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Author Topic: Bitcoin Lightning Network Growth 1212% in the last 2 years  (Read 331 times)
franky1
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October 15, 2023, 03:22:11 AM
 #41

no one should advocate everyone drop the bitcoin network and all move over to a single crap insecure bottlenecked buggy subnetwork proported as being "the solution"

there must be a multi-effort approach
firstly. devs that adore subnetworks should not only admit that their favoured subnetwork has bugs they cant fix, but instead move on and start afresh, learn from mistakes and make a new subnetwork without the issues. then not just have one subnetwork but multiple networks that solve different purposes. much like dollar does not just have cash, but it has cheques, visa, mastercard, giftcards, etc

the next part is bitcoin should not become the sole utility for CEX reserve swaps. those CEX can do reserve swaps on their own subnetwork. whereby the onchain utility is expanded for those that want to withdraw/close session to hoard longterm independently using lean transactions to allow many many thousands per block to hoard long term securely. rather than leave funds locked into subnetworks/CEX's

the mainnet should be for individual sovereign control of wealth independently. not become a centralist services reserve rail, throwing users to hold pepged value units in subnetworks falsely thinking they are secure in the subnetwork

as for tx fee's since 2015 tx counts were only 2000tx average and now although 4x data load has been deemed safe/non invasive the tx count is not 8k plus. the cludgy miscounting of bytes and the segregated dataload preventing full 4mb usage per lean tx needs to be reconfigured back into proper 4mb base block this would then allow more people to transact meaning less sats per tx yet give mining pools large totals, thus helping users use bitcoin and miners get  a nice bonus ontop of the main reward, whereby the base size does periodically increase (not large leaps like idiots pretend is the only option)

im not just suggesting "bigger blocks" its about better utility of blocks, its about fixing the rules that allow untransactional bloat. its about not penalising all users in a tx fee war but having rules that penalise spammers the most

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
3kpk3
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October 15, 2023, 06:23:23 AM
 #42

Expected a lot from LN, but it didn't really impress me and many others so far though that could change in the future as it keeps getting updated regularly. It could prove to be a useful alternative when the BTC network gets clogged like crazy.

SegWit is more than enough for almost everyone these days thanks to the quick TX times and extremely low fees.

BlackHatCoiner
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October 15, 2023, 08:19:12 AM
 #43

It's not the sum it's the quantity
It's totally possible to open up multiple channels in just one transaction: https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/open-multiple-lightning-channels/. Unless you believe that suddenly a billion people would want to adopt bitcoin as currency. Rather, I think this (if it happens), it will happen gradually.

With the technical experience, I'm a bit less concerned, every single day that passes a new generation becomes the majority
Lol. You think that the new generation will be capable of running full node 24/7, being aware of back ups and sending / receiving capacities? I'm a lot more concerned about that, and I'm pretty sure that's the reason people are encouraged to use lightning centrally.

Yeah pretty simple one, raise the block space in steps by doing a 4x by each havening,
I'd agree with a dynamically increased block size, just as someone else had proposed, but I'm looking forward to see how you will find consensus on that. It'll probably be easy if it's common sense / equilibrium, as you say.  Grin

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DooMAD
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October 15, 2023, 08:28:21 AM
Merited by taufik123 (1)
 #44

no one should advocate everyone drop the bitcoin network and all move over to a single crap insecure bottlenecked buggy subnetwork proported as being "the solution"

Strawman.  You are the only one who claims this and you are once again lying.  No one in their right mind is saying everyone should stop using the base layer altogether.  People are simply suggesting there are more cost-effective ways to transact.  Please provide a direct quote to support your assertions.  If you are unable to do so, then withdraw your misleading remarks.

I'm tired of your flagrant misrepresentations of the situation.


there must be a multi-effort approach

There is.  You just won't acknowledge it because none of the things being worked on conform to your (decidedly narrow) definition of "development".


the next part is bitcoin should not become the sole utility for CEX reserve swaps. those CEX can do reserve swaps on their own subnetwork. whereby the onchain utility is expanded for those that want to withdraw/close session to hoard longterm independently using lean transactions to allow many many thousands per block to hoard long term securely.

And your plan to achieve this without asking for others to pay for it is...?

Oh, I see, you still want other people to bear the cost of more transactions and you haven't had a single original thought in your head for how to make that sound more palatable.  So you just offer complaints and not genuine scaling solutions.  Your only "solution" is (and has always been) those securing the network must carry a heavier burden in order that those who don't secure the network can pay less.  I'm sure that all sounds very noble to your socialist tendencies.  But in practice, the other people who exist on this network, the ones you are consistently at odds with, are not finding that approach very enticing.  

There was a rather big debate about it in the community if you recall.   Roll Eyes

And you lost that debate.  You're still losing it now.  We moved forward with a different approach.

And sure, you're going to attack me for pointing it out again, but the simple fact is that you're literally a one-trick-pony.  You have nothing new to offer.  Just repeating the same, tired, failed, whiny arguments over and over.


im not just suggesting "bigger blocks" its about better utility of blocks, its about fixing the rules that allow untransactional bloat. its about not penalising all users in a tx fee war but having rules that penalise spammers the most

Yes, you aren't solely advocating socialism.  You're also advocating totalitarianism, where only you are fit to judge what is or isn't an "acceptable" use of the blockchain.  If someone is making transactions that don't fit your criteria, you would take away their freedom to do it.

Again, you can attack me for pointing it out (and no doubt you will).  But it doesn't make it any less true.

My stance is that Bitcoin is permissionless.  Everyone can do what they want if they can find a way to do it within the framework of the consensus rules.  I also believe there is a choice between "cheap" and "secure".  Everyone naturally wants both, but that's difficult to maintain over the long term.  Eventually, compromises need to be made.  Everyone gets to make an informed choice each and every time they transact as to whether or not they're going to take the cheaper route, off-chain, or the more secure route, on-chain.  That way, no one needs to make demands of others to carry a greater burden.

It's the most reasonable and pragmatic approach offered so far.  So it's the one we're continuing with.  If anyone has any better ideas, please make them known.

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