Using bitcoin for transactions in country where it is illegal.

[Publictalk792]

In countries where cryptocurrency transactions are banned using bitcoins is risky. If problem arises court decision is unclear. Proving payment with cryptocurrency does not guarantee success as court might reject it due to its illegality. Courts aim for fairness considering individual circumstances and local laws. Outcome could go other way  favoring buyer or dismissing case or requiring further investigation. Court must balance law and justice making predictions difficult. Additionally property owner false claims may still result in consequences.

[Silberman]

In countries where cryptocurrency transactions are banned using bitcoins is risky. If problem arises court decision is unclear. Proving payment with cryptocurrency does not guarantee success as court might reject it due to its illegality. Courts aim for fairness considering individual circumstances and local laws. Outcome could go other way  favoring buyer or dismissing case or requiring further investigation. Court must balance law and justice making predictions difficult. Additionally property owner false claims may still result in consequences.

The law field is a very complex one so it is difficult to know what it may happen without a more specific example about where this may happen, after all if bitcoin besides being illegal to use for any transaction was not considered to be a valuable asset anyway, then the owner of the property being sold will have a massive advantage, as even if the bitcoin transactions could be corroborated to have happened, the court could say that no recognized asset was used for the purchase of the property, and that person could retain its property and the bitcoin that it was sent to them.

[HelliumZ]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

You should never enter into a Bitcoin transaction agreement with any party in a country that does not accept Bitcoin, i.e. where it would be considered a criminal offence.
If you want to do a business deal with a party, you must do the transaction in the local currency of that country, otherwise, if the transaction is done through Bitcoin, and if a party denies the transaction, then both parties will be punished in the legal trouble.

[Pandu Geddon]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

You should never enter into a Bitcoin transaction agreement with any party in a country that does not accept Bitcoin, i.e. where it would be considered a criminal offence.
If you want to do a business deal with a party, you must do the transaction in the local currency of that country, otherwise, if the transaction is done through Bitcoin, and if a party denies the transaction, then both parties will be punished in the legal trouble.

Business people with large transactions will definitely not make silly deals. property sellers can ask buyers to exchange their Bitcoins for the agreed currency and valid in their country. that's what will probably happen.

But if the agreement has been made and the transaction is successful for both parties, what evidence will actually strengthen the case brought to court for legal proceedings? of course, because something is illegal, both of them will not make written evidence of the sale and purchase transaction using Bitcoin as a means of payment. they will make proof of payment using legal currency.

[Cryptomultiplier]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

You should never enter into a Bitcoin transaction agreement with any party in a country that does not accept Bitcoin, i.e. where it would be considered a criminal offence.
If you want to do a business deal with a party, you must do the transaction in the local currency of that country, otherwise, if the transaction is done through Bitcoin, and if a party denies the transaction, then both parties will be punished in the legal trouble.

Business people with large transactions will definitely not make silly deals. property sellers can ask buyers to exchange their Bitcoins for the agreed currency and valid in their country. that's what will probably happen.

But if the agreement has been made and the transaction is successful for both parties, what evidence will actually strengthen the case brought to court for legal proceedings? of course, because something is illegal, both of them will not make written evidence of the sale and purchase transaction using Bitcoin as a means of payment. they will make proof of payment using legal currency.

Am sure that both parties wouldn't want to get arrested in a country where Bitcoin is banned and people get arrested for having or trading cryptocurrency or have apps for such crypto business.

Am sure that such kind of Bitcoin transaction that is even supposed to be a secret deal, will first receive confirmation of being credited the said amount of Bitcoin before the document of property is handed over.
There is so much formality these days mostly as it revolves around real estate business and documents such as C of O has to be an inclusive evidence as proof of ownership while the receipt of payment has to be made and documented as well for future reference.
In short, am sure that only wise and knowledgeable persons can make a deal like this and not have a dispute, because both parties has got their end to deal with.

[Marvell1]

I expect that the outcome of the trial will vary from country to country depending on the laws and the judge's legal view of the issue. This is a difficult legal controversy.

Of course, each country will have different laws but in this case I think both will be investigated and both will be punished according to the law.

For me, I expect that if the country bans cryptocurrencies, proof of payment in cryptocurrency will not be accepted because first, it is not recognized and second, because he violated the law by using cryptocurrencies.

In this case: you mean the seller is almost not violating anything while he is the recipient of the bitcoin and denies it, and the buyer will be liable because he used the bitcoin?

Or there may be another option that the judge will accept proof of payment in cryptocurrency but punish the buyer because he violated the law by using cryptocurrencies.

What about the seller? Will he be fined? Buyers will certainly be fined for breaking the law by using bitcoin, but sellers cannot escape punishment either because the transaction cannot be completed without both parties reaching an agreement. It is clear that the seller is also involved in bitcoin trading and he is also breaking the law.

In any case, neither of them will end up well, so it's best not to break the law in the first place, especially when we're involved in high-value transactions.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it?

Please don't make the mistake of basing such a crucial decision on an internet forum, especially from advice given by total strangers. Consult a qualified lawyer instead. If Bitcoin is illegal in your country, avoid using it for any purchases. Even in countries where Bitcoin is legal, buying property with it doesn't make much sense. The reason is the taxman. You'll likely be creating a complicated situation with tax authorities by purchasing property with a non-legal tender.

[Mame89]

You should never enter into a Bitcoin transaction agreement with any party in a country that does not accept Bitcoin, i.e. where it would be considered a criminal offence.
If you want to do a business deal with a party, you must do the transaction in the local currency of that country, otherwise, if the transaction is done through Bitcoin, and if a party denies the transaction, then both parties will be punished in the legal trouble.

Yes, that's right. Indeed, as good citizens we must obey the rules in the country where we are or the country we visit. Although bitcoin transactions are carried out with the consent of both parties, if the country prohibits transactions with bitcoin, it is better not to do it. because this is the same as a drug transaction, both parties agree but the country prohibits it, then it will be a criminal act and can be arrested. It would be wiser for us to use legal local currency for transactions.

In my country there was an incident of a transaction using crypto and both parties were eventually arrested. sometimes there are people like this who make the crypto world bad, as if crypto is a crime so that it is hated by the country that has banned it as a means of transaction. So it is wise to use crypto properly.

This is a case that happened in my country.
https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasional/20230530135954-12-955787/polda-bali-tangkap-pengelola-rental-mobil-layani-transaksi-kripto

[Abiky]

OP should forget about big purchases like houses and expensive cars because his money comes from an illegal asset in his country. But no one can stop him from paying individuals in bitcoin and receiving goods and services in return. Also, no one can stop him from exchanging his bitcoin to fiat and using the cash however he sees fit. 

Of course. Nothing can stop him. But what if he deals with someone who's an undercover cop or government agent? They he'd be "screwed" for good. The risk is simply not worth it. I'm talking about meeting someone physically to make a deal. Online, though, it's another story. If the OP is careful enough not to disclose his personal info, he'll be safe. With Bitcoin adoption rising worldwide, I'm certain countries who once rejected it, will embrace it in the long run. As long as they're able to tax BTC effectively, nothing else matters.

[Swordsoffreedom]

You should never enter into a Bitcoin transaction agreement with any party in a country that does not accept Bitcoin, i.e. where it would be considered a criminal offence.
If you want to do a business deal with a party, you must do the transaction in the local currency of that country, otherwise, if the transaction is done through Bitcoin, and if a party denies the transaction, then both parties will be punished in the legal trouble.

Yes, that's right. Indeed, as good citizens we must obey the rules in the country where we are or the country we visit. Although bitcoin transactions are carried out with the consent of both parties, if the country prohibits transactions with bitcoin, it is better not to do it. because this is the same as a drug transaction, both parties agree but the country prohibits it, then it will be a criminal act and can be arrested. It would be wiser for us to use legal local currency for transactions.

In my country there was an incident of a transaction using crypto and both parties were eventually arrested. sometimes there are people like this who make the crypto world bad, as if crypto is a crime so that it is hated by the country that has banned it as a means of transaction. So it is wise to use crypto properly.

This is a case that happened in my country.
https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasional/20230530135954-12-955787/polda-bali-tangkap-pengelola-rental-mobil-layani-transaksi-kripto

If we are really good citizens, we will not use, not invest in bitcoin when it is considered illegal in our country. We have not been good citizens in the first place by using bitcoin and even using it to evade taxes.

If our country bans bitcoin, we better avoid anything that is considered illegal and that is the only way to protect ourselves. Don't expect the law to protect or condone our behavior when we know the law but still intentionally break it.

As of now, not many countries accept bitcoin as a currency or payment method, it would be a bad idea to use it as a currency and expect the government to protect us. We should think about the consequences of the problem before doing anything that is considered illegal in our country.

[MusaMohamed]

If we are really good citizens, we will not use, not invest in bitcoin when it is considered illegal in our country. We have not been good citizens in the first place by using bitcoin and even using it to evade taxes.

If our country bans bitcoin, we better avoid anything that is considered illegal and that is the only way to protect ourselves. Don't expect the law to protect or condone our behavior when we know the law but still intentionally break it.

Governments don't care about us, don't serve us, but Bitcoin serves us from its root. So between Bitcoin and government, I will choose Bitcoin but I have to research on how to purchase Bitcoin, store it, and use it in a safe method, to avoid problems with governments legally.

If I can find good method to do it, why do I ignore a very good opportunity with Bitcoin?

It's what's happening around the world, with exponential growth of Bitcoin users with time.

Bitcoin adoption S-curve

So now everyone is asking when. This is also a well known phenomena via the adoption S-curve.

16% is early majority, 50% is late majority. Wealth management is somewhere in this sector.

So figure out when BTC adoption enters 16%-50% world adoption based on the yellow line.

[Pmalek]

@Abiky

I wouldn't worry about meeting a cop or government agent for a bitcoin deal. Most countries don't have the time or resources to set up such operations. And they are limited with manpower. That's more a thing from movies.

I can see from OP's post history that he posts in the Nigerian local. Let's assume he is Nigerian. It isn't exactly an economic superpower in the world. Their government agencies have bigger fish to fry than catching bitcoin traders in the act. Unless, of course, we are talking about huge sums of money.

[fuguebtc]

@Abiky

I wouldn't worry about meeting a cop or government agent for a bitcoin deal. Most countries don't have the time or resources to set up such operations. And they are limited with manpower. That's more a thing from movies.

I can see from OP's post history that he posts in the Nigerian local. Let's assume he is Nigerian. It isn't exactly an economic superpower in the world. Their government agencies have bigger fish to fry than catching bitcoin traders in the act. Unless, of course, we are talking about huge sums of money.

That only happens unless we are considered suspects and a danger that has long been on the government's radar . But if we were just ordinary citizens, no government would have the time or manpower to do those things .  No government would spend time creating traps to harm their citizens when we are just ordinary people, the government is not good but we don't need to think of them as that bad .

If I remember correctly bitcoin is not illegal in Nigeria, the Nigerian government lifted the bitcoin ban last year .  Although it is not recognized as legal currency, it is not considered illegal either.



https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerian-central-bank-lifts-ban-crypto-trading-2023-12-23/

[tygeade]

The answer to this question will depend on how the law prohibiting bitcoin is written. But in general, in cases where the government declares bitcoin illegal, they will punish the person who used bitcoin to buy the house and they will also punish the person who accepted bitcoin as a means of payment for the house they were selling. And the government will seize the bitcoin and the house will also be seized if the person who received the bitcoins used the bitcoin. For example, if each house cost 9 bitcoins and the person did not use the 9 bitcoins, then the government will only seize the 9 bitcoins and will not seize the house.

Here we were talking about the issue of purchase-sale documents. but I want to add here that when people are getting involved in shady transactions, they don't use this method, they accept to be transferred the bitcoin and then make a document in which they are donating the house, in this case the person who paid in bitcoin appears to be just a beneficiary of the donation of the house and the government doesn't know that the house was paid for in bitcoin

We need to remember the fact of people getting p2p trades for shady coins as well. Like how do you think they can turn stolen bitcoins into cash without getting caught by the government? They use p2p for this transaction, and let the other person take the fall if they have to. They are doing something illegal anyways, and they are laundering their money this way basically, in the crypto world at least.

The end result would be, you see a deal where someone offers 5% even 10% discount, you think there is a great deal, you take the deal, they accept to go first, and actually do send the money to you, then you feel better about it and give them your cash, a bit time later law knocks on your door and asks you where you got it lol. So always be careful because anything could happen with any purchase, you are not going to get great deal out of this and you should be focusing on how you could make any document legit so you could show the law enforcement or the court if anything happens.

[Wakate]

It will not be advisable to make transactions in bitcoin within a country where cryptocurrency transactions are illegal by the law. But Imagine this scenario that someone has been using their bitcoins for transaction secretly successfully, and then one day decides to use the bitcoin that they have to make payment for something like a property to the owner of the property, If there is this kind of problem for instance where the owner of the property decides to claim that they did not receive any money in bitcoin, and the case is taken to a law court, what do you think the outcome of the case will be?
If proofs of payment are provided but in cryptocurrency, do you think the court will consider it even though transactions are tagged illegal with it? or will the case be thrown out and the owner of the property with the false claim of not receiving the money be allowed to go freely?

Thisjis a funny scenario and I don't think it can be attempted anywhere. Once something is banned in a country, there is no way the government will want to hear anything about it because it can be seen as a big offense. Reporting such a case to the police can even make the person that make the transaction to end up in jail. For cryptocurrency to be banned in a particular country, I believe their is a penalty for such a person and the government would not want to look into such a matter because it compromised the law that is guiding every citizens of such country. If something like this ever happens, the government can investigate the matter and send the both patties to prison for this.

[Baki202]

In countries where cryptocurrency transactions are banned using bitcoins is risky. If problem arises court decision is unclear. Proving payment with cryptocurrency does not guarantee success as court might reject it due to its illegality. Courts aim for fairness considering individual circumstances and local laws. Outcome could go other way  favoring buyer or dismissing case or requiring further investigation. Court must balance law and justice making predictions difficult. Additionally property owner false claims may still result in consequences.

Anything that has to do with legality you have to take it very seriously and if it's about bitcoin been illegal In some countries I think trading it might not be the problem for spending it as a currency might just be another new generational problem that might come up upon you because the country already have a recognized currency when it goes to exchange of goods and services and the law might just end up punishing the victim since every country have their own police's and the rest it will be better to just follow it, and I know trading bitcoin they won't stop but going beyond that. The court might dismiss when they know it's not that relevant because you need permit to spend an alternative currency by the government which is not recognized then the person have their self to blame, know the law and know what to avoid.

[Abiky]

@Abiky

I wouldn't worry about meeting a cop or government agent for a bitcoin deal. Most countries don't have the time or resources to set up such operations. And they are limited with manpower. That's more a thing from movies.

I can see from OP's post history that he posts in the Nigerian local. Let's assume he is Nigerian. It isn't exactly an economic superpower in the world. Their government agencies have bigger fish to fry than catching bitcoin traders in the act. Unless, of course, we are talking about huge sums of money.

I guess you're right. If you keep a low profile, there's no reason for the government to be suspicious about you. Would they be stupid enough to waste resources on a random citizen? I don't think so. Unless you're flagged as a criminal, there should be no reason to be worried about making BTC transactions under the table.

I guess people living in autoritarian countries like China and Russia are already doing this. Eventually, these countries will end up embracing the revolution. All just to fill their pockets with money (taxes). Hopefully, Bitcoin fulfills its mission of decentralizing the economy before it's too late.