly 2 decades.

I grew up in all black inner city slums in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, and my mother and stepfather were very liberal. And I grew up believing that women and men are equal.

Later on life taught me the truth the hard way.

A racist or misogynist is someone who discriminates illogically against race or gender. Rather I am forming rational conclusions by employing falsifiable tests. This is known as the scientific method.

you are opining from you could research what Mpesa (Kenya based, with hundreds of millions of Africans as a customer base, skin color other-than-white) is doing with bitcoin. Implementation being lead by a young woman who spends more time with African bankers than barbies.

Or not. Your choice.

Someone mentioned tersely "1 in 3 Kenyans use Bitcoin" in another thread 2 days ago, and two of us requested a citation and the poster did not reply, so I didn't google it. That was the first time I'd heard that claim. Your post incited me to dig:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-18

Quote
Dozens of mobile-money systems have been launched, so why has Kenya’s been the most successful? It had several factors in its favour, including the exceptionally high cost of sending money by other methods; the dominant market position of Safaricom; the regulator's initial decision to allow the scheme to proceed on an experimental basis, without formal approval; a clear and effective marketing campaign (“Send money home”); an efficient system to move cash around behind the scenes; and, most intriguingly, the post-election violence in the country in early 2008. M-PESA was used to transfer money to people trapped in Nairobi's slums at the time, and some Kenyans regarded M-PESA as a safer place to store their money than the banks, which were entangled in ethnic disputes. Having established a base of initial users, M-PESA then benefitted from network effects: the more people who used it, the more it made sense for others to sign up for it.

So now I see why it succeeded there but failed here in the Philippines. We have SmartMoney and Globe Cash here but it is not widely used. Filipinos prefer cash, even though they are SMS capital of the world and top 3 country in the world for using digital media. There are also vendors here every where for loading your cell phone prepaid balance.

But there isn't a big incentive to move away from cash. Cash works and when you need to send cash money, there are peso padala branches on every other block.

Whereas in Kenya the chaos meant they didn't have these well developed cash markets, so they needed something. And this monopoly by one phone carrier made it possible to get the economies-of-scale whereas we have 3 main phone carriers here.


But whoever says Kenyans are using Bitcoin is smoking dope:

http://www.bankinnovation.net/2014/02/mpesa-is-smoking-bitcoin-in-number-of-transactions/

In spite of the correction to the chart on that page, Bitcoin transactions are not a significant percentage of M-PESA transactions. That is global Bitcoin txs shown in comparison and besides upt 59% of BTC txs were SatoshiDice at some point in the past and many txs are mixers, etc.. Lets try to find some hard data on BTX txs in Kenya? Scientific method.

You fundamentally don't understand relative wealth. This is not a mistake I would expect rpietila to make:

http://www.cgap.org/blog/10-things-you-thought-you-knew-about-m-pesa

Quote
4 – You thought M-PESA’s success meant it is now a huge systemic risk The accumulated balance of all the M-PESA accounts represents just 0.2% of bank deposits by value. M-PESA is far from exerting a systemic risk. In June 2010, M-PESA transactions amounted to about 70% of the volume of electronic transactions in the country but were only 2.3% in value. M-PESA’s success means there is a real need for small electronic transactions and storage of value. It was designed with limits on how much can be transacted (no more than 70,000Ksh leaving the account daily) and stored (maximum account balance is 50,000Ksh). Cash-in, cash-out and P2P transfers are limited to 35,000Ksh per transaction.


So again, I stand by my original statement. Only the white boys have a need for the illogical 10 minute transaction system called Bitcoin.

Still feeling smug white boy?

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CoinMode
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March 28, 2014, 01:24:12 PM
 #122

Quote:


"White is a factor because browner people are too busy enjoying the outdoor and natural life. The white males are stuck inside with winter and find indoor male hobbies. Females in general aren't going to adopt anything that is not super easy, not threatening, available in pink, and lovingly accepted by their peers."

"First of all Bitcoin (as it currently stands unless morphed as I say above) will be limited to reasonably affluent, white males mostly under age 50. Thus figure the upper limit of adoption is several hundred million. Note NE Asians are white."

Anonymint. If you want to break out of the rather small racial / misogynistic  bubble

My knowledge is based on wide-range of real world experiences and having actually lived in the third world for nearly 2 decades.

I grew up in all black inner city slums in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, and my mother and stepfather were very liberal. And I grew up believing that women and men are equal.

Later on life taught me the truth the hard way.

A racist or misogynist is someone who discriminates illogically against race or gender. Rather I am forming rational conclusions by employing falsifiable tests. This is known as the scientific method.

you are opining from you could research what Mpesa (Kenya based, with hundreds of millions of Africans as a customer base, skin color other-than-white) is doing with bitcoin. Implementation being lead by a young woman who spends more time with African bankers than barbies.

Or not. Your choice.

Someone mentioned tersely "1 in 3 Kenyans use Bitcoin" in another thread 2 days ago, and two of us requested a citation and the poster did not reply, so I didn't google it. That was the first time I'd heard that claim. Your post incited me to dig:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-18

Quote
Dozens of mobile-money systems have been launched, so why has Kenya’s been the most successful? It had several factors in its favour, including the exceptionally high cost of sending money by other methods; the dominant market position of Safaricom; the regulator's initial decision to allow the scheme to proceed on an experimental basis, without formal approval; a clear and effective marketing campaign (“Send money home”); an efficient system to move cash around behind the scenes; and, most intriguingly, the post-election violence in the country in early 2008. M-PESA was used to transfer money to people trapped in Nairobi's slums at the time, and some Kenyans regarded M-PESA as a safer place to store their money than the banks, which were entangled in ethnic disputes. Having established a base of initial users, M-PESA then benefitted from network effects: the more people who used it, the more it made sense for others to sign up for it.

So now I see why it succeeded there but failed here in the Philippines. We have SmartMoney and Globe Cash here but it is not widely used. Filipinos prefer cash, even though they are SMS capital of the world and top 3 country in the world for using digital media. There are also vendors here every where for loading your cell phone prepaid balance.

But there isn't a big incentive to move away from cash. Cash works and when you need to send cash money, there are peso padala branches on every other block.

Whereas in Kenya the chaos meant they didn't have these well developed cash markets, so they needed something. And this monopoly by one phone carrier made it possible to get the economies-of-scale whereas we have 3 main phone carriers here.


But whoever says Kenyans are using Bitcoin is smoking dope:

http://www.bankinnovation.net/2014/02/mpesa-is-smoking-bitcoin-in-number-of-transactions/

In spite of the correction to the chart on that page, Bitcoin transactions are not a significant percentage of M-PESA transactions. That is global Bitcoin txs shown in comparison and besides upt 59% of BTC txs were SatoshiDice at some point in the past and many txs are mixers, etc.. Lets try to find some hard data on BTX txs in Kenya? Scientific method.

You fundamentally don't understand relative wealth. This is not a mistake I would expect rpietila to make:

http://www.cgap.org/blog/10-things-you-thought-you-knew-about-m-pesa

Quote
4 – You thought M-PESA’s success meant it is now a huge systemic risk The accumulated balance of all the M-PESA accounts represents just 0.2% of bank deposits by value. M-PESA is far from exerting a systemic risk. In June 2010, M-PESA transactions amounted to about 70% of the volume of electronic transactions in the country but were only 2.3% in value. M-PESA’s success means there is a real need for small electronic transactions and storage of value. It was designed with limits on how much can be transacted (no more than 70,000Ksh leaving the account daily) and stored (maximum account balance is 50,000Ksh). Cash-in, cash-out and P2P transfers are limited to 35,000Ksh per transaction.


So again, I stand by my original statement. Only the white boys have a need for the illogical 10 minute transaction system called Bitcoin.

Still feeling smug white boy?

You should be banned for life. I still think you work for a bank.
MiningSensei
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March 28, 2014, 01:26:48 PM
 #123

Definetly a hazardous environment with all of the attention.  I would be happier if it was just quietly growing and not being eyed up by governments and banks.

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zolace
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March 28, 2014, 01:55:14 PM
 #124

Guys since people are dumping there bitcoins because of the tax law, ya better jump on the bitcoin wagon now, before the price zooms up in a few months.  I dont wanna hear, oh If I knew the price was going to go 1200 I would have bought 500 dollars worth of bitcoins.  boo hoo dont go crying.

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mjsbuddha
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March 28, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
 #125

Perhaps it's just the forums, but I feel like there's a lot of negative vibes coming from BTC right now. 
I've following Bitcoin and mining for a while but never bothered with forums until recently.  Is this common amongst forum-goers or is it really just Bitcoin in general?

I've been around in the bitcoin world since 2010. This feels a lot like when the price fell after the all time high of $35 back to $3. It might lose 90% again and go back to $100 but it will go back up. It always does.
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