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Author Topic: RingWallet - Wearable Hardware Wallet  (Read 1002 times)
larry_vw_1955
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June 05, 2024, 04:34:38 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2024, 04:45:27 AM by larry_vw_1955
 #61



If you made it this far - we're offering you a 15% discount on the ring bringing the total price including shipping and taxes to $84 (including 4 Ace Cards). Sign up now on http://ringwallet.com/


I'm afraid this Ring wallet suffers from a similar problem that other hardware wallets seem to suffer from. A high price.

Website says 84 Euros not US dollars.

I would never pay $90 for some brand new hardware wallet. First of all because I wouldn't even know if all the bugs had been ironed out of its software. No way I could trust it except with very small amounts most likely. Just how it is.

Nice concept though. Carrying an entire hardware wallet on your finger. Using your phone to do transactions and it doesn't even need a battery. Pretty cool.

Also, i can't trust a device where if their app disappeared from the "app store" because of going out of business their device becomes a brick. I've seen that happen with other types of hardware...you say its' open source or something. well, i dont know if that would mean anything... Lips sealed

but you and your partner seem to have the patience of a saint in dealing with some of the people in this thread. that's for sure!

just to give you an idea, i'm looking for a hardware wallet in the $9.99 price range.

  
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June 05, 2024, 01:14:35 PM
Merited by larry_vw_1955 (1)
 #62



If you made it this far - we're offering you a 15% discount on the ring bringing the total price including shipping and taxes to $84 (including 4 Ace Cards). Sign up now on http://ringwallet.com/
I'm afraid this Ring wallet suffers from a similar problem that other hardware wallets seem to suffer from. A high price.

Website says 84 Euros not US dollars.

I would never pay $90 for some brand new hardware wallet. First of all because I wouldn't even know if all the bugs had been ironed out of its software. No way I could trust it except with very small amounts most likely. Just how it is.

Nice concept though. Carrying an entire hardware wallet on your finger. Using your phone to do transactions and it doesn't even need a battery. Pretty cool.

Also, i can't trust a device where if their app disappeared from the "app store" because of going out of business their device becomes a brick. I've seen that happen with other types of hardware...you say its' open source or something. well, i dont know if that would mean anything... Lips sealed

but you and your partner seem to have the patience of a saint in dealing with some of the people in this thread. that's for sure!

just to give you an idea, i'm looking for a hardware wallet in the $9.99 price range.

Hey, first of all thanks for the kind words. Let me answer what you wrote:

1. Regarding currency, that's based on location, so if you're in US it's $ and if you're in Europe it's Euros. The price includes shipping and VAT as well so hence why it's a bit higher since of that price, depending on exact VAT (as it differs from country to country) of the 84 eur you get left with 66-71 eur and then you have to subtract shipping which is included as well which is ±8 eur on average for EU countries so about 58-63eur of which we then subtract product cost. Most providers show you a price and then on checkout they add VAT and shipping on top but we didn't really want to do that which is why we included it in price.
2. In general, I am aware that it is not the cheapest solution on the market. To be honest, since we're still a startup we don't have the same capacity of manufacturing as many pieces in a single batch and so we have a higher cost of product / item. Over time, as we grow and are able to manufacture larger and larger batches my hope is to be able to eventually reduce the price.

Now regarding the app disappearing from the app store because the company goes out of business, that's honestly a legitimate concern and it's one of the reasons why we're considering publishing everything open-source (including the apps), in which case even if the company goes out of business people would just be able to for example run their own apk and recover their wallets and move them somewhere else. Even if we end up deciding to publish it as source-available, you would still be able to do that since the company would have gone out of business in your example. With that said, we are gravitating more towards open-source at this moment either way and we're going to take a final decision in the coming weeks and announce it here.

Regarding the price range of the wallet you're looking for, I'm not sure if something like that exists at this moment. In the future we do have in plan of creating a more affordable option as well but in all honesty I don't think we could ever reach a $10 price range. If you include shipping then that's like 50-80% of the price, even if we disregard VAT and etc but even if you don't include shipping and VAT, I'm not sure if you can realistically manufacture a secure hardware wallet at that price. There may be a chance to do something in the $25-30 range if you go with something like a card since it's a simpler form factor but not sure if $10 is achievable in the very near future. Maybe years ahead as technology improves and production costs go down.
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June 05, 2024, 05:24:50 PM
 #63

i'm looking for a hardware wallet in the $9.99 price range.
Good luck finding anything to buy for $9.99, I think you are going to need time travel machine for that  Roll Eyes
Meanwhile all you can buy is cheap Chinese watches on Aliexpress for that price, or maybe bunch of bananas , bread, paper and a pencil.
It's 2024.

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CODE200
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June 05, 2024, 11:51:00 PM
 #64

Really cool concept but the potentials of attacks against people that are wearing these type of jewelry is definitely concerning, maybe if there's a way to customize the ring so it's totally not easily seen as something identifiable to be your product might be a big help, what I mean is that people should be able to add modifications to it that would make it look like any other ring on someone's finger, the lack of customization in my opinion is a security flaw because as what RickDecard, once it becomes a mainstream thing, scammers and people that have ill intentions will definitely try to do something about it once they recognize the ring.
larry_vw_1955
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June 06, 2024, 12:21:48 AM
 #65


Hey, first of all thanks for the kind words. Let me answer what you wrote:
thanks for trying to bring an innovating bitcoin product to market.

Quote
Now regarding the app disappearing from the app store because the company goes out of business, that's honestly a legitimate concern and it's one of the reasons why we're considering publishing everything open-source (including the apps), in which case even if the company goes out of business people would just be able to for example run their own apk and recover their wallets and move them somewhere else.

why would they need to do that? couldn't they just keep using the ringwallet like always? or is there some type of server infrastructure that would no longer exist if the company went out of businesses and thus nothing would work anymore?  Shocked

Quote
Even if we end up deciding to publish it as source-available, you would still be able to do that since the company would have gone out of business in your example. With that said, we are gravitating more towards open-source at this moment either way and we're going to take a final decision in the coming weeks and announce it here.
open source is better since then people can do bug fixes and things. even if the company is no longer around. and they can do it without any fear of repercussion.

Quote
There may be a chance to do something in the $25-30 range if you go with something like a card since it's a simpler form factor but not sure if $10 is achievable in the very near future. Maybe years ahead as technology improves and production costs go down.
$25 would be reasonable. since i think the conveniences of not having to plug something into a computer or recharge a battery are very big benefits plus the form factor is tiny you can take it anywhere. i would love to have something like that which i can interact with through my phone too.

but i'm confused about the "battery life" you say on the website it is 10 years. does it really even have a battery inside the ring? and what happens once that battery dies, it can't be replaced?

are you sure there are no software bugs that make it vulnerable to losing funds? big question right? any new product in this niche it seems like they all go through a process where people find bugs/exploits which then have to be fixed and ineviitably someone lost funds because of that exploit.

Good luck finding anything to buy for $9.99, I think you are going to need time travel machine for that  Roll Eyes
there was hardware wallet that used to sell for $9.99. but it had to be plugged into a usb port.
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June 20, 2024, 08:54:20 AM
Merited by PowerGlove (3), larry_vw_1955 (1)
 #66

Hi guys, sorry for being inactive for so long but I've had some of the worst 2 weeks of my life. I found out my dog has terminal cancer which made him slowly lose his ability to walk or basically do anything, so I had to take care of him and carry him outside so he could actually go to the bathroom. He was a heavy dog, around 110 pounds. Unfortunately, he has already died. He was 12 and we did try all possible treatments but it was just too advanced. He had had surgery a couple months back to remove a tumour and thought he was fine but unfortunately he wasn't. I buried him on Monday and today was pretty much the first day I felt capable of coming and replying here.

So first of all, since this has been a discussion for a long time on this thread, the US company is out, it's actually been out for the past 2 weeks since the 6th of June, I just didn't have the energy or mindspace to come and post here. I'm honestly not sure how to link it here but the company is called Ringwallet Inc; registered as a C-Corp, in Delaware, with file number 3858518. I think you can search for it on the department of state website of delaware. So Vod, the company is out, it's actually been out for 2 weeks since I said it would, the filings should prove this as well, I honestly just didn't have the energy for this. So I would appreciate if you can remove the trustpilot rating as you said you would.

Moving beyond that

Really cool concept but the potentials of attacks against people that are wearing these type of jewelry is definitely concerning, maybe if there's a way to customize the ring so it's totally not easily seen as something identifiable to be your product might be a big help, what I mean is that people should be able to add modifications to it that would make it look like any other ring on someone's finger, the lack of customization in my opinion is a security flaw because as what RickDecard, once it becomes a mainstream thing, scammers and people that have ill intentions will definitely try to do something about it once they recognize the ring.

For now the ring has no recognisable elements anywhere on the ring, theres's a simple pictogram logo on the inside of it with the initials "rw" and that's it. In the future we may consider offering customisations but for now at least that's not viable because it would be a manufacturing nightmare.

thanks for trying to bring an innovating bitcoin product to market.

Thanks

why would they need to do that? couldn't they just keep using the ringwallet like always? or is there some type of server infrastructure that would no longer exist if the company went out of businesses and thus nothing would work anymore?  Shocked

They could, but they would need some sort of UI to interact with the ring. Assuming the company goes out of business and the app isn't in google store anymore then you'd need to download your own apk so you can have the UI and interact with it.

Even if we end up deciding to publish it as source-available, you would still be able to do that since the company would have gone out of business in your example. With that said, we are gravitating more towards open-source at this moment either way and we're going to take a final decision in the coming weeks and announce it here.
open source is better since then people can do bug fixes and things. even if the company is no longer around. and they can do it without any fear of repercussion.

On that note, the rest of the team has had time to talk in the past 2 weeks and for now the consensus seems to be that we'll be publishing everything (the apps, the ring firmware etc) as open-source (not source-available). The exact time hasn't been decided but it will be sometime before delivery of the first batch of products.

$25 would be reasonable. since i think the conveniences of not having to plug something into a computer or recharge a battery are very big benefits plus the form factor is tiny you can take it anywhere. i would love to have something like that which i can interact with through my phone too.

but i'm confused about the "battery life" you say on the website it is 10 years. does it really even have a battery inside the ring? and what happens once that battery dies, it can't be replaced?

are you sure there are no software bugs that make it vulnerable to losing funds? big question right? any new product in this niche it seems like they all go through a process where people find bugs/exploits which then have to be fixed and ineviitably someone lost funds because of that exploit.

Yeah so regarding the first thing, about the 25$ wallet, it is our wish to have a very cheap affordable wallet, but please be aware that this is probably at least 6+ months away as first we want to launch the ring and make sure everything works well before moving on to other things.

There is no battery in the ring, the battery life of 10 years on the website is moreso due to legal requirements, in the sense that we need to include a minimum life expectancy of the product if used in normal conditions (i.e. not setting it on fire, diving with it at 200m etc) so that's what 10 years means, the minimum lifespan of the product. In theory, the chip itself is graded for a minimum lifespan of 20 years and can last even longer than that but we wanted to be on the safe side.

Regarding software bugs, obviously we did our best to make sure there's no software bugs, but even if they are there should be maybe UI bugs or things like that, not bugs that can make you lose your funds. Of course it's a new product but as I said above, at the end of the day, we figured that if we publish everything open-source then 1. people can just check the code themselves and if they find anything wrong message us and 2. will hopefully help in building some reputation


So anyway guys, that's pretty much it for the above. In terms of other updates, we've had a physical event in Cluj sometime last week; I didn't attend because was taking care of my dog in his last days but Christian our CMO did attend. We are continuing our fundraising round and I am hopeful it will be done in <60 days from now and moving forward we will slowly start sending out free rings to influencers and etc. We are now waiting on a batch of rings to come and have reached the final design for the boxes and waiting for them as well. Other than that, we should be publishing the apps in the app stores in the coming weeks as well, waiting for final approvals for developer accounts.

Anyway, I'll try to keep all of you updated but now that I've posted this I'm probably going to take a few more days for myself until I come back and answer more questions just to get in a better state of mind after the entire thing because he's been my dog for 12 years and in all honesty I still kind of feel like shit. Hope the above answers all the questions. Cheers.
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June 20, 2024, 09:31:55 AM
 #67

Hey,

Sorry to hear hear that.

You can take as much time off for yourself as needed. Mental health comes first. The business isn't important by comparison.

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larry_vw_1955
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June 21, 2024, 02:00:03 AM
 #68



Anyway, I'll try to keep all of you updated but now that I've posted this I'm probably going to take a few more days for myself until I come back and answer more questions just to get in a better state of mind after the entire thing because he's been my dog for 12 years and in all honesty I still kind of feel like shit. Hope the above answers all the questions. Cheers.

you really do seem dedicated to great customer service and a great affordable product. i'm not so knowledgeable about all the competitors but i think you're going to have them beat on those two fronts for sure. good luck because i think you're going to have a winner here.  Cheesy
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June 22, 2024, 08:49:01 PM
 #69

So first of all, since this has been a discussion for a long time on this thread, the US company is out, it's actually been out for the past 2 weeks since the 6th of June, I just didn't have the energy or mindspace to come and post here. I'm honestly not sure how to link it here but the company is called Ringwallet Inc; registered as a C-Corp, in Delaware, with file number 3858518. I think you can search for it on the department of state website of delaware. So Vod, the company is out, it's actually been out for 2 weeks since I said it would, the filings should prove this as well, I honestly just didn't have the energy for this. So I would appreciate if you can remove the trustpilot rating as you said you would.

Hey, sorry to hear about your loss.  I recently lost a cat to cancer.  Sad

I hate to tell you this, but you got scammed (common in Delaware).   The company you paid just set up a new local corporation.   It shares the same name as you, but it is not related to your home corporation in any way.   Sad

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June 23, 2024, 09:49:02 AM
 #70

So first of all, since this has been a discussion for a long time on this thread, the US company is out, it's actually been out for the past 2 weeks since the 6th of June, I just didn't have the energy or mindspace to come and post here. I'm honestly not sure how to link it here but the company is called Ringwallet Inc; registered as a C-Corp, in Delaware, with file number 3858518. I think you can search for it on the department of state website of delaware. So Vod, the company is out, it's actually been out for 2 weeks since I said it would, the filings should prove this as well, I honestly just didn't have the energy for this. So I would appreciate if you can remove the trustpilot rating as you said you would.

Hey, sorry to hear about your loss.  I recently lost a cat to cancer.  Sad

I hate to tell you this, but you got scammed (common in Delaware).   The company you paid just set up a new local corporation.   It shares the same name as you, but it is not related to your home corporation in any way.   Sad

Hey, thanks for that, I appreciate, it genuinely sucks but hopefully it'll get better with time. And I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your cat. Hopefully they're both in a better place now.

We set up the company with Stripe Atlas, since it was one of the best options for non-US residents and was recommended by a founder friend. They have a lot of limitations though so yes now that the company is out we are working with a law firm to make the Romanian entity a subsidiary of the US entity. I just wanted to give an update on that since it was something I had previously promised to do. Atlas doesn't allow you to register a subsidiary upon incorporation, it also doesn't allow you to have more than 4 shareholders upon incorporation among other things so I had to create a large option pool and will now have to also allocate shares from the option pool to the other shareholders.

Anyway, I'm not sure if Delaware shows you this but if it does you should be able to see that shareholders are the same. I will also update after Romanian entity becomes a subsidiary.

In any case, I will come back and give updates about Ringwallet in this thread when new things happen. I'm now waiting on a larger batch of rings to arrive and then I think we'll do some videos using the app & ring and post them.
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June 26, 2024, 12:35:58 AM
 #71

Anyway, I'm not sure if Delaware shows you this but if it does you should be able to see that shareholders are the same. I will also update after Romanian entity becomes a subsidiary.

So you told the US government you were physically living in Delaware?     This will not turn out well.

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June 26, 2024, 10:29:30 AM
 #72

Anyway, I'm not sure if Delaware shows you this but if it does you should be able to see that shareholders are the same. I will also update after Romanian entity becomes a subsidiary.

So you told the US government you were physically living in Delaware?     This will not turn out well.

I don't know how you drew that conclusion. I said you can check to see the shareholders are the same, which they are. It's allowed for non-US residents to make a US company, in fact quite a large number of US startups are made by non-US residents. You don't need to be physically living in Delaware to create a company there, you need a business address to receive packages, checks and correspondence. That doesn't mean anyone claims to live at the business address nor is it a necessity to live there.

In fact Stripe Atlas is specifically made for non-US residents to create US companies because they help you through the entire process of creating a company with everything that it entails. 

In any case, as I have promised, I shared with you the US entity and as mentioned before I will continue to share updates here as they happen.
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June 26, 2024, 01:11:16 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #73

In any case, as I have promised, I shared with you the US entity and as mentioned before I will continue to share updates here as they happen.
I don't understand why did you have to complicate things with creating separate US entity for Ring wallet.
There are plenty of hardware wallet manufacturers that are based in Europe, some of them are Bitbox from Switzerland, Trezor from Czech Republic, Satochip from Belgium, and Ledger from France (via China).

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June 26, 2024, 05:52:55 PM
 #74

In any case, as I have promised, I shared with you the US entity and as mentioned before I will continue to share updates here as they happen.
I don't understand why did you have to complicate things with creating separate US entity for Ring wallet.
There are plenty of hardware wallet manufacturers that are based in Europe, some of them are Bitbox from Switzerland, Trezor from Czech Republic, Satochip from Belgium, and Ledger from France (via China).

I guess it might have something to do with the fact that the FBI is going hard on Americans who want to do anything with crypto and he may be trying to play it safe with two business entities.

Although that only started 2 months ago to be fair, so it wouldn't make much sense to me.

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.BLACKJACK ♠ FUN.
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June 26, 2024, 06:21:59 PM
 #75

I don't know how you drew that conclusion.

I believe you.

I said you can check to see the shareholders are the same, which they are. It's allowed for non-US residents to make a US company, in fact quite a large number of US startups are made by non-US residents. You don't need to be physically living in Delaware to create a company there, you need a business address to receive packages, checks and correspondence. That doesn't mean anyone claims to live at the business address nor is it a necessity to live there.

You either were scammed, or you know as much about this as you did about Kickstarter.   Domestic is a lot cheaper, but obviously illegal.  

Quote
RESIDENCY
Domestic means that this entity is domiciled in Delaware.
Foreign means that this entity is domiciled in another jurisdiction but registered/qualified to do business in Delaware
https://icis.corp.delaware.gov/Ecorp/FieldDesc.aspx#RESIDENCY



I don't understand why did you have to complicate things with creating separate US entity for Ring wallet.

It makes him appear more trustworthy, like when he posted all private messages between us, redacting non-PII for show - political.  Sad

His entire response chain has been reactive.   Hey, that's a good idea, or Yes, we will do that.    They should have had all the details in writing before they started promoting a heavy discount to purchase early.
 Hopefully my vigilance on this one will activate his alpha male brain and he'll develop these things just to prove me wrong!   I might even buy one!  Smiley

But right now, this is still vapourware waiting for funding and the owners have not been identified.


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June 26, 2024, 08:59:14 PM
 #76

In any case, as I have promised, I shared with you the US entity and as mentioned before I will continue to share updates here as they happen.
I don't understand why did you have to complicate things with creating separate US entity for Ring wallet.
There are plenty of hardware wallet manufacturers that are based in Europe, some of them are Bitbox from Switzerland, Trezor from Czech Republic, Satochip from Belgium, and Ledger from France (via China).

I guess it might have something to do with the fact that the FBI is going hard on Americans who want to do anything with crypto and he may be trying to play it safe with two business entities.

Although that only started 2 months ago to be fair, so it wouldn't make much sense to me.

Actually it's quite common. There are just things that are easier to do with a US based company if you are foreign. CC processing, dealing with taxes and such, insurance needs if any and so on.

Have dealt with a few foreign entities here in the US over the years I can how this might have helped them.

-Dave

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