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Author Topic: In a case where we still have unbanked population!  (Read 627 times)
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June 23, 2025, 03:54:52 PM
 #61

Well, not impossible, just impractical for them. We're talking about this "unbanked" and where I've worked and seen, a simple mobile phone with GPRS (not smartphone, and not even 3g) has worked wonders. Perhaps if we can get Bitcoin to that stage, but even so as we discussed above, why would anyone get BTC when it's more of a savings and holding asset now (if we're beig honest).
Taking Bitcoin to a stage where you don't need a smartphone to carry out transactions will help to increase adoption. Some people who are not able to afford smartphones could take advantage of it. But the question will be how can someone who doesn't have money to buy a smartphone afford Bitcoin. Nevertheless, such technology will be a plus to the Bitcoin community.

You are right, most people who own Bitcoin want to benefit from its volatility and only a few want or use it for financial transactions.

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June 23, 2025, 05:50:55 PM
Merited by buwaytress (1)
 #62

We're talking about this "unbanked" and where I've worked and seen, a simple mobile phone with GPRS (not smartphone, and not even 3g) has worked wonders. Perhaps if we can get Bitcoin to that stage, [...]
Indeed an interesting question, independently of the current Bitcoin usage pattern as "store of value" (it could be useful even for this purpose).

Of course the challenge is to build an app which is light enough to fit on such a "feature phone" but on the other hand doesn't sacrifice the decentralization and censorship resistance. Programming a M-PESA style Bitcoin app with a centralized provider is trivial.

I've worked with Bitcoin libraries in Python which have very lightweight components for the wallet storage, more so if you port them to C++ or another lower level programming language. The problem is perhaps the cryptographic stuff, e.g. the process of generating a new key pair and associated address, because for this process you need entropy and I don't know if a GPRS phone could generate that on a high enough level in a short time. However, you could perhaps let such a process run for a prolonged time, the user could do that while they're recharging the phone.

IMO technically it should be possible. I've searched for "most lightweight bitcoin wallet" but didn't get really a good answer.

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June 23, 2025, 09:53:19 PM
 #63

in the US alone almost half of the population is unbanked:
https://coinlaw.io/unbanked-population-statistics/

Worldwide it should be around 60%

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June 24, 2025, 08:00:23 AM
 #64

Taking Bitcoin to a stage where you don't need a smartphone to carry out transactions will help to increase adoption. Some people who are not able to afford smartphones could take advantage of it. But the question will be how can someone who doesn't have money to buy a smartphone afford Bitcoin. Nevertheless, such technology will be a plus to the Bitcoin community.

You are right, most people who own Bitcoin want to benefit from its volatility and only a few want or use it for financial transactions.

That is one thing that is impossible and when someone can't afford a smartphone because they don't have the money then it is much more impossible for them to buy bitcoin in that condition.
Not to mention the way of use that doesn't involve a smartphone for the process of utilizing bitcoin itself and I am sure it takes the best ability for someone to be able to use it.
Some are ambitious to get bitcoin as an investment step because it is nothing more than creating financial freedom and it takes a consistent process in its implementation.

I am sure that almost most people are starting to realize this so even though they don't have a lot of money, people start making plans to get bitcoin and the limited capital they have can be adjusted to buy in much smaller amounts.
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June 24, 2025, 11:10:15 AM
 #65

It's possible that some enlightened young people in those rural area can be doing some p2p transaction among themselves but there's still a big challenges which is for the old people in those areas who run their trades every day, they might not be interested in Bitcoin because some of them are not even knowledgeable enough about app banking and transfers, who they want is payment in cash for every thing they sell. I grow up in a rural area so I know too well how this works there, the population of people doing business in my village then were old people of the 60s, 70s and 80s and their payment options alone is cash, it's just recently that most of them started adopting the Point of sale machine (POS) where customers pay with card. So, what am saying, it's very possible that the young people in that area can adopt Bitcoin but those old men and women running business in the one market will still ask you to pay in cash because they don't know about Bitcoin and they might not even be interested to know because of their age.
Despite of the advacned technologies some portion of the world populatoin is still unbanked which mean they don't have access to basic financial services like saving accounts. In developing regions billions of people face this issue which creates a barries to economic stablity. If people don't have access to banking people struggle to save securely or recieve daily wages. So these unbanked people mostly rely on cash which is risky and limit opportunities for growth. Reason is that people dont have enough financial knowledge and banking infrastructure in rural or undeserved areas. Financial education and systems should be prioritised so people could use mobile banking solutions which provide alternative solutions to traditional banking. For reducing poverty its essential to empower unbanked people in a world moving totally on digital economics.

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June 24, 2025, 11:34:07 AM
Merited by d5000 (2)
 #66

We're talking about this "unbanked" and where I've worked and seen, a simple mobile phone with GPRS (not smartphone, and not even 3g) has worked wonders. Perhaps if we can get Bitcoin to that stage, [...]
Indeed an interesting question, independently of the current Bitcoin usage pattern as "store of value" (it could be useful even for this purpose).

Of course the challenge is to build an app which is light enough to fit on such a "feature phone" but on the other hand doesn't sacrifice the decentralization and censorship resistance. Programming a M-PESA style Bitcoin app with a centralized provider is trivial.

I've worked with Bitcoin libraries in Python which have very lightweight components for the wallet storage, more so if you port them to C++ or another lower level programming language. The problem is perhaps the cryptographic stuff, e.g. the process of generating a new key pair and associated address, because for this process you need entropy and I don't know if a GPRS phone could generate that on a high enough level in a short time. However, you could perhaps let such a process run for a prolonged time, the user could do that while they're recharging the phone.

IMO technically it should be possible. I've searched for "most lightweight bitcoin wallet" but didn't get really a good answer.

I have to say it, maybe I said it too often, but the simplicity of M-pesa amazed me almost 20 years ago when I first saw. It still did 10 years ago, when I was STILL using a Nokia, while my peers were using even cheaper $5 second-hand Chinese rip phones. That you could pay with a free sms to buy a small packet of single-use shampoo on the streets or a cigarette (yes, a single cigarette) each costing less than $0.01... without any understanding necessary of how it really worked? That's how you serve the unbanked. (Although by that time some places charged a small fee and I understand these fees have become higher)

So to my technologically unconscious mind, and forgive my inaccuracies but it would appear that if you took all that work and asked the phone only to do the minimal required... perhaps a mesh network where all phones shared some of that computing power when on charging? I know it's really dumb to always think back on mesh but I saw how it worked wonders in areas with a lot of devices but very low capacity for range and bandwidth, could the same not be done in this way?

But yes, even an mpesa style Bitcoin app is trivial, but the side question remains, why go for BTC when you just stick with your pesas for almost free or sometimes free for instant payment right?

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June 24, 2025, 04:35:47 PM
 #67

So to my technologically unconscious mind, and forgive my inaccuracies but it would appear that if you took all that work and asked the phone only to do the minimal required... perhaps a mesh network where all phones shared some of that computing power when on charging?
The bandwidth would probably not be the main challenge; almost everything related to block chain verification could be done by a provider, only your keys should be managed on your device, and computational power of a typical 2010s feature phone is more than enough for that. AI (Gemini) agreed with me that entropy indeed is the main challenge. Smiley But a mesh network could perhaps have its place in that puzzle, as a better source of entropy than the network activity of a single device. Just a thought ... However of course the problem is that other users of the same mesh network would perhaps get information about the private key calculation of other users, and perhaps benefit someone who connects to that mesh network to attack users. It would be necessary to design an algorithm where mesh network devices sent each other activity that could be used as a source of entropy without knowing which sources are being used really.

But yes, even an mpesa style Bitcoin app is trivial, but the side question remains, why go for BTC when you just stick with your pesas for almost free or sometimes free for instant payment right?
That's why I think a Bitcoin MPESA with a centralized provider would not make sense, but a Bitcoin Metamask-style wallet for feature phones would. Because Bitcoin would be used for other use cases where its censorship resistance and decentralization matter, like saving money without having to fear state confiscation (in poor dictatorships like Afghanistan or Eritrea that would be a real risk if you're not 100% aligned with the government). And thus there should be no single point of failure which could be compromised by the local government.

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June 24, 2025, 05:01:31 PM
 #68

in the US alone almost half of the population is unbanked:
https://coinlaw.io/unbanked-population-statistics/

Worldwide it should be around 60%
No matter how many unbanked people in America and around the world, Bitcoin isn't a complete solution because they still need the banking system to benefit from what they can achieve with Bitcoin. Bitcoin will become the ideal solution for these people when stores that accept Bitcoin payments become widespread. In principle, it's possible to interact with banked people through peer-to-peer methods, but this option has its limitations and risks.


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June 24, 2025, 07:38:33 PM
 #69

Bitcoin will become the ideal solution for these people when stores that accept Bitcoin payments become widespread. In principle, it's possible to interact with banked people through peer-to-peer methods, but this option has its limitations and risks.

Won't happen, other coins do that already and no switch to other networks are necessary.
Litecoin is faster, and has a way more convenient fee structure. 

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June 24, 2025, 07:40:28 PM
 #70

Bitcoin will become the ideal solution for these people when stores that accept Bitcoin payments become widespread. In principle, it's possible to interact with banked people through peer-to-peer methods, but this option has its limitations and risks.

Won't happen, other coins do that already and no switch to other networks are necessary.
Litecoin is faster, and has a way more convenient fee structure.  

yep the scrypt algo with ltc and doge merged mined is far superior than btc for p2p payments.


here is an example of why

this btc address has 2 deposits

https://btc3.trezor.io/address/3Mw9mvjTjWtpxhmctdLa5Awj5gGUbSChKV


they were about 0.0105  made 665 days ago value was 291 usd
and about         0.01052 made 204 days ago value was 1008 usd


who wants to pay money or coin whatever that can grow from 291 to 1008  in 465 days

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